The Pensil 10 was not for me, either. Probably a room/stuffing/tuning issue but I couldn't make them produce nice, tight bass. Mine were flabby as all heck down low at higher SPL. I gave up. Someone with more knowledge and patience may have had more success.
Bianchi,
Some of the Fostex factory designs could be likened to a larger Sperrin ie. single front mouth, but none I would consider small. I prefer that shape too but they seem needlessly complex especially next to the Silbury. Haruna was my next option for a 'Sperrin but more' build which they have done nicely, the downside being the size and outrageous weight, not easy getting them upstairs!
Cogitech,
Ill give it a shot but can't compare side by side. Bass was not the issue with the Silbury, they went a lower with more impact than the Haruna but in my room had some big peaks and dips 100-200Hz which I couldn't tune out. Has similar issues with the Haruna but have managed to mostly cure them now. The main problem was voices, some tracks which I know well the vocals never sounded right and a couple of others who heard them said the same. Could have been room, build, break in etc but I'm new to this so difficult to pinpoint the issues. Interestingly when I tested the Silbury in the workshop ie. a huge open space they sounded great, even from 20-30ft away so a bigger room could work. Both have usual fullrange strenghts and weaknesses, mercilesss with poor source quality or mastering and struggled when tracks have a lot going on, Silbury slightly less so. Another + for Silbury is the slimmer shape, definitley more elegant and a lot easier to make and move!
Some of the Fostex factory designs could be likened to a larger Sperrin ie. single front mouth, but none I would consider small. I prefer that shape too but they seem needlessly complex especially next to the Silbury. Haruna was my next option for a 'Sperrin but more' build which they have done nicely, the downside being the size and outrageous weight, not easy getting them upstairs!
Cogitech,
Ill give it a shot but can't compare side by side. Bass was not the issue with the Silbury, they went a lower with more impact than the Haruna but in my room had some big peaks and dips 100-200Hz which I couldn't tune out. Has similar issues with the Haruna but have managed to mostly cure them now. The main problem was voices, some tracks which I know well the vocals never sounded right and a couple of others who heard them said the same. Could have been room, build, break in etc but I'm new to this so difficult to pinpoint the issues. Interestingly when I tested the Silbury in the workshop ie. a huge open space they sounded great, even from 20-30ft away so a bigger room could work. Both have usual fullrange strenghts and weaknesses, mercilesss with poor source quality or mastering and struggled when tracks have a lot going on, Silbury slightly less so. Another + for Silbury is the slimmer shape, definitley more elegant and a lot easier to make and move!
Fair enough. Hmmm, I love Led Zeppelin🙁. Even more torturous, is Alterbridge with the parallax orchestra at the royal albert hall. My current setup turns to mush.
I don’t tend to crank it up, but I listen to a large variety of music. I maybe listening at lower levels because my current setup is very clinical, in a bad way. I’ll soon answer that one.
Thank you bianchi
I don’t tend to crank it up, but I listen to a large variety of music. I maybe listening at lower levels because my current setup is very clinical, in a bad way. I’ll soon answer that one.
Thank you bianchi
My experience with single wide-band (aka full range) driver speakers has been the same - they don't do rock / metal well. I have had much better results with a wide-band driver assisted by helper woofer which is called FAST or WAW.
There are some good projects on the forum.
There are some good projects on the forum.
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I have a large rythmik subwoofer to cover the bass. What is FAST or WAW? I plan to look into complementary subs next.
FAST = Full Range AsSisTed
WAW = Woofer Assisted Wide-band
The idea is to relieve the wide-band driver of bass duties. That way there is less stress on the wide-band driver, and the cone does not have to move as much. Woofers / mid-bass drivers can deliver more bass, and it is possible to use multiple woofers too, depending on the design.
It is similar to a 2-way speaker, but the key difference is that a wide-band can be crossed lower and in a FAST / WAW that is usually the case. Where in 2-ways you will often see the XO point is above 1.5 KHz, in a FAST / WAW it is lower than 1 KHz and in many cases around 300-400 Hz (can be even lower).
at what frequency do you typically cross your sub-woofer to other speakers?
WAW = Woofer Assisted Wide-band
The idea is to relieve the wide-band driver of bass duties. That way there is less stress on the wide-band driver, and the cone does not have to move as much. Woofers / mid-bass drivers can deliver more bass, and it is possible to use multiple woofers too, depending on the design.
It is similar to a 2-way speaker, but the key difference is that a wide-band can be crossed lower and in a FAST / WAW that is usually the case. Where in 2-ways you will often see the XO point is above 1.5 KHz, in a FAST / WAW it is lower than 1 KHz and in many cases around 300-400 Hz (can be even lower).
at what frequency do you typically cross your sub-woofer to other speakers?
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I thought FAST = Full range Assisted by Sub-woofer Technology.
I've been down that road.
It is possible to have very solid, low and tight bass from FR drivers. You just might need more than one, and they need to be in the right enclosure. My Planet 10 microTowers with dual EL70 dig very deep and maintain an incredible amount of composure and speed for their size. Not a hint of flab. WAY better than the Pensil 10.2 did.
The caveat: this is still not a solution for those who wish to listen at SPL that will cause cumulative hearing loss.
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A moniker that implies that subwoofers are 'technology', whereas for some mysterious reason unbeknown to woman-born, other drive units are not.
I had an idea some years ago. I call them '2-way loudspeakers'. The crossover frequency is neither here nor there in terms of functionality. Granted, there isn't a great deal of support for that stance. 😉
I had an idea some years ago. I call them '2-way loudspeakers'. The crossover frequency is neither here nor there in terms of functionality. Granted, there isn't a great deal of support for that stance. 😉
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I guess I'm lucky, because my 12p Super Pensils definitely rock, and like the mighty Zep.😀
Sometimes size matters.😉
jeff
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Haha, thank you for the clarification, I wasn’t following the concept until the word xover came into play.
I too am on the quest of single driver nirvana! If I can have the frequency curve of the A12pw I would be in heaven.
I have a really nice sub that I use for movies, etc. but it is off for music. Truthfully, I have Def Tech STS towers; probably 40 way xover, built in powered racetrack subwoofers, and only sounds good when turned off.
I too am on the quest of single driver nirvana! If I can have the frequency curve of the A12pw I would be in heaven.
I have a really nice sub that I use for movies, etc. but it is off for music. Truthfully, I have Def Tech STS towers; probably 40 way xover, built in powered racetrack subwoofers, and only sounds good when turned off.
I should say that my problem with the Pensil 10.2 that I built might not have been the fault of the box. The Alpairs have extremely light suspension and massive amounts of excursion ability (compared to their peers). The result (in my very limited experience) is that they can be easily driven out of control in an open baffle or a box that provides little to no damping.
I'll post a video of my microTowers playing some rock a bit later. The EL70 drivers have tough suspension, thicker cones and (in a box like this - mass-loaded transmission line) they can be pushed very, very hard while remaining in control.
Just waiting for my camera battery to charge...
I'll post a video of my microTowers playing some rock a bit later. The EL70 drivers have tough suspension, thicker cones and (in a box like this - mass-loaded transmission line) they can be pushed very, very hard while remaining in control.
Just waiting for my camera battery to charge...
It was interesting seeing the difference a box can make with my FE166En. Had them breaking in on a small open baffle and even low volume gave a fair bit of excursion, but now in the Haruna they hardly move for anything except the lowest tones. It's almost eerie hearing quite powerful bass with the cone barely moving.
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I have seen a bunch of acronym descriptions.
WAW is a much more descriptive and accurated moniker if you are crossing 150-400 Hz, FAST term only really makes sense with XO <100 Hz.
dave
I am currently listening to EL70eN in Mar-Kel trapezoids. They can rock out too. Bob Marley & Roy Orbison lately. Turn it up till the amp starts clipping and then back off a bit.
:^D
dave
I have yet to try a horn, and I am very eager to do so. I am keen to experience what you have described.
The EL70s in my microTowers move more than a bit.
You'll see it in a little while.
Mark had to have spider designer go to great effort and some 1500 surrounds were tossed due to being out-of-spec.
I have heard EL70eN in Maeshowe. :^)
Those cabinet sup for grabs btw for anyone willing to come pick them up.
dave
I have heard EL70eN in Maeshowe. :^)
Those cabinet sup for grabs btw for anyone willing to come pick them up.
dave