Has anyone here ever heard George Short's (North Creek Music) new ribbon speakers? They are nearly full range and need only a subwoofer. He seems to think they are something special. I live so far away from upstate New York that I may never get to hear them.
Comments?
Fibonacci Technologies
Comments?
Fibonacci Technologies
I have been following George through the web in the last few years. I do think his ribbons are very good!!!
The date on the patent application is exactly one year ago. How could this have been shown "years ago?"
Like most high end audio equipment, just too dang expensive. Even if it performs as claimed (I have no reason to believe otherwise), I just could not justify the expense--even if I could afford it.
If you could get past the "first pair" expense maybe.
I have found that "very good" performance at low cost, far outweighs "best experience" at ridiculous cost. You just get so much more out of life. Many well designed systems outperform "live" performances now. Sound recordings and playback are approaching the photograph level of reproduction.
That doesn't mean I don't want a system that outperforms, just that systems are getting that good.
Like most high end audio equipment, just too dang expensive. Even if it performs as claimed (I have no reason to believe otherwise), I just could not justify the expense--even if I could afford it.
If you could get past the "first pair" expense maybe.
I have found that "very good" performance at low cost, far outweighs "best experience" at ridiculous cost. You just get so much more out of life. Many well designed systems outperform "live" performances now. Sound recordings and playback are approaching the photograph level of reproduction.
That doesn't mean I don't want a system that outperforms, just that systems are getting that good.
It is an application, not a patent. If it has been shown years ago, and the patent inspectors find that, then the patent will not be granted.
dave
Yes hilarious, I am sure you meant that as a joke.
But in case you didn't, I hope I will live to see the day when I mistake a loudspeaker for the real thing, even 10 feet down the hallway.
Or maybe I am misunderstanding.... after all, I've never mistaken a photo of a mountain for the real thing either - even looking at it with one eye closed. So maybe you are right. Some loudspeakers are just as "perfect" as some photographs.
Or just what could you mean?
Why does so much of hifi high-end advertizing make me immediately think of claims made for speaker wires?
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What makes this "special"? The numbers?
Or is it a truly unique design?
Seems to me that this company is a fly-by-night affair where a guy with a garage and $20k in investment capital thinks he can make it in the "hi-fi" world as a world-class manufacturer. More advertising, words, and flair than actual product.
Every picture on the website looks like it was taken in the same home. The owner of the company.
Don't get me wrong. I believe it is possible for the little guy to come up with something new and completely change the world. I just don't think this is it. It just looks like another large planar/ribbon variant that claims to cover more octaves than others do.
The last time I was impressed by a new idea of creating sound was when I read about a tweeter that used a plasma arc that was excited by the music signal to expand and contract.
I'm waiting for the day when we master the fundamental forces of the universe, and can modulate gravity to pull the gas molecules of the air toward and away from a point in the middle of the air. Only then will we be able to create truly "perfect" hi-fi sound.
Or is it a truly unique design?
Seems to me that this company is a fly-by-night affair where a guy with a garage and $20k in investment capital thinks he can make it in the "hi-fi" world as a world-class manufacturer. More advertising, words, and flair than actual product.
Every picture on the website looks like it was taken in the same home. The owner of the company.
Don't get me wrong. I believe it is possible for the little guy to come up with something new and completely change the world. I just don't think this is it. It just looks like another large planar/ribbon variant that claims to cover more octaves than others do.
The last time I was impressed by a new idea of creating sound was when I read about a tweeter that used a plasma arc that was excited by the music signal to expand and contract.
I'm waiting for the day when we master the fundamental forces of the universe, and can modulate gravity to pull the gas molecules of the air toward and away from a point in the middle of the air. Only then will we be able to create truly "perfect" hi-fi sound.
George is smarter then you think:
AboutNorthCreek
I agree his website is not good, but if you take the time to look at the offering besides the ribbons, you will see that he really understands speakerdesign.
AboutNorthCreek
I agree his website is not good, but if you take the time to look at the offering besides the ribbons, you will see that he really understands speakerdesign.
Well, that fellow, George, sure has a fancy background in physics and distinguished prior employment. It is reasonable to think he has very good judgment in sound, a high standard of quality control, and so on, that results in quality speakers.
Pity his location is so "exotic." I'd like to hear his speakers. Of course, we all know that ribbons are just a poor substitute for ESLs... but ESLs are pretty forbidding for any manufacturer to attempt.
But my next thought was something The Amazing Randy (magician and debunker of spiritualism) used to say: the people most easily fooled by spiritualists are scientists.
If somebody could show me a double-blind test that establishes a difference based on 12-gauge wire coils compared to say, 18-gauge, or maybe good capacitors compared to "special" capacitors, then I will eat my words.
In other words, what should a reader conclude - do we have a fancy-educated guy making great stuff or a gullible "golden-eared" fanatic?
This forum is full of Nobel-Prize wannabee engineers and Henry Kloss millionaire wannabees who show the same distracted pattern. Some quite brilliant with equations... but they don't know the first thing about good human testing.
Pity his location is so "exotic." I'd like to hear his speakers. Of course, we all know that ribbons are just a poor substitute for ESLs... but ESLs are pretty forbidding for any manufacturer to attempt.
But my next thought was something The Amazing Randy (magician and debunker of spiritualism) used to say: the people most easily fooled by spiritualists are scientists.
If somebody could show me a double-blind test that establishes a difference based on 12-gauge wire coils compared to say, 18-gauge, or maybe good capacitors compared to "special" capacitors, then I will eat my words.
In other words, what should a reader conclude - do we have a fancy-educated guy making great stuff or a gullible "golden-eared" fanatic?
This forum is full of Nobel-Prize wannabee engineers and Henry Kloss millionaire wannabees who show the same distracted pattern. Some quite brilliant with equations... but they don't know the first thing about good human testing.
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What I mean is the the clarity of sound has become so good it is actually "unnatural".
I have been along with the recording engineers for the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra many times. You hear it live and it seems nice. You take it back to the recording studio and play it back in the padded room and WOW! Crystal clear. So clear that I have to admit that it is probably "unreal." Unreal in the sense that you are extremely unlikely to be in a good enough hall, in the precise position, and under the right conditions to get that clarity--it might even be impossible.
Now, solo recitals are a little different story. In this case, I will agree pretty much with you. But this still depends on the size of the room, it's acoustic characteristics, and your closeness to the performer (and other tonal factors in the case of voices and cellos). But for the overall clarity of sound, live recorders are often able to block out nasty room reflections by using good microphones and placement. Something live listeners cannot do--even in the best performance locations.
That is what I mean. This is similar to photography. You can make attractive people "more attractive" than they actually are (even without post processing). Not that they look more real.
I used to think that live performance is what I wanted, but I was surprised to find how muddy live performances often are. I want crystal clear sound with excellent imaging. Live music provides the imaging, but often does not provide that crystal clear sound (close your eyes sometime in a live orchestra performance and even the imaging isn't as good as you might think it is).
How often can you hear a finger placed down on a violin string when the soloist is playing with an orchestra. If its dead quiet, no orchestra, and you are in a good hall sometimes. In a good recording, every time. I am addicted to that clarity. Hence my interest in planars, ribbons, ESL's.
There's my expl. We can take it elsewhere if you would like to continue. I mean that in a nice way. 🙂
I have been along with the recording engineers for the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra many times. You hear it live and it seems nice. You take it back to the recording studio and play it back in the padded room and WOW! Crystal clear. So clear that I have to admit that it is probably "unreal." Unreal in the sense that you are extremely unlikely to be in a good enough hall, in the precise position, and under the right conditions to get that clarity--it might even be impossible.
Now, solo recitals are a little different story. In this case, I will agree pretty much with you. But this still depends on the size of the room, it's acoustic characteristics, and your closeness to the performer (and other tonal factors in the case of voices and cellos). But for the overall clarity of sound, live recorders are often able to block out nasty room reflections by using good microphones and placement. Something live listeners cannot do--even in the best performance locations.
That is what I mean. This is similar to photography. You can make attractive people "more attractive" than they actually are (even without post processing). Not that they look more real.
I used to think that live performance is what I wanted, but I was surprised to find how muddy live performances often are. I want crystal clear sound with excellent imaging. Live music provides the imaging, but often does not provide that crystal clear sound (close your eyes sometime in a live orchestra performance and even the imaging isn't as good as you might think it is).
How often can you hear a finger placed down on a violin string when the soloist is playing with an orchestra. If its dead quiet, no orchestra, and you are in a good hall sometimes. In a good recording, every time. I am addicted to that clarity. Hence my interest in planars, ribbons, ESL's.
There's my expl. We can take it elsewhere if you would like to continue. I mean that in a nice way. 🙂
North Creek has been around for quite a few years...
As far as bending a ribbon, it implies supports of some sort, since thin aluminum foil won't hold its shape on its own.
So I am wondering how he is doing this and what sort of efficiency/sensitivity it has... a freq response graph would be nice too, eh? 😀
_-_-bear
As far as bending a ribbon, it implies supports of some sort, since thin aluminum foil won't hold its shape on its own.
So I am wondering how he is doing this and what sort of efficiency/sensitivity it has... a freq response graph would be nice too, eh? 😀
_-_-bear
Bentoronto:
I share your general overall skepticism. In George's case, he has the background, methodology, and similar skepticism to at least be interesting. Listening is the only way to tell; and I think he presents everything you could expect to warrant it.
The problem I have is, in the words of Jimmy McMillan from New York,
"The rent is too damn high."
I share your general overall skepticism. In George's case, he has the background, methodology, and similar skepticism to at least be interesting. Listening is the only way to tell; and I think he presents everything you could expect to warrant it.
The problem I have is, in the words of Jimmy McMillan from New York,
"The rent is too damn high."
I was at fault for being smug and arrogant in adherence to ESLs earlier and I apologize to the forum.
But your personal put-down of me has a deftness I can only dream of achieving.
I think we need a show of hands about ribbon vs ESL sound.
George Short knows what he's talking about!
I've owned his Rhythm Revelators for about 5 years now.
I also own Apogee Studio Grands, Vandersteen 4A's and Infinity Epsilons all powered by very good electronics.
I can tell you first hand that his designs are outstanding. I bought the Rhythm's as an experiment, without hearing them first, based on his reputation figuring if they weren't excellent that I'd just sell them.
5 years later, they're still here and I still love them.
I have NO doubt that his ribbon offerings are good. He's main forte is crossover and driver design, and he's been designing top-end stuff for many years. His company builds crossover components that are used by many of the biggest names in the speaker industry. It's these same components along with his engineering expertise that's makes his stuff really shine.
Well worth the time to explore imho.
Steve
I've owned his Rhythm Revelators for about 5 years now.
I also own Apogee Studio Grands, Vandersteen 4A's and Infinity Epsilons all powered by very good electronics.
I can tell you first hand that his designs are outstanding. I bought the Rhythm's as an experiment, without hearing them first, based on his reputation figuring if they weren't excellent that I'd just sell them.
5 years later, they're still here and I still love them.
I have NO doubt that his ribbon offerings are good. He's main forte is crossover and driver design, and he's been designing top-end stuff for many years. His company builds crossover components that are used by many of the biggest names in the speaker industry. It's these same components along with his engineering expertise that's makes his stuff really shine.
Well worth the time to explore imho.
Steve
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Sorry Ben ,
It was my response to such ... 😀 everyone is entitled to there opinion not their own facts..
I 'm sure there will be winners on both side of the fence, but audio being audio there will be no checkered flag..... just tons of conversation..
Peace ....
An interesting set of responses. Those critical of George Short and his designs have not done their homework. I have built two different systems from North Creek and am happy with both. But I cannot and will not build another speaker without an audition, especially at this price level.
Somehow I will find a way to hear these things while I save up.
Somehow I will find a way to hear these things while I save up.
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