World’s Best Speakers! - YouTube
This guy employs engineering and scientific methods in creating what he says are the world's best speakers. These might make good PA speakers for permanent installation. I think these speakers have the potential to provide accurate sound and superb coverage in most spaces and they are cheap to build.
:eek:Trigger Warning: Some of the content in the video may trigger cognitive dissonance and hostility in sensitive individuals. Most of you will enjoy it. 🙂
Give me your thoughts on the video.
Thank you.\
This guy employs engineering and scientific methods in creating what he says are the world's best speakers. These might make good PA speakers for permanent installation. I think these speakers have the potential to provide accurate sound and superb coverage in most spaces and they are cheap to build.
:eek:Trigger Warning: Some of the content in the video may trigger cognitive dissonance and hostility in sensitive individuals. Most of you will enjoy it. 🙂
Give me your thoughts on the video.
Thank you.\
Stereo imaging is a mess, probably caused by the resonant peaks of the panels being in different places, and the bass is all over the place - certainly doesn't sound accurate to me. Would be good for background music in restaurants etc. (mounted in the ceiling?) and I guess the SPL doesn't fall off much with distance unlike a point source, but wouldn't cut it for a live band
Brian
Brian
If you watched the whole video to the end he compares the peaks to a Polk speaker. The panels performed better on the graph.
I think you'd have to be in the room to judge them fairly. The charts he presented show where the peaks are in all the various panels. When he combined 8 different panels the graph smoothed out. AND... he didn't do any EQing.
I think you'd have to be in the room to judge them fairly. The charts he presented show where the peaks are in all the various panels. When he combined 8 different panels the graph smoothed out. AND... he didn't do any EQing.
I did, but none of the measurements were anechoic, there didn't appear to be any damping in the room and he measured the speaker while holding it, so I'd take all those measurements with a large pinch of salt
Ignoring all that, it still sounded messy. Impressive for what it was, but no more
Brian
Ignoring all that, it still sounded messy. Impressive for what it was, but no more
Brian
Starting a new thread to discuss the same topic is prohibited.
BUT you are doing exactly that.
This thread is the continuation of your post#50 in the closed thread.
Your Dream PA: What In Your Wildest Dreams Be The Best PA?
about placing transducers on random surfaces.
Sadly performance is abysmal, both in SPL, smoothness and bandwidth .
BUT you are doing exactly that.
This thread is the continuation of your post#50 in the closed thread.
Your Dream PA: What In Your Wildest Dreams Be The Best PA?
about placing transducers on random surfaces.
Sadly performance is abysmal, both in SPL, smoothness and bandwidth .
Attachments
It's not a new idea- I know Elac made some commercial speakers that looked like paintings about 20 years ago, and I do not believe they were the first to do it. I have a pair up in my attic (along with some spare exciters), though I really haven't had the time to do much with them. Unfortunately, there's no way to change the artwork on them, so if you think the painting is ugly, well, you're sort of stuck with it.
His testing methodology is missing some critical information. I would have really liked to see harmonic distortion measurements, and (unless I missed it) he did not measure the sensitivity of the panels.
Directionality is another concern, and his measurements don't really show it. In commercial sound, directionality is a huge deal because it gives engineers more control- they're able to better optimize the system and compensate for room artifacts. This is why line arrays have become so prevalent.
Dynamics is another issue that is interesting to look at, and it's something that probably doesn't get as much attention as it should. I did a comparison between some Elac 510s and some Quested Q108s recently. They both have a very flat response curve, but the difference is pretty eye-opening.
Now, this isn't to say the panels presented in this video don't hold significant potential. It's an interesting idea, but there are definitely measurements that I would like to see.
As a side note, I would note that the level of engineering / scientific method is not at all unusual in this industry. I've had the privilege of getting to hear from some engineers at L-Acoustics about the kind of things they're working on, and it's pretty impressive. Of course, if I remember correctly the founder of L-Acoustics has a PhD in physics. While some of the boutique audiophile manufacturers cloud the air with BS, most of the really good companies generally take a very scientific and engineering-based approach.
Acoustics and loudspeaker design is not my main focus. It's something I find interesting and play with (when I have time...), but my primary focus is in amplifiers and mixing consoles, so my comments may be missing other key issues. As others have noted, the measurements don't look particularly good, but it's hard to tell just how much of that is related to the acoustics of the room.
His testing methodology is missing some critical information. I would have really liked to see harmonic distortion measurements, and (unless I missed it) he did not measure the sensitivity of the panels.
Directionality is another concern, and his measurements don't really show it. In commercial sound, directionality is a huge deal because it gives engineers more control- they're able to better optimize the system and compensate for room artifacts. This is why line arrays have become so prevalent.
Dynamics is another issue that is interesting to look at, and it's something that probably doesn't get as much attention as it should. I did a comparison between some Elac 510s and some Quested Q108s recently. They both have a very flat response curve, but the difference is pretty eye-opening.
Now, this isn't to say the panels presented in this video don't hold significant potential. It's an interesting idea, but there are definitely measurements that I would like to see.
As a side note, I would note that the level of engineering / scientific method is not at all unusual in this industry. I've had the privilege of getting to hear from some engineers at L-Acoustics about the kind of things they're working on, and it's pretty impressive. Of course, if I remember correctly the founder of L-Acoustics has a PhD in physics. While some of the boutique audiophile manufacturers cloud the air with BS, most of the really good companies generally take a very scientific and engineering-based approach.
Acoustics and loudspeaker design is not my main focus. It's something I find interesting and play with (when I have time...), but my primary focus is in amplifiers and mixing consoles, so my comments may be missing other key issues. As others have noted, the measurements don't look particularly good, but it's hard to tell just how much of that is related to the acoustics of the room.
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Thank you! I needed a good laugh this morning!
(And, thank goodness for "fast forward". I'm sure the guy is completely serious, but ...)
He compared them to Polk speakers in a real world situation. I don't know if got the data by putting mics close or used them as room mics. In other videos he tests speaker an anechoic chamber and there he tested enclosure materials.
I think we were hearing a lot of the room and the room was an untreated large room. Either way, his combinations of speaker materials created an flatter response than the reference speaker.
Panel speakers are nothing new but his material testing was very informative.
That was not the point of the experiment. He was comparing the performance of the panel speakers to point source Polk speakers and the panel speakers on paper out performed the reference speakers.
As to the sound he recorded, he recorded the room so the resonant peaks you were hearing had to do with the room. The room was untreated.
I too was thinking that ceiling mounting would be the way to use these.
I think the challenge like with any speakers would be room placement but I suspect these speakers will perform more like line array than point source.
I wish he had close miced the panels in different areas and showed where the sweet spots are. I would also be interested in how these panels would work as instrument speakers. I think they may work in guitar amps. What do think?
They've been around a while. I think they go back to the 1960's but I don't know how much development has happened since their inception.
There is a lot of industry hype tossed at audophiles.
In my thread that trolls got closed. I speculated about a PA that can electronically do room treatment such as echo reduction/cancellation, dynamic EQ.
I find these speakers intriguing and is suspect that one reason they are not being pursued commercially is their size.
Real world is not under your arm...
He could have taken say 5 different bookshelf speakers with peaks in different places and it would have had the same effect. There is a reason that people do not do this and it is evident in the recording - stereo image suffers and it sounds a mess
Brian
This video has been posted before - recently. There are already long running threads about DML panels here, and some products on the commercial PA market. I've heard a few.
Nothing new, nothing earth shattering.
Nothing new, nothing earth shattering.
That video has shown up in a number of threads. He does some interesting stuff but you have to know more than he does to know when he is going of into the boonies.
World’s best loudspeaker. BS. As has been said many times, define “best”
Different needs need different solutions.
dave
I have a set in my basement (Divas) and had a different (much inferior) set in high school (late 60s).
dave
What I liked was his testing of materials and shapes and graphing. He only scratched the surface. The testing and shaping of panels of different materials to get a flatter response is a step forward.
He only tested a few available materials.
Here are two audio engineers discussing the advantages of these speakers. DML Benefits Summarized - YouTube
I liken this to electric cars vs gasoline powered cars. The technology for the first electric cars never advanced while gasoline engine cars kept advancing to the point now where EVs may have already surpassed the internal combustion engine cars and with Toyota's new batteries and solar powered cars along with Tesla, and Ford making breakthroughs internal combustion cars will be obsolete. We probably could have had EVs in the 1950's.
A lot of what gives conventional speakers their character are their cones. I think they have reached their zenith. Panels are new old technology that has probably not reached its zenith. The technology is probably still in its infancy. Material testing may reveal a material or materials that will out perform what is being used on conventional speakers. Perhaps a panel can be comprised of hard soft resonate and dampening materials in the right combinations?
Engineers think like engineers and scientists think like scientists in order to do their jobs. Scientists discover breakthroughs and engineers apply and turn those breakthroughs into designs and technologies.
IMO a lot of things should tested such as experiments with phasing, push pull configurations, putting panels in enclosures, using panels are passive radiators etc...
When you were in the room with the guy testing the panels did you discuss that with him? What did he tell you?
When you were in the room were you aware that he was using a separate power amps for each side?
Me? I only got to hear what was picked up by room mics and then that sound was sent through Youtube compression so I can't honestly judge the quality since I was not in the room.
while DML's are a neat concept they are far less efficient then conventional dymamic loudspeakers.
could you please elaborate how separate power amps is significant?
here's a thread you may find interesting A Study of DML's as a Full Range Speaker
and here's a little something on electric cars The History of the Electric Car | Department of Energy
could you please elaborate how separate power amps is significant?
here's a thread you may find interesting A Study of DML's as a Full Range Speaker
and here's a little something on electric cars The History of the Electric Car | Department of Energy
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You noticed. That was a pretty important thing to avoid. What really can you tell from a response plot?
The title is clickbait.
Someone complained about the stereo imaging and I think that using the two amps/receivers essentially turned the whole array into something closer to mono.
From what I'm gathering, in spite of DML being around for quite some time they still may be in their infancy. Does anyone know what their theoretical limits are?
That's a long and interesting thread with some nice testing.
I'm thinking materials may be part of the key to getting high SPLs and ideal frequency responses. Blow molded plastics may be a good items to test. Once a design is created it could be made for little cost. It would be interesting to hear how an exciter sounds on a plastic bottle.
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Harmonic distortion is terrible. He hasn’t measured it and I suspect that is on purpose, because he knows it would reveal the real flaw with this approach.
These might be marginally acceptable to some people, but certainly would be unlistenable to an audiophile.
Can the harmonic distortion ever be reduced to an acceptable level in these panels? I don’t know. I suspect not.
But anyone who really wants to promote this approach has to find a way to get rid of it first before expecting any serious attention to the subject.
These might be marginally acceptable to some people, but certainly would be unlistenable to an audiophile.
Can the harmonic distortion ever be reduced to an acceptable level in these panels? I don’t know. I suspect not.
But anyone who really wants to promote this approach has to find a way to get rid of it first before expecting any serious attention to the subject.
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