Charlie, That actually was my second attempt where we then got it right. I actually measured the measuring stick guage for elongation at 12 3/8 rather than 12 3/16...
Thank god I had a assistance from a buddy who questioned my measurments and has provided me a second set of eyes and brain!
I took a Ferris Buler day off today to wait for a plumber, and to complete the next phase of this build.
I just sprayed the Licron and there is also a learning curve here as well. I had to go back over the panels using a brush to evenly distribute the possibly oversprayed areas. The humidity is too great as one would imagine Miami in the summer time is, so I took the panels inside to dry and droped the temp to 74 deg F. The panels seem to have a have which I hope should even out or disappear once it is completely dryed.
More pictures to follow shortly.
Thank god I had a assistance from a buddy who questioned my measurments and has provided me a second set of eyes and brain!
I took a Ferris Buler day off today to wait for a plumber, and to complete the next phase of this build.
I just sprayed the Licron and there is also a learning curve here as well. I had to go back over the panels using a brush to evenly distribute the possibly oversprayed areas. The humidity is too great as one would imagine Miami in the summer time is, so I took the panels inside to dry and droped the temp to 74 deg F. The panels seem to have a have which I hope should even out or disappear once it is completely dryed.
More pictures to follow shortly.
If you went over it with a brush there will be some prismatic streaking but not to worry-- it will sound fine.
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Thanks Charlie, now my heart can re-start!
Charlie I was laying out my electronics component and noticed that your schematics with the Antec transformers show several additional colors on the primary and secondary winding. I referred back to the mfg website and they revealed essentially a possible error in your drawing. Tell me if this is correct?
July 18, 2011 | Facebook
Charlie I was laying out my electronics component and noticed that your schematics with the Antec transformers show several additional colors on the primary and secondary winding. I referred back to the mfg website and they revealed essentially a possible error in your drawing. Tell me if this is correct?
July 18, 2011 | Facebook
Hello dochungwell,
You might find the following thread to contain some useful information for you concerning the use of small toroidal power transformers for driving full range ESLs. SM7UYJ experienced exactly the saturation problems CharlieM mentioned to you which matched the saturation limits theory predicts fairly well.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/186011-diy-bass-transformer-esls.html#post2520512
The end result of all his experiments was to only use the small toroidal power transformers above 200Hz - 300Hz to avoid distortion from core saturation.
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Hey Bolserst, Thank for the link, it is quite comprehensive. I should have clarified my proposed set-up. I am aware that these panels with 1/16" spacing will be incapable to manage a "full range" sound". As I am about a day away from completing my build, I would venture to guess that the sound should be almost comparable to my.5QR Maggies, excellent in the mid to high frequencies and relatively thin in the low spectrum. I would compensate for that by adding a sub or possibly a Hybrid design. It is highly doubtful I would venture in winding my own trannys. I would perfer to cut to the chase an purchase a set, but I don't think I would ever (Famous last words), build bass ESL panels. Although it sounds possible to build a reasonably decent bass panels, finding an oil burning transformers in Miami Florida would likely be a difficult find.
Jerry
Jerry
Jerry,
I just want to clarify the above information. Yes, you will need some EQ to offset the dipole cancellation. However, the 6db/octave roll-off figure I gave isn't strictly correct for all panel sizes and shapes and listening distances. As I recently learned from one of my mentors here on the forum (Bolserst), the situation is a bit more complicated.
Steve,
You explained the dipole phase cancellation much better than I ever could so I hope you won't mind that I'm quoting below the info you sent me:
"A square or circular ESL does have a clear break point where dipole phase cancellation starts rolling off the response by -6db/octave.
Line sources are a bit more complicated since the ESL now has two different dimensions.
Thinking about an infinitely long line source, the dipole cancellation only occurs around the width of the panel, none around the length dimension. The result is that the response rolls off at -3dB/octave.
Now consider a finite length line source like your ESL that is 48” x 12”. The response will roll off at -3dB/octave until you reach a frequency where dipole cancellation transitions to cancelling around the length as well as the width, and the roll off rate increases to -6dB/octave. Of course and additional width from baffles and proximity to the floor modifies the response a bit, but the -3dB to -6dB transition is still there.
The real complication is that the transition frequency is a function of not just the ESL line length, but the listening distance too. If you measure response at 3ft, 6ft, 9ft, 12ft, you can see the transition point move up in frequency. You probably noticed that as you walk toward you ESL the low end gets lifted. This is also why many people’s ESLs sound anemic. They EQ the ESL based on measurements at 3ft-6ft and then listen to them at 12ft.
In any case, the frequency that transition from partial to full dipole cancellation occurs at:
F= c x distance / len^2
or in terms of wavelength
Lwav = len^2/distance
Where:
C = speed of sound = 13,390 inches/sec
F = frequency of transition
Lwav = wavelength of transition (inches)
Len = length of ESL line source
Distance = listening distance.
For your 12" x 48” line source, this transition takes place at about 420Hz. So above that, the slope would be -3dB/oct. Below that, the slope transitions to -6dB/oct."
Keep plugging on that ESL, Jerry!
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Well I completed the panels last night with only one issue identified by friend assisting me throughout this build....Drum roll.......I was truley amazed by the definition detail, and accuracy by these ESL panels. We were able to compare the sound side by side with my .5QR Maggies and ultimately to be brief, they pale in comparison.
I would like to thanks the the three individulas who has been supportive throughout this build, CharlieM, Wachara C and Jer Frye, or as I will refer to you all as.. The father, the son and the Holy Ghost. LOL
You all have been a great resource in every aspect of this build and now that they are complete I can begin to explore and tweak and hopefully contribute some meaningful information.
Thanks again,
Jerry
I would like to thanks the the three individulas who has been supportive throughout this build, CharlieM, Wachara C and Jer Frye, or as I will refer to you all as.. The father, the son and the Holy Ghost. LOL
You all have been a great resource in every aspect of this build and now that they are complete I can begin to explore and tweak and hopefully contribute some meaningful information.
Thanks again,
Jerry
Congratulations! I would love to see your panels photos.
By the way, do you mean your Maggies sound pale as compared to your ESL?
Wachara C.
By the way, do you mean your Maggies sound pale as compared to your ESL?
Wachara C.
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That is Super, Jerry, Great news indeed!!!!
Lets know some more when you are able to pick your jaw up off of the the floor and utter some thing!! 🙂 Lol !!!
At least thats how I felt when I had got mine going again after 7 years with a decent drive system. 🙂
Cheers !!!! jer
Lets know some more when you are able to pick your jaw up off of the the floor and utter some thing!! 🙂 Lol !!!
At least thats how I felt when I had got mine going again after 7 years with a decent drive system. 🙂
Cheers !!!! jer
FANTASTIC JERRY !!!
I saw that you were very methodical and carefull and patient with your build so I had no doubt the results would be jaw-dropping. And they will sound even better after you can get them bi-amp'd and matched up with some good woofers and properly EQ'd.
GREAT JOB!
Jazz
ps > check your messages
I saw that you were very methodical and carefull and patient with your build so I had no doubt the results would be jaw-dropping. And they will sound even better after you can get them bi-amp'd and matched up with some good woofers and properly EQ'd.
GREAT JOB!
Jazz
ps > check your messages
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