I have yet not played with diamond tweeters nor beryllium, what are the advantages over less costly alternatives? I have seened frequency responses both on and off axis, i have seened distortion graphs, some looks good but not THAT good, i have heard some speakers with diamond tweeters and i can not say they impressed me much, so i am not sure why i should buy me a pair? Please can you tell about the benefits of diamond and beryllium tweeters, thanks! 
The tweeters tend to be compeletely pistonic in the audio range (their breakup frequency is therefore outside of the frequencyband). This is because beryllium is extremely stiff.
Also because beryllium is so light, the time domain distortion (csd, impulse/step response) is really good.
Though I must admit that beryllium ( and diamond even more so) tweeters are not always worth it. They are definitely at the point where you can expect diminishing returns. They tend to be better than normal dome tweeters, but at a price.
Also, off-axis performance is mainly caused by dome shape and how it is mounted in the enclosure.
Also because beryllium is so light, the time domain distortion (csd, impulse/step response) is really good.
Though I must admit that beryllium ( and diamond even more so) tweeters are not always worth it. They are definitely at the point where you can expect diminishing returns. They tend to be better than normal dome tweeters, but at a price.
Also, off-axis performance is mainly caused by dome shape and how it is mounted in the enclosure.
I would rather listen to an inexpensive tweeter implemented well, than an expensive one not so well.
Point is this, assuming the tweeter is a reasonably good performer ( not hard to get today even at less than 50$), then things like how the speaker is "voiced" and careful attention to use a crossover and cabinet shape/size that makes both the tweeter AND mid range happy, can yeald results that make u question the point of an exotic tweeter.
BUT notice I said "can yeald results". It dosent always and sometimes the performance advantage of exotic tweeters its not simply piston operation. There are other details that tend to get more attention in the more expensive drivers like motor linearity, suspension linearity, X max,power handling, and a low Fs. All of which can go a long way to easily getting things to work well.
Point is this, assuming the tweeter is a reasonably good performer ( not hard to get today even at less than 50$), then things like how the speaker is "voiced" and careful attention to use a crossover and cabinet shape/size that makes both the tweeter AND mid range happy, can yeald results that make u question the point of an exotic tweeter.
BUT notice I said "can yeald results". It dosent always and sometimes the performance advantage of exotic tweeters its not simply piston operation. There are other details that tend to get more attention in the more expensive drivers like motor linearity, suspension linearity, X max,power handling, and a low Fs. All of which can go a long way to easily getting things to work well.
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Theoretically it might be; the higher above the audio BW the bell-mode is, the less potential there should be for IMD issues lower down in the audio band. However, this presupposes that the distortion levels will be problematic in the first place, and since that depends on other aspects of the driver design, there's no single answer to that. As noted, you can have a high priced tweeter with all the fancy materials in the world, but if it's badly implemented, it will probably give inferior results to a decent example of a cheaper tweeter that's been properly implemented. Suffice it to say, on paper there can be advantages, but they're implementation & circumstance specific.
Hi celef,
I like to distinguish really good Be tweeters from the typical micromotors used by Focal. B&W also uses micromotor tweeters, but theirs are diamond dust.
In both cases I'm left feeling that they add unnatural detail and air.
However, based on spec, construction and listening I would not put them in the same category as the best available. I might even argue that some of the best AMTs are going to be technically superior, having lower distortion and greater dynamic range (lack of compression). There are also some really great bargains at the $100 level or less if you like ring radiators.
One oddity about our hobby is that a top notch tweeter can go for a lot more than we end up paying for woofers!
In my case I spent 2x on the tweeters. Go figure!
Best,
E
I like to distinguish really good Be tweeters from the typical micromotors used by Focal. B&W also uses micromotor tweeters, but theirs are diamond dust.
In both cases I'm left feeling that they add unnatural detail and air.
However, based on spec, construction and listening I would not put them in the same category as the best available. I might even argue that some of the best AMTs are going to be technically superior, having lower distortion and greater dynamic range (lack of compression). There are also some really great bargains at the $100 level or less if you like ring radiators.
One oddity about our hobby is that a top notch tweeter can go for a lot more than we end up paying for woofers!
In my case I spent 2x on the tweeters. Go figure! Best,
E
I have the same compression drivers with both aluminum and Beryllium diaphragm's and they are different but it's not a day or night difference. The Be sounds cleaner and faster with more detail but to me it's subtle. It's kind of like squeaking out that last couple of percent. I would do some comparisons if you can to see if you think it's worth the cost differences. I could happily live with the aluminum drivers if need be.
Rob
Rob
low cost: spend on low diffraction cabinets... big-rounds or big-bevels on baffle
medium cost: spend on "better grade" medium cost drivers (like SB_Satori)
low cost: with "better grade drivers" spend on modest cost circuits which generate modest phase shift crossovers
--stepped baffles for time alignment OR phase shift'ing crossovers for time alignment around the crossover
----simulation shows good square waves and good impulse response
high cost: spend on DSP with one-amp-per-range
----simulation shows excellent square waves and impulse response
==============
high cost: spend on exotic drivers... with PLANNED integration into your design
---NOW...honest improvements from Be tweeters can be evaluated
My wife and I agree.... until you have a full DSP design.... Be or Diamond tweeters are a marketing play, and not a cost effective engineering improvement.
medium cost: spend on "better grade" medium cost drivers (like SB_Satori)
low cost: with "better grade drivers" spend on modest cost circuits which generate modest phase shift crossovers
--stepped baffles for time alignment OR phase shift'ing crossovers for time alignment around the crossover
----simulation shows good square waves and good impulse response
high cost: spend on DSP with one-amp-per-range
----simulation shows excellent square waves and impulse response
==============
high cost: spend on exotic drivers... with PLANNED integration into your design
---NOW...honest improvements from Be tweeters can be evaluated
My wife and I agree.... until you have a full DSP design.... Be or Diamond tweeters are a marketing play, and not a cost effective engineering improvement.
Page 16 & 17 of this PDF (.."Technical Paper" page 6 & 7):
https://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/07_Misc_Downloads/Fostex_NF-1_White_Paper.pdf
https://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/07_Misc_Downloads/Fostex_NF-1_White_Paper.pdf
Polypropylene. That famous material used in tweeters the world over, and of deep relevance to this thread, since the requirements for a tweeter and a woofer are, as the world in general knows, exactly the same, and no possibility of differences in engineering requirements and approach can ever be countenanced.
I don't quite follow why the speed of sound within a cone/dome material would matter although in an ideal world it probably would be zero.
That would at least stop any reflections from the back wave exiting through the cone.
It is related to the resonance frequencies of the cone or dome itself. Hard cones avoid cone resonances by making sure they occur at frequencies above the pass band, soft cones (poly cone, fabric dome) have them within the pass band and solve them by adding damping. A high resonance frequency requires a high speed of sound.
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