You've just shot the British side in the foot old man! Read my original post again - and this time imagine me saying it with my tongue in my cheek!
I just had to google that (for fun). zip.
Use it as extension cord on a big table saw ripping 3/4" ply, burn in time, 5 minutes.😀
Jeff
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People tend to lose sight of the big picture when it comes to audio - if you really care about fidelity then your speakers and their interaction with the room will make far more difference than anything electrical (provided you've invested in something a bit better than an Aiwa POS "hi-fi" that is).
I guess that's why so many wise old-timers move to cans in the end - that or the fact that the WAF diminishes after the honeymoon period. 😉
Maybe I'll invest in some decent headphones and see where it takes me...
^^ Not thread-jacking, honest 🙄 ^^
I guess that's why so many wise old-timers move to cans in the end - that or the fact that the WAF diminishes after the honeymoon period. 😉
Maybe I'll invest in some decent headphones and see where it takes me...
^^ Not thread-jacking, honest 🙄 ^^
I hope that wasn't in response to my statement about British humour. It really wasn't anything to do with intelligence.
mobius
I prefer to eliminate the wires altogether, using orgonnic projection to get the signal (in scalar format, no less!!) from the generator (amp( to the transucer(speaker)...😉 ;-)
QMD - Advanced Alterntaive Energy Tool
I prefer to eliminate the wires altogether, using orgonnic projection to get the signal (in scalar format, no less!!) from the generator (amp( to the transucer(speaker)...😉 ;-)
QMD - Advanced Alterntaive Energy Tool
No, that was American humor. There are a lot of stupid Neanderthals here. People with too much money and no taste, no sense of QUALITY (as Pirsig would define quality).
What I want is the best quality wire I can get for the fewest dollars. No hype. No Hoodoo.
18 gauge pure silver wire @$60.00 for a five foot stereo pair. How can I go wrong?
What I want is the best quality wire I can get for the fewest dollars. No hype. No Hoodoo.
18 gauge pure silver wire @$60.00 for a five foot stereo pair. How can I go wrong?
While I am a firm believer in the idea that cables CAN make a difference in the sound of our systems, I think some people definitely fall into the Neanderthal category.
For those of you who think that power cables cannot make any difference in the sound of your system, think again. A properly designed power cable will not only be of low resistance , but it will offer superior RFI rejection. Something that a typical twinlead power cord cannot do.
Perhaps changing cables in your system doesn't make a noticeable difference to you. I can't argue with that, I'm not there, and I'm not you. Everyone's body is different, ears included.
Perhaps the difference isn't in our ears. Perhaps the difference is in our stereo gear.
Some stereo gear seems as though it doesn't make any difference what cabling you use, it sounds the same.
I think it is a combination of the differences in peoples hearing AND listening skills , and the gear in question.
Maybe with "Amp X" you've tried 30 different speaker cables and came to the conclusion that they really didn't change the sound much, and all this cable hurrah is a bunch of bologna.
Perhaps you should consider that "Amp X" could be the culprit. Many supposed "HiFi" amplifiers use basic (read low grade) electrolytic input caps, have very minimal power supplies (read lack of filtering and lack of reserve), and boast great frequency response and distortion specs due to the use of Global Negative Feed Back (read band-aid for a poor design).
If you have one of these amps , it is very possible that this is why you can't seem to hear a difference in cabling.
If you have poorly designed "HiFi" grade speakers , they could be the reason you can't hear the difference.
The lack of quality and care found in most mass produced "HiFi" products is what lead me to "DIY" audio as a hobby.
If you have some gear that is touted as being "Fast" , "Analytical" , "Good transient response" , try some cable swapping with them and see if you can't hear a difference.
You need all the right peices in order to complete the puzzle. Some gear works in harmony with others, some does not.
Ready for the worst .
............................BlakeAh, the Neanderthal club - Know it well!! have played with the odd "silly product" in my time ......
This "tip" is not so silly (it's also promoted by the Jim Smith, no less) - there are a number of benefits of moving your system away from "between the speakers" - it costs a bit more for the extra length of speaker wires (not the quality) - one of those simple "room acoustics" exercises, simple to try.
Incidently, you will need 2 x 5ft per side = $120 total - you may find the cost of 99.99% pure silver from a jewelers supply house a lot cheaper (pay by the gram), and just thread it thru an insulating sleeve.
Sometimes folks in high rise buildings find that lifting the wires off the floor makes quite a difference also - something about all that steel in the structure.
I have always found this topic ridiculous. Speaker outputs are of low impedance and balanced. The material used in the wire will make no difference in the sound quality. Both conductors must run parallel though, no coax type cable on balanced wiring. As long as the guage is sufficient for the application such as power and distance run then it will not have any bearing on sound quality or power loss. If I strung up two coat hangars between terminals, that cheap steel would sound exactly the same as 24K gold. It is low impedance and balanced.
For pre level cables unbalanced type then the construction is of importance, not the material. The construction makes a difference since it is a high impedance connection this is where noise rejection becomes important, when it enters the amp, not when it exits. Impedance and capacitance of the cable is what counts here, not the metal or insulator.
16 Guage Zip/Lamp cord is just fine for speakers and a pre level cable with good braiding for noise rejection on the input side is all you need. Spend enough to get a good coax cable but $200 a foot is as someone earlier said, hi fi snobbery.
For pre level cables unbalanced type then the construction is of importance, not the material. The construction makes a difference since it is a high impedance connection this is where noise rejection becomes important, when it enters the amp, not when it exits. Impedance and capacitance of the cable is what counts here, not the metal or insulator.
16 Guage Zip/Lamp cord is just fine for speakers and a pre level cable with good braiding for noise rejection on the input side is all you need. Spend enough to get a good coax cable but $200 a foot is as someone earlier said, hi fi snobbery.
Jim, math was never my strong suit. You're right but $120 for the pair is still a good deal when considering the Teflon isn't it?
And Nihilist, I'm intrigued, Whats a good power cord?
As for amps. I've tried My modified Mark VI's. These have 4 380 uf computer grade power supply caps. And the B+ is running about 540 volts. Preamp and phase splitter are now 12AU7's driving KT 88 outputs. (all new JJ's) The bass is coming from a recently refurbished Blaze Linear 200 series II. I've tried the speakers bi-amped and alone with both these amps. Also tried my Carver. The Carver sounds harsh. The Phase clean alone but a bit cold. The Dynacos alone a bit muddy on the bottom. The best combination is the Dynacos on top with the phase on the bottom and the carver for the TV. My friend John has a Krell preamp and a Moore Franklin tube amp but he won't bring them over to let me try them. For preamps I have an Audio Research SP3a with new JJ's and Solen polypropylene coupling caps. Stock other than that. I also have my Advent receiver that I've tried as a preamp. The ARC is better.
The plan is to try the Kimbers I bought off of Audiogon and see if I can hear a difference. If I can I may go for the silver and put the Kimbers on the bottom. The idea is incremental improvement without spending a lot. And as long as I can hear a difference keep going. That way when the last change doesn't bare fruit I only have one thing to peddle on EBAY!
And there must be thread on power cords here somewhere.
And Nihilist, I'm intrigued, Whats a good power cord?
As for amps. I've tried My modified Mark VI's. These have 4 380 uf computer grade power supply caps. And the B+ is running about 540 volts. Preamp and phase splitter are now 12AU7's driving KT 88 outputs. (all new JJ's) The bass is coming from a recently refurbished Blaze Linear 200 series II. I've tried the speakers bi-amped and alone with both these amps. Also tried my Carver. The Carver sounds harsh. The Phase clean alone but a bit cold. The Dynacos alone a bit muddy on the bottom. The best combination is the Dynacos on top with the phase on the bottom and the carver for the TV. My friend John has a Krell preamp and a Moore Franklin tube amp but he won't bring them over to let me try them. For preamps I have an Audio Research SP3a with new JJ's and Solen polypropylene coupling caps. Stock other than that. I also have my Advent receiver that I've tried as a preamp. The ARC is better.
The plan is to try the Kimbers I bought off of Audiogon and see if I can hear a difference. If I can I may go for the silver and put the Kimbers on the bottom. The idea is incremental improvement without spending a lot. And as long as I can hear a difference keep going. That way when the last change doesn't bare fruit I only have one thing to peddle on EBAY!
And there must be thread on power cords here somewhere.
Oh, I almost forgot, my best speakers are my original Snell type a's. I like them better than John's Virgos for the bass. And as long as I don't go speaker shopping their great! `
Right off the bat I will agree that price is the issue. Other than that , I can't help but find the logic in your post ridiculous.
Doesn't a balanced cable have 3 wires , a + , a - , and a neutral ? So how is a speaker cable balanced when it only has a + and a - ?
If what you say regarding the materials used for conductors is true, then if a metal wire - is a metal wire - is a metal wire , then does " a magnet - is a magnet - is a magnet" hold true too ? If it's just the geometry of the motor structures plates/pole piece that are relevant , than why use any different magnet other than the cheapest one available that is sufficient strength to do the job ?
The same could be said for any part of the audio chain. If ANY conductor is as good as any other, than why would anyone bother to use anything other than some cheap low grade pot metal ?
The material WILL INDEED make a difference. A pair of 24ga. high purity copper wires in a twisted pair DO NOT sound the same as the same gauge and configuration of silver wire , or even silver plated coppper, or even plain old copper.
Start changing insulating materials and wire geometry and you can notice even more differences.
I would LOVE to hear your system setup with coat hangers VS a pair of CAT5 or CAT6 wires. If you can't hear the difference, then there is something VERY wrong with your setup.
I mean no insult, I just can't believe some of the things I read on the forums , and feel compelled to refute it.
As I said earlier , I am not there to hear your system. I can't hear what you hear. Perhaps in your particular setup , you can't hear the difference between a coathanger and some decent wire. That doesn't mean other people can't.
I don't believe ANYONE should spend hundreds of dollars on interconnects, speaker wires, etc. That is why I DIY.
..................................Blake
At the end of the day a speaker cable simply passes electrons along it.
While there is a difference in cables I would suggest the sound difference is well outside discernible levels for normal people.
While there is a difference in cables I would suggest the sound difference is well outside discernible levels for normal people.
I'm sure there are, and probably better materials than what I am about to show you , but this will work FAR BETTER than your basic twinlead cord.
Dayton S413 13 AWG 4C Speaker Cable 1 ft. | Parts-Express.com
If you were to look at this cable from the end, like down a barrel of a gun , you would see that the 4 conductors are arranged in a clockwise fashion. If you started at 12 o'clock , and marked that one + , then went to 3 o'clock and marked that one - , then 6 o'clock and marked that + , then 9 o'clock and marked that - , you would have a "Star Quad" arrangement (some speaker cables use this) which offers about 35db of RFI attenuation , which is considerabley more than twisted pair and ridiculously more than basic twinlead power cord.
If you went a step further, you could spiral wrap a 10 ga. ground around the outside of this cable, or even use a braided loom for ground (which would offer even better RFI shielding) .
The 13ga. conductors in parallel would be about 10ga. This in conjunction with the very good RFI rejection capabilities of the Star Quad geometry will yield very good results for very low cost.
...........................Blake
Blake, a balanced circuit does not need a neutral conductor or for that matter a connection to ground. But the circuit does need to be symmetrical about ground.
Rod Elliott just edited a good paper on balanced circuits by Bill Whitlock.
"Design of High-Performance Balanced Audio Interfaces"
Bill Whitlock - Jensen Transformers, Inc. (Edited By Rod Elliott)
Balanced Interfaces
Rod Elliott just edited a good paper on balanced circuits by Bill Whitlock.
"Design of High-Performance Balanced Audio Interfaces"
Bill Whitlock - Jensen Transformers, Inc. (Edited By Rod Elliott)
Balanced Interfaces
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