I am looking at a 3 way speaker kit which is a large 3 way stand mount.
What I would like to do is reduce the width from 310mm to 250mm and increase the height to make it a floor stander.
Maybe I would even increase the volume to get more bass and alter the port tuning I am pretty sure I know what to do in that respect but what I am not sure about is baffle step correction.
The design I assume includes baffle step in the crossover but by reducing the width it changes the frequency at which it occurs.
My question is will it affect sound quality and would I hear a difference or would it not matter.
I believe crossover from bass to mid is at 500hz.
What I would like to do is reduce the width from 310mm to 250mm and increase the height to make it a floor stander.
Maybe I would even increase the volume to get more bass and alter the port tuning I am pretty sure I know what to do in that respect but what I am not sure about is baffle step correction.
The design I assume includes baffle step in the crossover but by reducing the width it changes the frequency at which it occurs.
My question is will it affect sound quality and would I hear a difference or would it not matter.
I believe crossover from bass to mid is at 500hz.
It's the Troels Gravesen Sartori SBA 941 kit.
Actually the crossover from Bass to Mid is 580hz.
Don't like to ask him he does not like changes being made.
Actually the crossover from Bass to Mid is 580hz.
Don't like to ask him he does not like changes being made.
Reducing the front baffle to 250mm will be difficult, the driver is 242mm wide so allowing for 0.5mm gap on the cut out that only leave 2.5mm either side to the edge of the baffle. Also it needs a 210mm cutout so any wood thickness over 20mm will leave no room for rebating the rear to let the cone breath.
You are better leaving the baffle the same width and then reducing the depth. Also you can do a combination of reduced depth plus add a false floor part way up the floor standers to get the right volume, length of baffle should make very little difference.
Have a look at the Ekta mk2 Troels design which has a false floor Part way up it to get the right volume. The other benefit is you can put the crossover in that void so keep it away from the pressure in the main volume plus easily accessible for any changes later.
You are better leaving the baffle the same width and then reducing the depth. Also you can do a combination of reduced depth plus add a false floor part way up the floor standers to get the right volume, length of baffle should make very little difference.
Have a look at the Ekta mk2 Troels design which has a false floor Part way up it to get the right volume. The other benefit is you can put the crossover in that void so keep it away from the pressure in the main volume plus easily accessible for any changes later.
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There is nothing more unnatural to a speaker designer than to comment on what would happen if one wanted to modify...so that leaves us having to work with simulation tools and prepare two solutions having exact same variables except for the baffle measures and align those responses to check for differences.
Actually I should have said 260mm wide typo.
Need to make them slim for WAF.
So only 50mm reduction not 60mm
changing the width from 310mm to 260mm changes the baffle step freq from 370Hz to 440 Hz, not too big a change, especially as the crossover point isn't at the baffle step freq.
To put it in a musical perspective, that's 4 semitones, F# to A
If you really want to obsess about it, once you know the parts values you could sim the crossover in Xsim and see if it can be improved, possibly by tweaking C4.
To put it in a musical perspective, that's 4 semitones, F# to A
If you really want to obsess about it, once you know the parts values you could sim the crossover in Xsim and see if it can be improved, possibly by tweaking C4.
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May I ask the obvious question: if you want a floor standing narrow baffle 3 way why have you not opted for a floor standing narrow baffle 3 way design? A 1" tweeter, 4-5" midrange and 2 x 8" woofer is a classic combination arguably the classic configuration these days for a high fidelity speaker for the home.
Keep in mind that increasing the ratio of the height tp width/depth to convert to a floorstander likely also means that it transforms from a BR to an ML-TL so the tuning will also need to be changed.
dave
dave
Was going to put the port just under the bass unit not near the bottom of the cabinet, also may seal the port and use sealed as the speakers would be close to the back wall.
It is still an ML-TL, just not well designed.
To adequately turn the stand mount into a floorstander i would suggest that it needs to be modeled as a TL and take advantage of the change.
dave
To adequately turn the stand mount into a floorstander i would suggest that it needs to be modeled as a TL and take advantage of the change.
dave
Too big in what way? Most have the tweeter at the top and at ear height which gives pretty much the minimum height whether floor standing or on a stand. The width follows from the 8" drivers which is narrower than the 10" driver you were trying to get to work in the OP. The depth can be significant to get a decent volume but this can be varied depending on required bass extension and loading.
I am not sure what you are after in terms of size is coming across clearly. There are of course 1" tweeters 4" mid and 2 x 6.5" woofer designs which are narrower and less deep but usually with the tweeter still around the listening height. Bass response in terms of clean SPL and possibly extension will be surrendered to some extent.
Hi Colmo,
For what it's worth;
- Changing the baffle width is a minor change which you can tweak at the xo.
- trying to change bass response from a known design is likely to work out badly, especially increased volume which will increase potential of response at a cost of accuracy (to me that sound like woomf instead of punch)
- I very much agree that a 3 way based on 2 7.5 or 8" bass drivers would be the way to go, however some points to consider are the size of your listening room and listening volumes.... Especially considering waf. My experience has been that three ways need a good listening distance for the sound to mesh/image properly. Bearing in mind how far driver design has come in the last few years, you could build an astounding WWT 2-way now for a LOT cheaper, smaller and probably very similar performance.
Btw where are you based in the UK? I have boxes full of spare inductors/caps and measurement equipment if you want help with anything. Also happy to make a kit for you if you like, I work with a local carpentry company that CNC machines and finishes cabinets to an exceptional standard. Let me know if you're interested and I'll ping you two designs you may like. Fair warning, one is wall mounted and entirely waf driven.
For what it's worth;
- Changing the baffle width is a minor change which you can tweak at the xo.
- trying to change bass response from a known design is likely to work out badly, especially increased volume which will increase potential of response at a cost of accuracy (to me that sound like woomf instead of punch)
- I very much agree that a 3 way based on 2 7.5 or 8" bass drivers would be the way to go, however some points to consider are the size of your listening room and listening volumes.... Especially considering waf. My experience has been that three ways need a good listening distance for the sound to mesh/image properly. Bearing in mind how far driver design has come in the last few years, you could build an astounding WWT 2-way now for a LOT cheaper, smaller and probably very similar performance.
Btw where are you based in the UK? I have boxes full of spare inductors/caps and measurement equipment if you want help with anything. Also happy to make a kit for you if you like, I work with a local carpentry company that CNC machines and finishes cabinets to an exceptional standard. Let me know if you're interested and I'll ping you two designs you may like. Fair warning, one is wall mounted and entirely waf driven.
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Room is about 18ft x11ft x8 ft.
Speakers are on the 18ft wall so I sit about 8feet away.
Need slimmish speakers for waf and not too deep 12/14 inches they will be close to back wall so may bung ports. I also have a 12 inch Scan Speak sub which is sealed not ported so can use that if bass is down on the mains.
Speakers are on the 18ft wall so I sit about 8feet away.
Need slimmish speakers for waf and not too deep 12/14 inches they will be close to back wall so may bung ports. I also have a 12 inch Scan Speak sub which is sealed not ported so can use that if bass is down on the mains.
The combination of existing sub and room size screams WWT 2 way to me. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what you can achieve with modern drivers. In that size room I dare say a 2 way would give a more coherent sound, Plus with the sub you have the option of a sealed floor standers for lovely tight bass that doesn't wake the neighbours at night time.
Personally I'd go for a pair of 6.5" but you may find a pair of 5" brings you so close to the same performance in a much more waf-package
Personally I'd go for a pair of 6.5" but you may find a pair of 5" brings you so close to the same performance in a much more waf-package