Dear Steve M,
I am about to make the plans for the TL subwoofer. (Rob Mackinlay said that they match resonably well with ESLs- and they try some isobarik designs 45lt with 25hz -3db).I decided to go with Scan-speak 21w/8555-00 with a line measuring about 4.1m and tapered from 1.5-2Sd to 1.2-Sd. But I can't exactly make a good plan cause the liters are sometimes more than 160L or less than 110L and line measures eather lower than 3.5m or higher... So the volume place a big role here or it's more important to make the exact line length? Is the Scan-speak 21/8555-00 suitable as I have conluded with really low fs and Mms of 32g? Could I get 28hz -3db as in a typical BR?
I have except for Sheldon Stoke's design style, a ready plan from AOS but it's hard to understand how it's constructed!....
What do you think?
I am about to make the plans for the TL subwoofer. (Rob Mackinlay said that they match resonably well with ESLs- and they try some isobarik designs 45lt with 25hz -3db).I decided to go with Scan-speak 21w/8555-00 with a line measuring about 4.1m and tapered from 1.5-2Sd to 1.2-Sd. But I can't exactly make a good plan cause the liters are sometimes more than 160L or less than 110L and line measures eather lower than 3.5m or higher... So the volume place a big role here or it's more important to make the exact line length? Is the Scan-speak 21/8555-00 suitable as I have conluded with really low fs and Mms of 32g? Could I get 28hz -3db as in a typical BR?
I have except for Sheldon Stoke's design style, a ready plan from AOS but it's hard to understand how it's constructed!....
What do you think?
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About low fr. reproduced in rooms... the room is no limitation. IOW a 13Hz wave will energize the room and also "better" than frequencies equal to or shorter than the room size... it´s called "cabin gain". How do you think headphones work? 😉
As for high current amps, check out LC audio.
/Peter
As for high current amps, check out LC audio.
/Peter
Well thanks for the reply Peter once again...So I need some suggestions about the compatibility of the Scan-speak 8555-00 in a TL line subwoofer...Also I couldn't find any plate amplifiers in the LC Audio, can you make a more specific link... (I have found only high current amps)?
Regards
Michael
Regards
Michael
Michael,
I have no experience with TL´s whatsoever, sorry. 🙁
All LC audio amps can drive low impedances and put out lots of current if the PS is upp to it.
The cheapest solution is the Zapulse. I use the class A amps Zapsolute myself and even though I have not listened to Zapulse myself I´d guess it´s a very good amp for low range and a very high value (good price/performance).
Good luck!
/Peter
I have no experience with TL´s whatsoever, sorry. 🙁
All LC audio amps can drive low impedances and put out lots of current if the PS is upp to it.
The cheapest solution is the Zapulse. I use the class A amps Zapsolute myself and even though I have not listened to Zapulse myself I´d guess it´s a very good amp for low range and a very high value (good price/performance).
Good luck!
/Peter
One more thing to consider
After living with the ESL-III speakers for a year and a half now and got over the initial shock of its clarity and speed, while crossing over at 80hz to a subwoofer capable of 20hz reproduction, even with the bass contour network I felt something was missing, I prefer the speakers without the network, Last week I install a Behringer DEQ2496 into the system, using the RTA and microphone confirmed the panel start to roll off at about 400 hz, which was predicted in Roger Sanders ESL book, I would suggest using active equalization for the panels or crossover high enough to not have the dipole cancellation effect, but I have to say the Behringer is the best $300.00 that I have ever spend, using digital equalization the speakers are now absolutely incredible, now combined the speed and clarity with warmth and weight, stunning! I love it.
After living with the ESL-III speakers for a year and a half now and got over the initial shock of its clarity and speed, while crossing over at 80hz to a subwoofer capable of 20hz reproduction, even with the bass contour network I felt something was missing, I prefer the speakers without the network, Last week I install a Behringer DEQ2496 into the system, using the RTA and microphone confirmed the panel start to roll off at about 400 hz, which was predicted in Roger Sanders ESL book, I would suggest using active equalization for the panels or crossover high enough to not have the dipole cancellation effect, but I have to say the Behringer is the best $300.00 that I have ever spend, using digital equalization the speakers are now absolutely incredible, now combined the speed and clarity with warmth and weight, stunning! I love it.
I just read you reply after about 35 days 😱 Can you tell me how you connected your amp(s), cd player, ESL iii and cables with the DEQ2496 Behringer? How about the new Isobaric subs from Rob Mackinlay using XLS 8" version. Can you tell me more of the roll off that Rogers stated? What causes it? Is it the cause of the thinniness in the sound of electrostats? Which woofers do you use in your sub and in which configuration? (Sealed,BR, Isob.Dipole,TL) ? Why not DCX2496?
Thanks in advance,
Michael
Thanks in advance,
Michael
When I measure my ESL-III the response were quite similar to the curve illustrated in Roger Sanders book, the roll off of the low frequency are due to dipole cancelation. My subwoofer is a Muse 18, which uses two 10 drivers in a bandpass bottom slot loaded in a 2x2x2 ft 150lb cube, it has a built in amplifer with the crossover frequencies set by using different personality card designed for the particular speakers, I am using the card designed for the Quad 63, I think the crossover point is about 80hz, thus leave me a dip through the upperbass and lower midrange. I also own a pair of Quad 57's, it does have more bass than the ESL-III, but I can play the ESL-III very loud without worry about arcing, and the detail and clarity of the ESL-III is in another league. I use the Behringer in the digital in digital out fashion, since the subwoofer has a built in crossover I did not consider the DCX2496. I just notice a big price drop in the DCX2496 in the U.S., the price is around $250.00 it is very tempting to try it myself. Michael if you are serious about building electrostatic speakers, you should purchase Sander's book, there are a lot of informations on the subject, Sander is an advocate of mating transmission line woofers with ESL's, my idea is to equalize the esl panels to fill in the dip and keep the woofers crossover frequency low, so the panels run as fullrange as possible. I am no expert in speaker building, but the journey has been lots of fun.
Have you got any problems when playing back complex material or bass heavy ones in the ESLs III? What type of music can't be played back through ESLs III very well? Have you compared it to other more expensive systems and which were they? Can you name some other weaknesses of ESL III?
Thanks in advance for the info,
Regards Michael
Thanks in advance for the info,
Regards Michael
I have to build them first and then we can see... thanks BTW,
Have you tried it? Is it easy to find it now as an old model?
Michael
Have you tried it? Is it easy to find it now as an old model?
Michael
I have tried them with difficult conventional loads and they work really well, but never unfortunately with ESLs. They are available second hand, but some are a little overpriced as they are collectable.
Can you please answer some of my previous questions shooter (see below)? 🙄
I will be buying them in a couple of months and I want to know as much as possible, although never listening to them first-person,,,
"Have you got any problems when playing back complex material or bass heavy ones in the ESLs III? What type of music can't be played back through ESLs III very well? Have you compared it to other more expensive systems and which were they? Can you name some other weaknesses of ESL III?"
Do they lack now the mid-bass richness of wooden instruments for example? Did they lack it before?
Thank you very much in advance.
Michael
I will be buying them in a couple of months and I want to know as much as possible, although never listening to them first-person,,,
"Have you got any problems when playing back complex material or bass heavy ones in the ESLs III? What type of music can't be played back through ESLs III very well? Have you compared it to other more expensive systems and which were they? Can you name some other weaknesses of ESL III?"
Do they lack now the mid-bass richness of wooden instruments for example? Did they lack it before?
Thank you very much in advance.
Michael
Rob mackinlay from ER-AUDIO will be introducing in a couple of weeks his new Isobaric subs. They won't be clamshell design, the will have 150w plate from Switzerland and a pair of peerless 8" XLS (custom version/not absolutely sure)-see pic. They will have 25 hz in room response with a bit of equalisation... Their crossover will be 180hz. Also he will introduce the ESL IIIb, the flat version of the ESL-III and the Acorn ESL which will have 60% biger diaphragm surface than ESLIII. A have the pictures of their prototypes from Rob, but I don't know if he wants them to be on the net yet
What do you think Steve M about these subs (pair)?.
What do you think Steve M about these subs (pair)?.
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Here's a picture of Acorn Electrostats by Rob Mackinlay. This is not the finished version of course. A picture of it was first uploaded in Audio Asylum in http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/75899.html
so there isn't a problem to upload one more here🙂
so there isn't a problem to upload one more here🙂
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I'm using TL subs with my open baffle speakers and they work very well - even driven by a Gainclone! 
The TLs work very well with the OB's as regards speed etc BUT I do notice when playing around with that set up that the more dipole I have the better the sound! In other words, if I take the subs up higher because I remove the glass wings of the OB, it doesn't sound quite as good.
Basically you have to accept with TL subs that they are going to be big. I designed mine to go behind the OB's so at least while I am listening, I am not aware of them.
My OB's are what I hope to be a step along the road to some ESL's!
You can read all the details here
The TLs work very well with the OB's as regards speed etc BUT I do notice when playing around with that set up that the more dipole I have the better the sound! In other words, if I take the subs up higher because I remove the glass wings of the OB, it doesn't sound quite as good.
Basically you have to accept with TL subs that they are going to be big. I designed mine to go behind the OB's so at least while I am listening, I am not aware of them.
My OB's are what I hope to be a step along the road to some ESL's!
You can read all the details here
Thanks for the links Nuuk.🙂
Steve M any news with your new TL subwoofer using big Focal kevlar woofers?
It seems I will be buying Rob Mackinlay's isobaric subs that can be attached in the ESL III cabinet as shown in the pic. What's your opinions Steve M or any other? Can that affect the sound of the electrostat? If so, should I put the separate boxes near the panels?
Thanks in advance.
Steve M any news with your new TL subwoofer using big Focal kevlar woofers?
It seems I will be buying Rob Mackinlay's isobaric subs that can be attached in the ESL III cabinet as shown in the pic. What's your opinions Steve M or any other? Can that affect the sound of the electrostat? If so, should I put the separate boxes near the panels?
Thanks in advance.
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