attack Elon Musk not the Idea😀
hes probably right 1) considering the grid isn't 100% fossil fuels and 2)the turbines they use are more efficient than small piston engines.
- Fuel goes straight into the tank, no losses, provided you do not poor it on your shoes. (losses of fuel transport to a gas station are negligible)
- Combustion engines turn fuel straight into motion.
- Cars in the pricing range of a Tesla use tricks to save fuel, e.g. ; kinetically storage of braking energy (Mercedes), switching off half the cilinders, going to ever higher number of gears.
Single way to make E-drives or hybrids 'green' is by getting the juice from abroad.
(I thought this thread was about Mr Musk, not about the pros & cons of electric vehicles)
- Combustion engines turn fuel straight into motion.
- Cars in the pricing range of a Tesla use tricks to save fuel, e.g. ; kinetically storage of braking energy (Mercedes), switching off half the cilinders, going to ever higher number of gears.
Single way to make E-drives or hybrids 'green' is by getting the juice from abroad.
(I thought this thread was about Mr Musk, not about the pros & cons of electric vehicles)
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Don't have to as it's been done hundreds of times before.
Google is your friend here.
Last time I checked I already did efficiency calculations of electric propulsion systems at tech university three decades ago.
Hybrid diesel-electric propulsion systems on yachts have an efficiency benefit, due to the collapsing screw efficiency at low sailing speeds.
It's the rare exception.
Ecological folks are welcome to fool themselves, with or without google.
Hybrid diesel-electric propulsion systems on yachts have an efficiency benefit, due to the collapsing screw efficiency at low sailing speeds.
It's the rare exception.
Ecological folks are welcome to fool themselves, with or without google.
apparently the US Navy has redid the calcs, and decided otherwise.
edit > sometime "the calcs." need to have other factors besides eff. maybe like reliability, and not that the military cares > indeed "green" factors.
BTW yer right small piston engines have no fuel delivery issues. the problem is all the junk coming out the other end of the exhaust pipe.
The oil companies decided we should all travel around in cars is the main problem.
Auto companies playing "their tricks" to make it appear like progress is being made is part of the problem too. GM has been playing around with shutting down half of the cylinders for decades, and still hasn't got it right.
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indeed gasoline enjoys advantages over batteries, but imagine the freedom if you had all the PV power you needed for your house and car. isn't this the Elon Musk vision?
Which Mercedes would that be besides their F1 car?
The road-legal ones you can buy here are petrol/diesel electric hybrids or pure electric. Batteries for those are kindly supplied by Tesla.
They all have regenerative braking but they convert the kinetic energy to electric for storage.
Here is what Mercedes engineers have to say about kinetic storage according to Autocar:
KERS 'not relevant to road cars' | Autocar
Ah, but electric drive is wonderful.
Zero emission in urban areas, silent, next to no vibrations.
Just lately it occured to me that they're ideal for living at more than one location, always charged when plugged in.
A year ago I had to have the car battery exchanged at the airport long term parking lot, waiting for road assistence in the middle of nowhere after a 10 hour flight really sucks.
TV yesterday had an interview with the inventor of Bluetooth, due to his admittance into the hall of fame.
Spotlight | National Inventors Hall of Fame
Haartsen developed Bluetooth while working for the cell phone division of Ericsson, reportedly received a bonus of less than a thousand dollars for his work.
Had he anticipated there'd be 20 billion devices worldwide today that rely on the technology, he might have sung a different story 20 years ago.
In return, Bluetooth might not have become as widespread.
I had the idea of hybrid water-jet drive in the '80s, diesel engines for the main propulsion, and electric motors connected to a PTI (power take-in) on the reduction gear boxes inbetween diesel and water jet.
Vibration is next to non-existent with water jet propulsion, but with a setup designed for top end speed, the gal/nautical mile number can be near to constant. Aka, going slow doesn't save a drop.
In 2002, Luca Bassani came up with the WallyPower, a 118ft yacht with a combined diesel/gas turbine drive (codog) and water jets, 3.9 gal/nm for 100 tons of displacement at slow speed.
Now, fast yachts are built with hybrid diesel/electric drive, also water jets, 2.6 gal/nm for a twice as large displacement.
ISA140 M/Y SILVER WIND | Jachty motorowe | Jachty | SuperJachty
Doesn't make me a visionary.
Incentives create opportunities, which is what Mr Musk does imo.
Zero emission in urban areas, silent, next to no vibrations.
Just lately it occured to me that they're ideal for living at more than one location, always charged when plugged in.
A year ago I had to have the car battery exchanged at the airport long term parking lot, waiting for road assistence in the middle of nowhere after a 10 hour flight really sucks.
TV yesterday had an interview with the inventor of Bluetooth, due to his admittance into the hall of fame.
Spotlight | National Inventors Hall of Fame
Haartsen developed Bluetooth while working for the cell phone division of Ericsson, reportedly received a bonus of less than a thousand dollars for his work.
Had he anticipated there'd be 20 billion devices worldwide today that rely on the technology, he might have sung a different story 20 years ago.
In return, Bluetooth might not have become as widespread.
I had the idea of hybrid water-jet drive in the '80s, diesel engines for the main propulsion, and electric motors connected to a PTI (power take-in) on the reduction gear boxes inbetween diesel and water jet.
Vibration is next to non-existent with water jet propulsion, but with a setup designed for top end speed, the gal/nautical mile number can be near to constant. Aka, going slow doesn't save a drop.
In 2002, Luca Bassani came up with the WallyPower, a 118ft yacht with a combined diesel/gas turbine drive (codog) and water jets, 3.9 gal/nm for 100 tons of displacement at slow speed.
Now, fast yachts are built with hybrid diesel/electric drive, also water jets, 2.6 gal/nm for a twice as large displacement.
ISA140 M/Y SILVER WIND | Jachty motorowe | Jachty | SuperJachty
Doesn't make me a visionary.
Incentives create opportunities, which is what Mr Musk does imo.
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This is exactly the type of conversation I'd imagined
I had / have no intention of attacking either Elon, or the idea of abundant, clean, universally applicable energy sources - but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that we can develop any combination of them or the new infrastructures for their distribution without an ecological price.
Entrepreneurs such as Mr Musk, and countless other less celebrated deserve all the success they can achieve - until we run out of resources, and or the space and "safe enough" methods of sequestering the byproducts and waste that the ever increasing consumption of them that we convince ourselves is sustainable.
I think Mother Nature will have the last laugh - as a species, we just won't be around to share her mirth - now the cockroaches ....
I had / have no intention of attacking either Elon, or the idea of abundant, clean, universally applicable energy sources - but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that we can develop any combination of them or the new infrastructures for their distribution without an ecological price.
Entrepreneurs such as Mr Musk, and countless other less celebrated deserve all the success they can achieve - until we run out of resources, and or the space and "safe enough" methods of sequestering the byproducts and waste that the ever increasing consumption of them that we convince ourselves is sustainable.
I think Mother Nature will have the last laugh - as a species, we just won't be around to share her mirth - now the cockroaches ....
And if you live in an urban area you could probably do most your daily driving electric.
In a couple of years Mercedes, BMW and Toyota will introduce induction charging and you won't even have to plug in anymore at home.
Zero emissions and zero hassle.
On the other hand if you live out in the country and most of your driving is made up of highway miles at a steady and highish speed a hybrid is not for you.
Which incidentally is why a hybrid drive is somewhat pointless for a boat.
Btw Mercedes claims their battery packs are 95% recyclable at the end of their life.
Getting back to Musk -- one of the promotional activities he's engaged in is keeping the stock price up with shills who operate on the various stock market bulletin boards and through the social media etc.
I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't already seen the same thing in the dot-com bubble of 15 years ago. I got in a tangle with someone who, it turned out, worked for one of the investment banks hyping the stock. I won, the stock went from 160 to 2.
Tesla Motors is likely to run out of cash. The company burned $220mm more cash than anticipated in the most recent quarter.
I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't already seen the same thing in the dot-com bubble of 15 years ago. I got in a tangle with someone who, it turned out, worked for one of the investment banks hyping the stock. I won, the stock went from 160 to 2.
Tesla Motors is likely to run out of cash. The company burned $220mm more cash than anticipated in the most recent quarter.
It's crazy to base our future on rare earths. 😕
Will china , Afghanistan , and Chile become the new OPEC (or REPEC) ?
Solar powered pump power projects , molten salt solar capture .... many
better alternatives that are not on a household scale (but could be).
We also use 4X the energy now , as compared to 1970 consumption.
Perhaps Elon's visions will entice others to compete , but on their own ...
they will just consume more ??
OS
Will china , Afghanistan , and Chile become the new OPEC (or REPEC) ?
Solar powered pump power projects , molten salt solar capture .... many
better alternatives that are not on a household scale (but could be).
We also use 4X the energy now , as compared to 1970 consumption.
Perhaps Elon's visions will entice others to compete , but on their own ...
they will just consume more ??
OS
Charles - and what exactly is involved in the recycling process - energy, toxic end products, etc. I think we've all heard stories of what actually happens to a large volume of electronic products that are "recycled" - really that's a polite way of saying - "no longer your problem, mate, but we'll just load 'em all up in a container ship, send them to some third world country, where they'll be "mechanically disassembled" and the precious materials 'recovered' ." apocryphal? perhaps
My son and his business partners recently invested in a BMW i3 ( the first of several they anticipate) - if to be used only for urban knocking about with passengers, with an estimated range of 160km, it might make sense - but considering that they run a small group of restaurants and need to pickup supplies from time to time, the limited cargo capacity would be a worry.
Now, if Tesla, or any of the major players come out with a compact pick-up truck, or urban van sized such as say the Ford Ranger, or Transit Connect (I'm a Ford guy, so those model names came to me first), and with a range of between 250-400km, my calculus as to their practicality could change.
But my other concerns expressed remain - TANSTAAFL
My son and his business partners recently invested in a BMW i3 ( the first of several they anticipate) - if to be used only for urban knocking about with passengers, with an estimated range of 160km, it might make sense - but considering that they run a small group of restaurants and need to pickup supplies from time to time, the limited cargo capacity would be a worry.
Now, if Tesla, or any of the major players come out with a compact pick-up truck, or urban van sized such as say the Ford Ranger, or Transit Connect (I'm a Ford guy, so those model names came to me first), and with a range of between 250-400km, my calculus as to their practicality could change.
But my other concerns expressed remain - TANSTAAFL
I reckon maybe the stock analysts who got their lil weinies roasted in dotcom bust have decided he's really an alien and should be sent packing back to District 9.
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