Fun With Feastrex
I plan to put the 9Dnf in an open baffle
with a 12" Tone Tubby 16 ohm alinco mag that crosses over at 200 cycles.The Tone Tubby will sit below the 9Dnf. The open baffle will be about 24"x 60" or so .
Phil
Santa Fe
I plan to put the 9Dnf in an open baffle
with a 12" Tone Tubby 16 ohm alinco mag that crosses over at 200 cycles.The Tone Tubby will sit below the 9Dnf. The open baffle will be about 24"x 60" or so .
Phil
Santa Fe
My personal room...
My room is 144" x 160" and 8 feet high.
In this room I have the 5Dnf in a Maiko cab. The speakers are pulled way out into the room (63" from the rear wall and 39" from the side wall. The listening is very near field but the 5Dnf sounds really good in this small room.
The 9Dnf are going in my clients living room and that room is large. around 20' wide and 45' or so deep. The ceiling is from 10 feet to 15 feet. The room is ideal for OB and is very lively. Mostly wood floors and wood ceilings.
Phil
Santa Fe
My room is 144" x 160" and 8 feet high.
In this room I have the 5Dnf in a Maiko cab. The speakers are pulled way out into the room (63" from the rear wall and 39" from the side wall. The listening is very near field but the 5Dnf sounds really good in this small room.
The 9Dnf are going in my clients living room and that room is large. around 20' wide and 45' or so deep. The ceiling is from 10 feet to 15 feet. The room is ideal for OB and is very lively. Mostly wood floors and wood ceilings.
Phil
Santa Fe
Re: My personal room...
The size?
The "lively" part?
(just haven't yet heard an OB system I could listen to more than about five minutes, much less enjoy.
the closest was the Lowther set-up @ VSAC with Jeffery Jackson's 304TL amps carpeted floors & absorbers all over the walls.
That delayed sound bouncing around smears everything, kills detail & drives me crazy. there must be a way to do it that works though, so many people seem to like it...)
What would that be?Phil Townsend said:
The size?
The "lively" part?
(just haven't yet heard an OB system I could listen to more than about five minutes, much less enjoy.
the closest was the Lowther set-up @ VSAC with Jeffery Jackson's 304TL amps carpeted floors & absorbers all over the walls.
That delayed sound bouncing around smears everything, kills detail & drives me crazy. there must be a way to do it that works though, so many people seem to like it...)
Re: Re: My personal room...
Can I assume a live instrument played in a moderately dampened room doesnt drive you crazy? What be the difference between dipole speakers and musical instruments that radiate sound front and back?
Cheers
B.
serenechaos said:
Can I assume a live instrument played in a moderately dampened room doesnt drive you crazy? What be the difference between dipole speakers and musical instruments that radiate sound front and back?
Cheers
B.
Live music in a moderatly damped (not dampened/wet 🙂 ) room doesn't drive me crazy, IF it's not too loud, or some other problem.
The sound wave coming off of say, an acoustic guitar, does not sound anything like a recording of the same coming out of a dipole speaker to me.
On the live instrument all the sound is coming from one source, in phase and radiates in all directions, then interacts with the room.
Off a dipole, sound radiates in one direction in phase, in the other direction out of phase, canceles some out, comb filters some out, delays & combines and interacts with the room...
Not at all the same, and I'm guessing that's why it sounds so different.
It can make a nice effect to use when recording, if you want to add "space" or "ambience" to a recording, make it sound like it's being recorded in a bigger room. Play something, record it, play back through dipoles, & record the playback, just like electronic reverb, if that's what you're looking for.
The sound wave coming off of say, an acoustic guitar, does not sound anything like a recording of the same coming out of a dipole speaker to me.
On the live instrument all the sound is coming from one source, in phase and radiates in all directions, then interacts with the room.
Off a dipole, sound radiates in one direction in phase, in the other direction out of phase, canceles some out, comb filters some out, delays & combines and interacts with the room...
Not at all the same, and I'm guessing that's why it sounds so different.
It can make a nice effect to use when recording, if you want to add "space" or "ambience" to a recording, make it sound like it's being recorded in a bigger room. Play something, record it, play back through dipoles, & record the playback, just like electronic reverb, if that's what you're looking for.
I'm not sure the phase of the rear wave matters much, at least in the higher frequencies. Could be wrong here, but by my understanding using diffusion on the rear wall will result in short wavelength sounds arriving back at the listen in a largely random spread of phase. I have found that adding rear tweeters, for example, seems to raise output slightly as expected, but does not show up as measurable comb filtering at the listening position.
I'd agree though that one can have too much rear wave effect in most some rooms. I've got my dipoles 6' off the back wall and still prefer a little bit of absorption at the points of first reflection on that wall, whereas Linkwitz for example likes the front wall very much alive.
When you think about it though, dipoles add maybe only 25% more room into the equation, and phase wise its no different from the infinite number of reflections arriving from monoploes. Infact dipole are putting out a lot less to their edges so I think the differences are not huge, at least not beyond what some simple placement and room treatments cant make up for. If you chose to entirely deaden the wall behind a dipole youre effectively left with a monople minus box colorations.
I'd agree though that one can have too much rear wave effect in most some rooms. I've got my dipoles 6' off the back wall and still prefer a little bit of absorption at the points of first reflection on that wall, whereas Linkwitz for example likes the front wall very much alive.
When you think about it though, dipoles add maybe only 25% more room into the equation, and phase wise its no different from the infinite number of reflections arriving from monoploes. Infact dipole are putting out a lot less to their edges so I think the differences are not huge, at least not beyond what some simple placement and room treatments cant make up for. If you chose to entirely deaden the wall behind a dipole youre effectively left with a monople minus box colorations.
My clients Room
I had the pleasure of listening to a variety of small bands and voices in her room. It was lively to be sure but it did sound really good.
I had the pleasure of listening to a variety of small bands and voices in her room. It was lively to be sure but it did sound really good.
Nelson Pass said:
Many thanks for all your good work Nelson. Mine have arrived safety from Oz (thanks Warwick!) Serials B0001 & B0002! Lahdi!
May I ask...
Has the resonance frequency of your D9nf's changed over the last six months as the suspension softens with use? Are we still the wrong side of 60Hz?
How do you regard the top end performance of the driver - in your opinion does it need a supertweeter (I ask because of the talk from others about using a ribbon above them)
I was rather hoping that this driver would cover either the top or the bottom end on it's own - I'm happy to concede to a two way design but I'd resent the complexity of a three way. I don't intend to try an OB design...
Much obliged
dpaws said:
Good question - this would be a good time to re-measure them.
I don't find the need for a tweeter on top, but it's certainly true that a fine
tweeter wouldn't hurt. My favorites are the smaller RAAL and the SEAS
Crescendo. I really like the Pioneer ribbons also, but they are no longer
available.
😎
Nelson Pass said:
That would be great if you don't mind... let me know any costs incurred for a set of results and I'll Paypal - the info is invaluable for my enclosure project who's initial dimensions will be based on parameters.
WRT tweeters, I was looking at the Focal TBe (fantastic small form factor), the 4Pi or the Raidho planar but... how would I correctly position either as I would need almost a concentric mounting at 16kHz...
Would it be better to simply fire them upwards ("ambience style") rather than trying to create a coherent point source?
I'd like to chuck in a tweeter nomination as I think it might be overlooked, the Gemni tweeter as used by Bastanis Audio. A very classy dome IMO, and dipole to boot. Not cheap at ±$800 though.
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