Yes you are right. But it took about two hours for me to change drivers from stock EL70 to EL70eN and make some visual changes to the cabinet. Sound memory isn't very long but I remember my initial impression was warmer sound, maybe a little less treble and quite a bit more bass in the 50-60Hz region.
I don't agree with him. What else is there to say. He claimed X. I heard Y. Read the last part of the technical thread. I've offered to help him. You're so far off base here.
No, I'm not. It make me mad when people try to bully others. I'm glad he doesn't take it personally, but I do for him. People like you need to be called out when they call other liars simply for disagreeing with them. If people only stand up for themselves and not others then the only people left standing would be people like you. That is why I'm not out of line for defending him on this. You need to do what is right.
And have been aimed at information coherence and dispersion of that coherent and balanced signal, not frequency response, never 20 db room mode changes.
As for requiring astonishingly good equipment to notice a difference? No. Boom boxes will actually show a larger change, but it is in information coherence, not frequency response and certainly not in 20 db room mode changes.
I will point out that everyone appears to go through a similar "growth" of appreciation for prerecorded sound characteristics. Starting with BASS and more of it, to LOUD and more of it, to less harsh please, to more correctly reproducing the three dimensional environment of the recording, to more emotional involvement with the beauty and finesse of the artist portrayed by recorded and played back music. None of these steps are presented to be pejorative, or to belittle someones level of appreciation. Each step requires a different sort of equipment and the equipment meant to satisfy earlier steps doesn't present the later steps well and vice versa.
When our appreciation gets to the point where we are more concerned with the expression of internal gradient structure in tones and transients, EnABL'd drivers will make a significant improvement in how much of that information gets expressed into a room. This information coherence is expressed in a fashion that makes it more accessible, over information that satisfies the needs of earlier steps.
Tux's equipment is exactly what he needs to satisfy the needs he has. These are valid needs and are just as worthy as the needs that are satisfied with "better" equipment. The attributes of an EnABL'd driver do not really pertain in his situation and until Tux's needs change, they are not going to be important in the solution he finds necessary. To belittle him for expressing his opinion is a worthless activity and the resultant angry rhetoric is just plain dumb. And Tux, to make the statement that I, and many others who find EnABL to be all that I have claimed, is nonsense, is just as dumb. The characteristics I point to will be there for you too, when your tastes and needs cause you to become sensitive to them.
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has anyone tried doing this.
Cymatic experiment - YouTube
with round surface, video'd the results, then enabled that surface and tried it again?
i have utterly no knowledge with this stuff, but those patterns and the interfaces between them all bare a very large resemblance to EnABL patterns. it therefore doesn't strike me as being beyond the realms of possibility that the EnABL patters will add dampening barriers/points on the cone surface breaking up these standing resonances and improving the delivery of the driver.
Cymatic experiment - YouTube
with round surface, video'd the results, then enabled that surface and tried it again?
i have utterly no knowledge with this stuff, but those patterns and the interfaces between them all bare a very large resemblance to EnABL patterns. it therefore doesn't strike me as being beyond the realms of possibility that the EnABL patters will add dampening barriers/points on the cone surface breaking up these standing resonances and improving the delivery of the driver.
Bud, you are so right. You said what I meant but in a much less judgmental tone. My tone was affected by how tuxedo discounted your views. In truth, I thought it good to give a discounting to him in turn. If you had done it, which you had the good sense not to, it would have come off as tit for tat. In truth I know that everyone is at a different stage in the game and being judgmental has no place in it. Of course I think sometimes it IS helpful to know what it is like to be on the receiving end as well as the giving end. It makes us more balanced humans.
You have said that enable eliminates bass room modes. You've also said that it allows for dramatically increased off axis dispersion. Those are easily 20db differences, which is where my comment about 20db came from. I agree, that enable is about very small changes, and not in the frequency response. As I mentioned a couple pages back in the technical thread, I believe it is strongly related to CSD (time).
Why do you feel I don't have a need for improved and life like sound?
I think often yourself and others express the difference you hear in an inappropriate way. Some of it is even nonsense. Saying that in a "Listening Impressions" thread is not dumb. It's my impression.
And experience decades of hearingloss 🙄
But you're "pretty confident you will hear the difference" when you get enabled, so i'm sure you will. AT least, while you can see the difference.
If I don't hear a difference, or it's not a significant difference, or it's not a good difference, then I'll say it. No sheep in this house.
gafhenderson
Does this represent what you are expecting, from your testing? If so, then you need to ignore the deceptive change in "sharpness of response that you find at the whizzer top and bottom. In addition to what you have found tap in the middle section of the whizzer. Listen for something that "confuses" you about what you are hearing, likely similar to what you spoke of from the mid portion of the corrugations on the main cone. The triangles are a model of the dimensions you provided and the circles in the corners, as they cross the line of the cone cross section, correspond to the center of where you found the change in behavior.
In any event, if what I have provided looks like what and where you found for a problem, I can provide a pattern guide set for you..
Does this represent what you are expecting, from your testing? If so, then you need to ignore the deceptive change in "sharpness of response that you find at the whizzer top and bottom. In addition to what you have found tap in the middle section of the whizzer. Listen for something that "confuses" you about what you are hearing, likely similar to what you spoke of from the mid portion of the corrugations on the main cone. The triangles are a model of the dimensions you provided and the circles in the corners, as they cross the line of the cone cross section, correspond to the center of where you found the change in behavior.
In any event, if what I have provided looks like what and where you found for a problem, I can provide a pattern guide set for you..
Attachments
confusion is about the best way to describe it. i couldn't really find a phrase to describe the sensation i perceived, i just know i kept going back to those points because it just wasn't right i guess.
i'm going back to it a few times using different percussive materials in order to rule out 'pitch' or 'volume' as the thing i'm picking up. i'll report back once i'm entirely sure of the perceived locations of the anomalies.
i presume there is no problem applying the EnABL process onto the actual corrugation itself?
i'm fairly certain there's a zone about half way up the whizzer, slightly above the scuffed section of the whizzer cone. and there's definitely something just a few mm's below the end of the corrugation.
thanks for your help, i very much appreciate your efforts. i'll report back when i'm 100% sure in my own findings, as i feel correct application would be preferable to aid in your quest. i have 2 of these drivers and i am so far only modifying 1 and playing it by ear. after i think i hear the improvements i want, i'll find a way to test the new frequency responses and make some good quality recordings of the difference between vanilla and modified etc for this thread.
But you will hear a difference, most certainly.
After all, for you it's easy to hear the difference between interconnects, and you're confident you will hear the difference. For someone with reliably perfect 60 years of listening skills like you, why would the difference not be audible or signficant?
That would almost imply your superior electronics don't reveal the difference, just like Ryan's inferior Sherwood electronics. Come on man, we're just waiting for you wax poetic about how enABL made a system that sounds flat like a ruler, into the most 3D experience since Avatar in IMAX. Any other possibility would just imply you have tin ears, because other people in this thread can hear the difference.
Come on, you really expect me to believe your ego won't get in the way of this comparision, when "intelligent and sensitive people" can hear the difference like night and day? Really? OR that you're willing to accept the possibility that your hearing discerning ability is poor?
Seriously man, I am 100% confident you will hear a difference, because any other option is not an option. Even if your ears don't hear a difference, your mind will certainly so long as you know which driver you are listening to. And chalking it down to placebo effect is something only poeple without a potent system do. Someone as sensitive and discerning as you would never fall victim to placebo effect.
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ridiculous scepticism without any repeatable, observed measurements is also as misguided as falling prey to the placebo effect. half this thread is full of petty bickering. its so bad its nearly impossible to find the relevant information to try this out. can you both please have a childish argument over the PM and stop filling up the thread with more crap that has utterly no evidence or worthwhile debate to prove or disprove the actual point of the thread, the EnABL process.
The technical thread is elsewhere.
This is the listening impressions thread, and someone like tuxedocivic should be allowed to post his listening impressions without attacks on his electronics or lack of 60 years of listening skills.
It's as simple as that.
As far as skepticism, yes I"m skeptic. Why wouldn't I be until I try it for myself? I'm certainly not going around saying i'm confident i WILL hear a difference, simply because other people do. I'm not saying I WON'T hear a difference either. But there should be no attacks on people who don't hear a difference, simply because they use different, yet by no quantifiable means inferior, electronics.
Peace.
This is the listening impressions thread, and someone like tuxedocivic should be allowed to post his listening impressions without attacks on his electronics or lack of 60 years of listening skills.
It's as simple as that.
As far as skepticism, yes I"m skeptic. Why wouldn't I be until I try it for myself? I'm certainly not going around saying i'm confident i WILL hear a difference, simply because other people do. I'm not saying I WON'T hear a difference either. But there should be no attacks on people who don't hear a difference, simply because they use different, yet by no quantifiable means inferior, electronics.
Peace.
You have no sense of proportion. This whole argument of mine would never have happened if Tuxedo hadn't called Bud a liar and then never apologized to him. Now THAT is beyond the pale. Furthermore, I would have kept my opinion and my judgement to myself if he had apologized. If you can't handle someone being called out for acting uncivilized then that is a problem. Both sides are NOT equal. I don't judge people for not being at a point where either their equipment or ears can't discern significant sound differences. All i ask is that they have a little humility with people who have spent years to acquire the knowledge, equipment, and expertise to notice those differences. And that includes you, my man.
And please do not say what I will or will not do in the future. You don't know me or what kind of integrity I have.
And please do not say what I will or will not do in the future. You don't know me or what kind of integrity I have.
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The acrylic paint will sag slightly, but it has considerable surface tension and so long as it doesn't run, the sagging is irrelevant.
What you have so far is classical EnABL 1.0 pattern sets. Those anomalies may become more distinct when the patterns you know the location of have been applied and cured for a couple of days.
As nearly as I can tell, without yet having made a cross section model of the main cone, the outer pattern for the whizzer I have shown should drop right onto the cone and be in the correct position. I will know more when I have more time to devote to that model.
Bud
Exeric, would you please show me where I've called Bud a liar? And don't show me somewhere, where I said his claims were outlandish. Because they are in my opinion. If you can't, please stop saying these thing about me. You're far out of line and guilty of your own judgement.
please don't feel like you have to dedicate to much of your time to this, i am in utterly no rush at present and grateful for any help regardless of time frame.
thanks again.