hi
i've already posted in the subwoofer section but it went unnoticed...
new to the forum, we're going to build a sound system for reggae and dancehall, but we'd like to have a versatile rig that could handle also hip hop/electro and small live shows. Will be used mainly in a 15 x 15x 10 meters room.
we aim at something that could be moved easily enough, and packs a lot of sound for the size; lately it would be nice to add some more identical columns, so upgradability is a concern.
we look for a fairly clean , musical but punchy sound, with good vocal and high reproduction, and obviously a lot of bass within these boundaries.
we're thinking about 2 th 18 xoc1, loaded with b&c 18 sw 115, to cover something like 35 -90
then we want two strong kicks, but they have to be quite clean , 90 to 180 hz. could the es 18 work? Which driver should i consider? i could get a good price on some 18 sound
18LW2400, are these any good for providing some serious kick over the th18 loaded with the sw115?
lastly, and the more we go up the less defined are our ideas, for tops over 180 hz we thought about mt 121, don't know about drivers yet, but i have been looking at some b&c and bms compression highs. especially with this range i'm more interested in good definition than sheer spell, what would you suggest her as drivers? or other designs?
we think about running it on rented amps with a behringer dcx2496 in four way
configuration. or would you put a passive crossover on mt121and go 3 way?
i would like to keep it to one kind of box and speaker for each way to keep things clean and easy. is this stupid?
appreciate any consideration or suggestion, we have the money ready and are going crazy trying to sort this out. this and other sites have been very helpful and i'm surprised at the politeness of this kind of forums.
i've already posted in the subwoofer section but it went unnoticed...
new to the forum, we're going to build a sound system for reggae and dancehall, but we'd like to have a versatile rig that could handle also hip hop/electro and small live shows. Will be used mainly in a 15 x 15x 10 meters room.
we aim at something that could be moved easily enough, and packs a lot of sound for the size; lately it would be nice to add some more identical columns, so upgradability is a concern.
we look for a fairly clean , musical but punchy sound, with good vocal and high reproduction, and obviously a lot of bass within these boundaries.
we're thinking about 2 th 18 xoc1, loaded with b&c 18 sw 115, to cover something like 35 -90
then we want two strong kicks, but they have to be quite clean , 90 to 180 hz. could the es 18 work? Which driver should i consider? i could get a good price on some 18 sound
18LW2400, are these any good for providing some serious kick over the th18 loaded with the sw115?
lastly, and the more we go up the less defined are our ideas, for tops over 180 hz we thought about mt 121, don't know about drivers yet, but i have been looking at some b&c and bms compression highs. especially with this range i'm more interested in good definition than sheer spell, what would you suggest her as drivers? or other designs?
we think about running it on rented amps with a behringer dcx2496 in four way
configuration. or would you put a passive crossover on mt121and go 3 way?
i would like to keep it to one kind of box and speaker for each way to keep things clean and easy. is this stupid?
appreciate any consideration or suggestion, we have the money ready and are going crazy trying to sort this out. this and other sites have been very helpful and i'm surprised at the politeness of this kind of forums.
I haven't heard it, but the measurements look very promising. Although I'm not a fan of tapped or backloaded horns, they do offer the best measured frequency response and spl for their size, so by all means, go for it.
You're going about this the wrong way around. The subs are there to move as much air as possible, so 18"s make a lot of sense here. Given that this will be a 4-way system, a driver with MMS around 200gr, dual or tripple spiders, a FS of about 35Hz and as much power handling and x-max as possible are excellent for this.
For kick-duty you want something with a lower MMS and a hard suspension wich makes for a higher resonance frequency (>40Hz) - in other words, not the same driver as for the subs. Something like a Precision Devices PD.154 (e.g. in a HD15 setup) is tried and tested for exactly this. It also happens to be cheaper...
As long as the subs run in mono and the crossover is adequately sized, it shouldn't matter much. Although you can do more things (delay, eq-ing, filter-setups) with the active 4-way approach, most fidelity gains will go lost in the rooms you'll play in. So it's really a question of how "complicated" you are willing to make it for the sake of better sound that might or might not be audible in a real world environment.
Depending on what your ideals for sound and spl are, you will need more than one sub per side (preferebly in a mono stack). Same goes for kicks when harder electonic music styles are played (2 kicks /side + centerstack subs, minimum). But if the electronic music mainly consists of what's in the charts, you might as well just rent 15" BR subs and be done with it...nobody (except you) will care.
I have to add, though, that most people go 1-way bass instead of 2-way to make it possible do play smaller gigs. For this, you could go for the TH18 without kicks for non-electronic use (if they still sound acceptable in the upper octave). Hard-hitting kicks or fidelity, while always nice, are not really what reaggae and hip-hop people lust after - they love that trouser-shaking deep stuff.
In the end, you'll have to make the comprimise between a back- and bank-braking full-horn 4-way that can only be used from a certain size gig up and something more universal and profitable, but worse sounding.
At least that's my 2 cents. Take 'em with a grain of salt and pepper.
hi
thanks for your reply. in the meantime i spoke with two respected soundmen last night, and both told me the same thing you said, that 18 is too slow for a kick, go for a 15.
so i'm looking right now for 15 kick bin options to go between th18 and mt121, hd 15 or 215 are very common but we'd like to build something a little bigger to sit better between the other two and rise the mt121 enough. ideally 60cm wide and at least as tall.
about this
"i would like to keep it to one kind of box and speaker for each way to keep things clean and easy. is this stupid?"
i meant to say that, for example, i would like to use just CDs for highs, without overlapping other tweeters on the same frequencies.
about 3 way vs 4 way, i fear that going passive i will loose a lot of learning and fine tuning possibilities.
we will probably run this mainly in a single mono stack, dub style, or sub + kick mono stack and separated stereo heads.
almost settled to start away with 2 th18 with bec 18sw115 8 ohm and two mt121 with bec 12e32 and for cd bms 4554 or 4555, need to gather more info on the cd though.
kicks will follow as soon as possible...
thanks for your reply. in the meantime i spoke with two respected soundmen last night, and both told me the same thing you said, that 18 is too slow for a kick, go for a 15.
so i'm looking right now for 15 kick bin options to go between th18 and mt121, hd 15 or 215 are very common but we'd like to build something a little bigger to sit better between the other two and rise the mt121 enough. ideally 60cm wide and at least as tall.
about this
"i would like to keep it to one kind of box and speaker for each way to keep things clean and easy. is this stupid?"
i meant to say that, for example, i would like to use just CDs for highs, without overlapping other tweeters on the same frequencies.
about 3 way vs 4 way, i fear that going passive i will loose a lot of learning and fine tuning possibilities.
we will probably run this mainly in a single mono stack, dub style, or sub + kick mono stack and separated stereo heads.
almost settled to start away with 2 th18 with bec 18sw115 8 ohm and two mt121 with bec 12e32 and for cd bms 4554 or 4555, need to gather more info on the cd though.
kicks will follow as soon as possible...
hi
thinking about building two cubo kicks loaded with eminence kappa pro 15 a, any opinion?
also thinking of fitting mt 121 with 18s 12mb700 and bms 5455. any suggestion on horns for the cd?
thanks,
joh
thinking about building two cubo kicks loaded with eminence kappa pro 15 a, any opinion?
also thinking of fitting mt 121 with 18s 12mb700 and bms 5455. any suggestion on horns for the cd?
thanks,
joh
I think better drivers are available than that Eminence - the magnet has only a polepiece vent, which will lead to power compression if you're pushing high power for a long time.
For similar money (vs Eminence Kappa Pro 15A from the same supplier), you could have this:
Oberton 15MB700 700W 8 Ohm 15" Loudspeaker Driver 144.31
Which would, I expect, wipe the floor with the Eminence.
Chris
For similar money (vs Eminence Kappa Pro 15A from the same supplier), you could have this:
Oberton 15MB700 700W 8 Ohm 15" Loudspeaker Driver 144.31
Which would, I expect, wipe the floor with the Eminence.
Chris
hi chris,
thanks for your thoughts. the kappa pro 15a was one of the suggested drivers by the guy who designed cubo kick
"Designed around the 18Sound 15ND930. Other drivers that should work:
- Eminence Kappa Pro 15
- Faital Pro 15FH520
- Faital Pro 15FH500"
after your suggestion i'm looking at the other options - i'd like to use one of the suggested drivers.
i found a good deal on the 15d930 but they are 4 ohms version, and i planned to go with 4 ohm on the subs only and 8 ohm on the remaining drivers. any thoughts?
about the mt121 i'm considering now 18sound 12mb700, which i found at a good price and gives more watts than the b&c 12e32, coupled with bms 4550 and faital lth 102 horn
thanks for your thoughts. the kappa pro 15a was one of the suggested drivers by the guy who designed cubo kick
"Designed around the 18Sound 15ND930. Other drivers that should work:
- Eminence Kappa Pro 15
- Faital Pro 15FH520
- Faital Pro 15FH500"
after your suggestion i'm looking at the other options - i'd like to use one of the suggested drivers.
i found a good deal on the 15d930 but they are 4 ohms version, and i planned to go with 4 ohm on the subs only and 8 ohm on the remaining drivers. any thoughts?
about the mt121 i'm considering now 18sound 12mb700, which i found at a good price and gives more watts than the b&c 12e32, coupled with bms 4550 and faital lth 102 horn
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