Dear all, I jsut bought a package of Final Sound speakers. The 100i's are working fine but the 400i's provide no sound.
I plug in the 12v power adapters and hear a click from the internal relay 10 seconds later. I can also detect by ear a little charging of the panels.
Connect sound in and turn it up and get no volume. I can hear a tiny bit of sound from the electronics box at the bottom.
Issue occurs with both speakers, but previous owner says they were working fine!
Any ideas where to start? The company is bust so no joy there.
Andrew
I plug in the 12v power adapters and hear a click from the internal relay 10 seconds later. I can also detect by ear a little charging of the panels.
Connect sound in and turn it up and get no volume. I can hear a tiny bit of sound from the electronics box at the bottom.
Issue occurs with both speakers, but previous owner says they were working fine!
Any ideas where to start? The company is bust so no joy there.
Andrew
Update (both speakers still not working and doing exactly the same thing)
The lower left of card is voltage step-down from 12v to 8v. This is working. The top is for audio pass-through via the relay. This switches after 5 secs of enabling power, probably the 8-pin chip is a 555 timer or equivalent.
The lower right seems to be something to do with voltage step-up and I'm guessing the 4 diodes are a rectifier. This seems to be working as putting any metal object onto some of the pins causes the relay to switch off and a spark to jump, indicating high voltage. The diodes are all fine.
I believe the 555 or whatever it is could also be a comparator, so the audio switches when there is both an audio signal and the panel has charged to the correct voltage. It looks therefore that the whole board is working.
In addition I can hear the sound resonating in the relay so I know the signal is fine.
I can hear the panels charging as well (mylar flexes etc). I'm unable to see if the voltage is as high as it should be as multimeter doesn't go that high.
The lower left of card is voltage step-down from 12v to 8v. This is working. The top is for audio pass-through via the relay. This switches after 5 secs of enabling power, probably the 8-pin chip is a 555 timer or equivalent.
The lower right seems to be something to do with voltage step-up and I'm guessing the 4 diodes are a rectifier. This seems to be working as putting any metal object onto some of the pins causes the relay to switch off and a spark to jump, indicating high voltage. The diodes are all fine.
I believe the 555 or whatever it is could also be a comparator, so the audio switches when there is both an audio signal and the panel has charged to the correct voltage. It looks therefore that the whole board is working.
In addition I can hear the sound resonating in the relay so I know the signal is fine.
I can hear the panels charging as well (mylar flexes etc). I'm unable to see if the voltage is as high as it should be as multimeter doesn't go that high.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The reverse of the board shows how the sections are separated . On the right is the audio transfer to the transformer. I have tested the signal is going through once the relay clicks, which it is.
I don't know what is going in/out on the top right of board. Oddly, if I put the multimeter lead or any metal object on the 0v line bottom left of board I get the spark jump and relay switches off. I don't know if this is normal but presume somehow it is, since both boards do it.
I'd like to find out what inputs these transformers have. They do seem to be working though.
I don't know what is going in/out on the top right of board. Oddly, if I put the multimeter lead or any metal object on the 0v line bottom left of board I get the spark jump and relay switches off. I don't know if this is normal but presume somehow it is, since both boards do it.
I'd like to find out what inputs these transformers have. They do seem to be working though.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I spoke to the Managing Director of Final Sound which is in administration (everybody was laid off in March). They are selling the company/technology and hope to get things back in production. There are quite a few dealers in the UK that paid for speakers/parts that never turned up. I spoke to a few to see if I could secure 400i parts.
For now though, I'm on my own trying to diagnose and fix these puppies.
For now though, I'm on my own trying to diagnose and fix these puppies.
Andrew,
The Final patent application has plenty of circuit diagrams starting with Figure 25.
I'm not sure how closely they follow the 400i, but at least it is a starting point for your troubleshooting.
Here is a link to the patent:
Electrostatic Loudspeaker Systems ... - Google Patent Search
Brilliant find there!
Fig 25 and part C of 26 are on the same board. The circuit is identical to those diagrams 🙂
Electrostatic Loudspeaker Systems ... - Google Patent Search
As the voltage seems to be getting through H and I seems to be working OK. This tells me the problem is with F and G (Fig 27), which is inside the panel somewhere or the A/B to F/G (fig 26) but since this is part of the voltage control I believe it's working.
So panel damage seems to be the likelihood for both panels. I'll stick a multimeter on F and G panel side and see what I get. If it's "open" then I presume I have a problem there.
Fig 25 and part C of 26 are on the same board. The circuit is identical to those diagrams 🙂
Electrostatic Loudspeaker Systems ... - Google Patent Search
As the voltage seems to be getting through H and I seems to be working OK. This tells me the problem is with F and G (Fig 27), which is inside the panel somewhere or the A/B to F/G (fig 26) but since this is part of the voltage control I believe it's working.
So panel damage seems to be the likelihood for both panels. I'll stick a multimeter on F and G panel side and see what I get. If it's "open" then I presume I have a problem there.
Panels are fine it seems. Also voltage to the stators "feels" fine. I accidentally bridged the leads with my fingers. 🙄
Is Finals "Inverted" patent used in these speaker?
If so, you have 9000 volts over the stator plates, which must have felt more than🙄!! So I suspect that the bias supplies are not working, maybe due to a fuse?
If so, you have 9000 volts over the stator plates, which must have felt more than🙄!! So I suspect that the bias supplies are not working, maybe due to a fuse?
It is yup. I can tell you that the shock wasn't pleasant, but its of such low current it did no lasting harm. I think. 😀
There is a guy that repairs them in Holland called "Twinstatic Audio" and I've sent both transformers off to be inspected. Quotes are 200 euro for a new transformer or 300 euro to re-foil each panel.
I'm hoping it's just a component in the transformer that has failed in both cases. There are a few components (diodes and such) in the transformer but it can't be accessed as it's a sealed unit.
There is a guy that repairs them in Holland called "Twinstatic Audio" and I've sent both transformers off to be inspected. Quotes are 200 euro for a new transformer or 300 euro to re-foil each panel.
I'm hoping it's just a component in the transformer that has failed in both cases. There are a few components (diodes and such) in the transformer but it can't be accessed as it's a sealed unit.
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