Cool article Nelson... it will get a link from my TL site.
Just a note to those who want to build something like this.
With two drivers i would think that loading the drivers push-push would gain some advantages in terms of keeping the box from moving around (sonically & physically). A step further might be to take them a step further and make them (push-pull)-(push-push) as in these two examples which might be considered smaller pre-cursors.
Steve's Shiva Woofer and Chris Brady's which were inspired by Steve's (but finished 1st).
And despite its large size, El Pipe-O may well be far to small (actually far to small) to be optimal for the drivers used.
I wondered if the el pipe-o's line was actually big enuff. I don't currently have Martin King's software up & running (%$^& PCs), but i have gotten a preview copy of Rick Shultz's upcoming (audioXpress) alphaTL article. Rick has been using George Augspurger's software to explore quarter-wave space. The alphaTL is a TL with certain variables frozen so that a simple nomograph generated design can easily be produced. El Pipe-O falls into the definition of an alphaTL.
Early in his work, Martin found that TLs were often made with far to little cross-section to get the best performance out of them -- ironic that in a design intended to get magnificent bass, many TL are literally choking their potential. Running the numbers on the MCM drivers in the 144" long pipe, Rick's alphaTL indicates that an optimal pipe for a single one of these drivers is about 20" radius. For 2 drivers a 28" radius is suggested (and over 50 pounds of poly-fluff in each enclosure!).
I will try to get my "PC" up & running and see if i can run some more detailed sims using Martin's sw, but from Rick's work it is suggested that shortening the line and only running one driver per enclosure would actually be more effective.
It would be interesting to see how el pipe-O performed with a single driver in each.
(Note: i can't say much more about the alphaTL until such time as it is published in audioXpress -- but it (and future variations on the same theme from Rick) will make plug-n-play TL design a reality)
I currently have my 1st alphaTL running in my living room, and it is quite promising. The Mk IIs are on the drawing board, and a set of subs using 10" lambdas is in the pre-planning stage (i have to aquire drivers before they are no more).
dave
Just a note to those who want to build something like this.
With two drivers i would think that loading the drivers push-push would gain some advantages in terms of keeping the box from moving around (sonically & physically). A step further might be to take them a step further and make them (push-pull)-(push-push) as in these two examples which might be considered smaller pre-cursors.
Steve's Shiva Woofer and Chris Brady's which were inspired by Steve's (but finished 1st).
And despite its large size, El Pipe-O may well be far to small (actually far to small) to be optimal for the drivers used.
I wondered if the el pipe-o's line was actually big enuff. I don't currently have Martin King's software up & running (%$^& PCs), but i have gotten a preview copy of Rick Shultz's upcoming (audioXpress) alphaTL article. Rick has been using George Augspurger's software to explore quarter-wave space. The alphaTL is a TL with certain variables frozen so that a simple nomograph generated design can easily be produced. El Pipe-O falls into the definition of an alphaTL.
Early in his work, Martin found that TLs were often made with far to little cross-section to get the best performance out of them -- ironic that in a design intended to get magnificent bass, many TL are literally choking their potential. Running the numbers on the MCM drivers in the 144" long pipe, Rick's alphaTL indicates that an optimal pipe for a single one of these drivers is about 20" radius. For 2 drivers a 28" radius is suggested (and over 50 pounds of poly-fluff in each enclosure!).
I will try to get my "PC" up & running and see if i can run some more detailed sims using Martin's sw, but from Rick's work it is suggested that shortening the line and only running one driver per enclosure would actually be more effective.
It would be interesting to see how el pipe-O performed with a single driver in each.
(Note: i can't say much more about the alphaTL until such time as it is published in audioXpress -- but it (and future variations on the same theme from Rick) will make plug-n-play TL design a reality)
I currently have my 1st alphaTL running in my living room, and it is quite promising. The Mk IIs are on the drawing board, and a set of subs using 10" lambdas is in the pre-planning stage (i have to aquire drivers before they are no more).
dave
Nelson Pass said:
:^)
I missed the whole part after the 1st XO... christmas dinner...
very cool. they look better as a single. Properly disguised it would be: "speaker, what speaker ... BTW what do those big columns do?"
dave
If you planned ahead, you could build the TLs into the house, cleverly disguised as columns supporting the ceiling.
Shades of the houses they used to build with concrete horns under the floor...
Grey
Shades of the houses they used to build with concrete horns under the floor...
Grey
planet10 said:
Yeah, if you finish them up nicely enough, those columns look
like funky modern art. 🙂
BTW, the post--party El Pilp-O's have drivers mounted facing
up. It seems then the driver cone will be resting a bit further
in the voice coil. Does this have any appreciable effect on
TS parameters, power handling and general longevity of
the driver? (I'd imagine the effect is minimal with a light
cone and a large magnet.)
Dennis
Finish?
My instructions from Nelson are to either make it look perfect or like I just don't care.
Cyclotronguy
My instructions from Nelson are to either make it look perfect or like I just don't care.
Cyclotronguy
El-Pipe-O's as home decoration...
Actually I was thinking about how El-Pipe-O clones (or
smaller ones) can double as funky home decoration.
Hmmm...there are some 8" drivers in the basement.
Should see if any might be suitable for such a project.
Cheers,
Dennis
Actually I was thinking about how El-Pipe-O clones (or
smaller ones) can double as funky home decoration.
Hmmm...there are some 8" drivers in the basement.
Should see if any might be suitable for such a project.
Cheers,
Dennis
Cool project Nelson, shame my room's far too small
If you all out there can't find the 21" drivers Nelson uses, you might want to look at these Precision Devices drivers, they are widely used in the PA industry, and are absolutely stonking😀
If you all out there can't find the 21" drivers Nelson uses, you might want to look at these Precision Devices drivers, they are widely used in the PA industry, and are absolutely stonking😀
Re: finish
ho is da na meugelek ?
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/steve/index.html
Lieven, das zoe out as de stroat.
me vrendelijke groooten oit Federal Way.
J-P
lieven said:
ho is da na meugelek ?
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/steve/index.html
Lieven, das zoe out as de stroat.
me vrendelijke groooten oit Federal Way.
J-P
Merry Christmas All
I have been playing around with ideas for a new sub, I have been using a single Linkwitz Phoenix using 2 Peerless 12" XLS.
Having just seen this this morning, I shot down to the local concrete builder and aquired 2 12" storm water pipes (plastic), one is 1.5m long and the other is 2.5m long, unfortuanately not the some long length, but that was all be had and I got them for the correct price ($0), so I will have to play with what I've got.
After seeing the single driver. I fell in love, so the 2 tubes in the corners will do.
Now, if my thinking is right, there should be no 6dB baffle step problem, because the floor is infinately wide and if placed in a corner, some more dB in the lower range will also help?
Now out with the saw and router!
Mark
I have been playing around with ideas for a new sub, I have been using a single Linkwitz Phoenix using 2 Peerless 12" XLS.
Having just seen this this morning, I shot down to the local concrete builder and aquired 2 12" storm water pipes (plastic), one is 1.5m long and the other is 2.5m long, unfortuanately not the some long length, but that was all be had and I got them for the correct price ($0), so I will have to play with what I've got.
After seeing the single driver. I fell in love, so the 2 tubes in the corners will do.
Now, if my thinking is right, there should be no 6dB baffle step problem, because the floor is infinately wide and if placed in a corner, some more dB in the lower range will also help?
Now out with the saw and router!
Mark
uvodee
sorry jean-pierre,
dacht werkelijk origineel te zijn, mijn kennis vantengels is nie zo goe.
ps kennekiku?
transaltion:
Sorry, tried to invent warm water it seemed, but NP also did.
Something to add: See for Karlson-coupler: is also based on quarter-wave tube, but with exponential cut-out.
http://home.student.utwente.nl/e.j.j.ulfman/
sorry jean-pierre,
dacht werkelijk origineel te zijn, mijn kennis vantengels is nie zo goe.
ps kennekiku?
transaltion:
Sorry, tried to invent warm water it seemed, but NP also did.
Something to add: See for Karlson-coupler: is also based on quarter-wave tube, but with exponential cut-out.
http://home.student.utwente.nl/e.j.j.ulfman/
"Looks like these suckers can reproduce the brown noise "
That's called El-Pooped-O. 😀
Nelson Pass said:
That's called El-Pooped-O. 😀
In the article the lengh of the pipe is well defined by the wavelenght but it seems that the diameter is only related to the driver's one. Always looked at the pipe organs and wondered how is the pipe diameter calculated. Hints? 😕
could be related to air volume passing trough.
same with bass-reflex tubes: minimum diameter (breathing surface) required for not hearing whispering of air motion.
in other words: to avoid things like brown noises🙂
same with bass-reflex tubes: minimum diameter (breathing surface) required for not hearing whispering of air motion.
in other words: to avoid things like brown noises🙂
Re: uvodee Lieven
nie erg, maar dat np een beetje oude koeien uit de gracht zou halen, dat had ik niet verwacht.
ik denk dat we mekaar nie kennen, woon al een jaarthe of 4 in de US
hebt gij eneige amps of pre amps van NP gemaakt?
ben mijne soz aan het ineenflansen.
lieven said:
nie erg, maar dat np een beetje oude koeien uit de gracht zou halen, dat had ik niet verwacht.
ik denk dat we mekaar nie kennen, woon al een jaarthe of 4 in de US
hebt gij eneige amps of pre amps van NP gemaakt?
ben mijne soz aan het ineenflansen.
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