This is my First DIY Project. Living in India hard to get good speakers for a given budget. I was looking to get 7.2.4 System for Home theater. But nothing good is available for a given budget. Finally decided to import JBL Studio 500 series speakers when they go on crazy discount and still it gonna cost me $4K including Shipping + Taxes. As I plan to DIY Sub anyways using Crown or Yamaha 2000W Amp and a decent 18" Driver that can handle that power.
I was thinking that instead of the JBL Studio 500 speakers which gonna cost me crazy $4K can I do better going DIY route. But the more research I do the more I am stuck on Crossover part which is the most complicated for DIY speakers. I can source in drivers for low cost but creating a crossover for the speakers is the hard part. And the thing is that this being HT+Music speakers I want them to be 3-way. So yes it is complex for my first project. Don't have budget to waste on making Prototypes etc. So it is either go for it all in or drop it to be safe.
If I had to create test prototypes and work it up that gonna be extra $500-1000 expenditure easy. Drivers themselves are around $450 for pair of speakers. So Crossover material gonna add to it as well. HDF Board too. Considering all this it gonna be expensive to test and waste money on it. So am unable to decide if I should take a shot at it or not.
I was thinking that instead of the JBL Studio 500 speakers which gonna cost me crazy $4K can I do better going DIY route. But the more research I do the more I am stuck on Crossover part which is the most complicated for DIY speakers. I can source in drivers for low cost but creating a crossover for the speakers is the hard part. And the thing is that this being HT+Music speakers I want them to be 3-way. So yes it is complex for my first project. Don't have budget to waste on making Prototypes etc. So it is either go for it all in or drop it to be safe.
If I had to create test prototypes and work it up that gonna be extra $500-1000 expenditure easy. Drivers themselves are around $450 for pair of speakers. So Crossover material gonna add to it as well. HDF Board too. Considering all this it gonna be expensive to test and waste money on it. So am unable to decide if I should take a shot at it or not.
If going DIY, you want an established, well reviewed and widely built project by a recognised designer something like:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/undefinition/home-theater-speakers
Geoff
https://www.sites.google.com/site/undefinition/home-theater-speakers
Geoff
Don't spend such a large amount of money. It is likely to be largely wasted. Drop it.
Even experts have real problems with designing three way speakers.
Start out with a simple, moderate cost system that has previously been successfully built
and tested. You may never need more. And loud does not equal long term quality.
Even experts have real problems with designing three way speakers.
Start out with a simple, moderate cost system that has previously been successfully built
and tested. You may never need more. And loud does not equal long term quality.
Buy the JBL, and if you want to try DIY, buy some cheap, well behaved drivers that have a smooth roll-off, and build some 2-way speakers.
You are correct that the crossover is the hardest part to get right. I spend weeks or more simulating and building different crossovers until I'm happy, and sometimes I give up and try different drivers because I can't achieve the sound I want.
As said above, a 3-way speaker can be very difficult to get right. I'd argue it takes a number of years to produce something respectable, so don't waste money on expensive drivers until you're confident you can get the best out of them.
I recently abandoned a 3-way speaker build because the drivers didn't measure anywhere near as well as the datasheets suggested. Obviously the baffle and internal reflections all affect the frequency response, so that has to be taken into consideration too.
You are correct that the crossover is the hardest part to get right. I spend weeks or more simulating and building different crossovers until I'm happy, and sometimes I give up and try different drivers because I can't achieve the sound I want.
As said above, a 3-way speaker can be very difficult to get right. I'd argue it takes a number of years to produce something respectable, so don't waste money on expensive drivers until you're confident you can get the best out of them.
I recently abandoned a 3-way speaker build because the drivers didn't measure anywhere near as well as the datasheets suggested. Obviously the baffle and internal reflections all affect the frequency response, so that has to be taken into consideration too.
Where are you located?
If you are in a big city, you may be able to find old speakers for sale.
Equipment wise, you have a frequency meter or scope?
Cross over circuits are available, but again 18" is a big size, how big is your listening area, what is the rating of your amps?
You want stereo or quad?
And add Sub?
There is a company called Peerless in Mumbai, Salcon in Delhi, Sonodyne of course. Norge is also there in Mumbai. They are well known, see their sites, and go from there.
If you are prepared to spend $4k, buy something else. Like a few shares, or whatever. No need to spend crazy money on speakers.
For a normal home, 20 W/channel is plenty. 2000 W is loud inside a cinema. That is rock concert stuff for an outdoor arena...
I talk RMS, not wild PMPO figures.
If you are in a big city, you may be able to find old speakers for sale.
Equipment wise, you have a frequency meter or scope?
Cross over circuits are available, but again 18" is a big size, how big is your listening area, what is the rating of your amps?
You want stereo or quad?
And add Sub?
There is a company called Peerless in Mumbai, Salcon in Delhi, Sonodyne of course. Norge is also there in Mumbai. They are well known, see their sites, and go from there.
If you are prepared to spend $4k, buy something else. Like a few shares, or whatever. No need to spend crazy money on speakers.
For a normal home, 20 W/channel is plenty. 2000 W is loud inside a cinema. That is rock concert stuff for an outdoor arena...
I talk RMS, not wild PMPO figures.
https://www.indiamart.com/peerless-fabrikkerne/loudspeaker-systems.html
Google Baba says closed...try.
Sonodyne are good, and this is Norge: https://www.norgeaudio.com/
Be aware that there are a lot of actors / poseurs who go by brand name, and silly money...
I heard that all the BMW cars in Dubai stopped working in heavy rain, because the tyres threw rain water on the engine controller.
Look it up, BMW are not as reputed as their advertisements.
Google Baba says closed...try.
Sonodyne are good, and this is Norge: https://www.norgeaudio.com/
Be aware that there are a lot of actors / poseurs who go by brand name, and silly money...
I heard that all the BMW cars in Dubai stopped working in heavy rain, because the tyres threw rain water on the engine controller.
Look it up, BMW are not as reputed as their advertisements.
I have been hitting my head at this. So taking the Passive crossover route gonna be waste. Guys what about throwing in Minidsp 2x4(Non HD) and 100-150W Modules. Am I thinking over the top. Will it not work or is that even a bad idea. Will bring down cost of Drivers. But is it viable.
18" Subwoofer is a different project which I will be doing anyways. Unless someone can recommend good SUB that can be enough to Fill Semi-open room and cost under $750.
International drivers are available from at least four sources in India - Audiofy (SB+Satori), Electro-carts (Tymphany), diyAudioCart (Dayton, Hivi, TB, Fountek and Mark Audio) and Audiocrafts (miscellanous drivers including some Scanspeak, and ability to source specifics on order).
Audiofy has complete SB kits with enclosure. Around the same as your budget.
Whether you use active or passive crossover, the design discipline remains the same. You can't stick 4th order slopes on an active crossover and call it a day. You still have to respect off-axis response, vertical acoustic center compensation and baffle step. It is no easier, and for many modern drivers a passive crossover usually 'clicks' easier with specific slopes in a passive network. The primary advantages of an active crossover are lower power requirements due to lack of step loss in inductors, and quick tweaking possibilities.
Audiofy has complete SB kits with enclosure. Around the same as your budget.
Whether you use active or passive crossover, the design discipline remains the same. You can't stick 4th order slopes on an active crossover and call it a day. You still have to respect off-axis response, vertical acoustic center compensation and baffle step. It is no easier, and for many modern drivers a passive crossover usually 'clicks' easier with specific slopes in a passive network. The primary advantages of an active crossover are lower power requirements due to lack of step loss in inductors, and quick tweaking possibilities.
Dear Vineet,
I think you need to start not by spending money, but by working out some basic things about what you want. Once these become available you could start looking at drivers, amplifiers, processing etc. For example, the following:
1) Your room size (and type), listening distance and required SPL at listening position.
2) Approximate power required per channel, assuming standard efficiency speakers (90-95dB/W).
Since you've identified yourself as a beginner (on a budget), I would advise against getting test/measurement equipment etc. And before you start to DIY, I would suggest that you listen to as many brands and models as you can, by visiting friends, relatives, showrooms etc. Also, note that it takes lots of room treatment and processing to replicate studio/cinema sound and simply buying some "JBL" is not going to be able to replace the benefits of these.
Further, for the subwoofer, a half-decent Class-D amplifier would suffice, saving you save some electricity bills while also allowing you to re-purpose the "Yamaha/Crown money" for something else (better drivers etc.).
Lastly, it maybe necessary to understand (before spending $4000) that you're unlikely to attain satisfaction in the first attempt (DIY or otherwise), especially if you're a person with high standards.
See room size is 17' in depth 10' in height but width is varying as it is 18' in width but the front half of the room is open on two sides which I plan to use thick acoustic curtains to close on both sides. Room is lets say 3060cu.ft. in volume. So it is decently big.
So am looking for at-least 90db/W+ efficiency. JBL speakers meet that requirement marginally.
Have heard many speakers already and know what to expect from what. I am beginner in DIY but otherwise I have decent experience with audio equipment.
And Budget for the SUB is different. Not mixing it into the $4000 budget of the Speakers. That is not an issue going for decently good Yamaha or Crown over cheap local alternatives. Want reliability.
Yes $4K is not enough for high standards which I like. But should be enough to get me something decent. Just trying to get best possible for that budget. Besides DIY the JBL Studio 500 series seems to be the best in that budget range. Just wanted to figure out that by taking the DIY route can I get a better deal.
300 sq ft approx. if we take 10 foot height.
And India, so no absorption, more cement surfaces.
Anything more than 200 watts in total on all the speakers is not needed.
Start from there.
And acoustic curtains can muffle sounds.
Ideal is a book lined library with a wooden or Plaster of Paris roof, and carpet on the floor.
And India, so no absorption, more cement surfaces.
Anything more than 200 watts in total on all the speakers is not needed.
Start from there.
And acoustic curtains can muffle sounds.
Ideal is a book lined library with a wooden or Plaster of Paris roof, and carpet on the floor.
Without acoustic curtains there gonna be odd reflections of sounds coming from all sides as both sides are open with hard furniture a pop layered brick walls not helping in anyway to absorb higher frequencies. So I think that gonna be essential or the room size gonna increase a lot and that is not the main concern as reflections from furniture around gonna be major issue. Two Glass tables, Metal chairs. Only acoustic furniture we have is the Wooden Couch with Cloth Fabric.
7.4ch I think more than 200W is needed. Like for a stereo set it gonna be overkill but for surround setup. It gonna be not sufficient. Expecting to drive 70-80W each channels with 5 channels driven most of the time. So yeah that gonna need more that 200W with 90db/W+ efficiency.
3000cu.ft. is not small. Not Very Big but not small. It is decently big.
Well, that depends on your skills, as driver availability vs. price is already an issue, like you've mentioned. However, getting used (but functional) professional equipment might be a cost-effective solution.
I really don't think JBL themselves would agree to any of this ! No surround system has all its channels driven most of the time. In fact, the 3 front channels playing together would alone result in an extra 5-6dB power. The following URL might help get an idea of how cinema soundfields are designed.
https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/jbl-professional-cinema-sound-system-manual
And to adapt these techniques to small rooms, please see the following, also from JBL.
https://jblpro.com/en/site_elements/jbl-professional-sound-system-design-manual-1999-edition-pt-2
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I've lost count of the amount of times a DIY speaker builder has built the most incredible sounding speakers. Then took them to an enthusiasts event to proudly show of their new creations, and although lots of people heard them, no one left a favourable comment on any forums.
If you want to do it properly, you will need a calibrated measurement microphone and some means to measure the impedance of the drivers when installed in the enclosures. Solely relying on your ears doesn't work, and neither do crossover calculators.
If you want to do it properly, you will need a calibrated measurement microphone and some means to measure the impedance of the drivers when installed in the enclosures. Solely relying on your ears doesn't work, and neither do crossover calculators.
Obviously be using measurement mic to make the passive crossover. But even that gonna be way expensive as it has to taken to multiple trails with different components till we manage to get it down to the point of acceptance. So that gonna add up lot to cost. So hence was thinking to take the Active Crossover by using something like Minidsp 2x4 and using Amp Modules to power individual drivers.
What I think I'd do is buy a budget HT system, e.g. we have a Boxing Day sale for a Pioneer 5.2 system, i.e. Dolby Atmos receiver + sub + all the drivers for $500, and then I'd keep the rest of the budget to DIY an audiophile stereo system over time.
In other words, I'd separate the two (HT and music reproduction). Of course, you will still be able to play music in stereo and have pretty good sound with your HT config, but a very good stereo music system takes some work. This is where DIY can save you a lot of money.
My humble opinion. All the best.
In other words, I'd separate the two (HT and music reproduction). Of course, you will still be able to play music in stereo and have pretty good sound with your HT config, but a very good stereo music system takes some work. This is where DIY can save you a lot of money.
My humble opinion. All the best.
Nah. Music is good but not at the cost of HT Surround. I need system that is more towards being dynamic than being highly detailed. Doesn't mean it has to be bad on accuracy but you get my point. That is the reason I am looking to build speakers which can do 90db/W+ for efficiency so that it gets loud and punchy and pack decent power dynamically. And again that is also a reason for 3-way speaker because I want to separate HF from MR so that the Mid-range off axis coverage is exceptional. And also looking at HF drivers which are very good at handling off axis response from 5-10kHz. And also have good directional LF coverage to get the punch but with accurate directional imaging.
If I had to compromise like that and go for HT In a Box package I would have picked JBL Studio series anyways. It is good for Music and good on Dynamics. I am just looking for a possibility of creating something out of DIY specially 3-way speaker that gonna be better than 2-way JBL speakers.
Pray tell, are you hard-of-hearing?
Live in the woods far from civilization?
Why the need for 2kW and such?
Unless this system is in some wild dance club, the average humanoid listens at normal levels, usually 3 to 10 watts into speakers.
Over that amount, only screaming at someone in conversations is possible.
In fact, in my living room, a normal conversation can only be done at 1w levels.
Not to mention THX is only 105 dB/m/channel/listening position (Lp), 115 db LFE, so in HT mode these can sum to quite loud on modest power even in my horribly dimensioned ~16 x 24 x 8 ft open space room with just 8" (3 way acoustic XO/tri-ax) 'full range' drivers, the optimum size based on a 120 Hz LFE XO point - 1" dia. VC BW (10" for 80 Hz).