Sorry I am not trained in this field (ask me a neurology/biochemistry/medical question and I can probably help) but having lived with both supply types I know which one I'd prefer if it was available. I'd be very happy to use twice the voltage and half the current in any electrical item. But of course to each his own - and that's just one of the things that's so great about this forum and it's members. Mike.
I think He made them all great 🙂
One thing I do know is that the grass is always greener ......... 🙂
Have a great one, Mike.
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Very nice thread this! Good luck with the mains blocker seebert. Still think your ropey homemade interconnects are part to blame though...😉
We shall all lay awake at night (like AndrewT) listening to the hum and buzz from all our appliances and wondering if we need one too. 😀
Really quite worried about the proliferation of SMPS power supplies now. Every computer has one, no? 😱
Hey, wait! This means there is free DC on the mains! We should HARNESS it! LOL
We shall all lay awake at night (like AndrewT) listening to the hum and buzz from all our appliances and wondering if we need one too. 😀
Really quite worried about the proliferation of SMPS power supplies now. Every computer has one, no? 😱
Hey, wait! This means there is free DC on the mains! We should HARNESS it! LOL
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Sorry for the absence but haven't been too well.
Okay: More puzzled than ever. I removed the Classe pre from the equation with no effect. Checked all cables and as suggested replaced the Monster IC's with plain Jane el-cheapo IC's (the free really basic leads that come with walkman type gear) and yesterday had ZERO problems with anything !! Slight varying noise on all the big toroidal transformers but no overheating on any amp. Put the Classe DR-5 back into the stream and still zero problems. So basically all I have done is replace one (pre-manufactured - not DIY) interconnect from pre to power amps and now all is okay?
As expected the top end is somewhat 'thin' with the cheapy cable: can I have your suggestions on IC's and speaker leads for my system please. MF Pre24 - Classe DR-5 - Muse160/Threshold S/500 II and SA/3 into either ADS 1230's or IMF TLS 80 II speakers. The current sound is a bit thin but not drastically so - in fact a lot less thin than I expected or maybe I've bought into the 'snake oil' cable hype? I'd still like to try some different cables but am a long way from any dealer to be able to try/borrow demos.
I did buy a pair of TMC XLR IC's from fleabay to try with the Classe into the Muse but haven't got them yet - The Music Cable
The Thresholds of course just have RCA type IC sockets. Anyone know what Thresholds 'like' as IC's?
Thanks guys, Mike.
Okay: More puzzled than ever. I removed the Classe pre from the equation with no effect. Checked all cables and as suggested replaced the Monster IC's with plain Jane el-cheapo IC's (the free really basic leads that come with walkman type gear) and yesterday had ZERO problems with anything !! Slight varying noise on all the big toroidal transformers but no overheating on any amp. Put the Classe DR-5 back into the stream and still zero problems. So basically all I have done is replace one (pre-manufactured - not DIY) interconnect from pre to power amps and now all is okay?
As expected the top end is somewhat 'thin' with the cheapy cable: can I have your suggestions on IC's and speaker leads for my system please. MF Pre24 - Classe DR-5 - Muse160/Threshold S/500 II and SA/3 into either ADS 1230's or IMF TLS 80 II speakers. The current sound is a bit thin but not drastically so - in fact a lot less thin than I expected or maybe I've bought into the 'snake oil' cable hype? I'd still like to try some different cables but am a long way from any dealer to be able to try/borrow demos.
I did buy a pair of TMC XLR IC's from fleabay to try with the Classe into the Muse but haven't got them yet - The Music Cable
The Thresholds of course just have RCA type IC sockets. Anyone know what Thresholds 'like' as IC's?
Thanks guys, Mike.
All Thresholds like insulated copper for interconnects. And I say that without ever having seen any, nor heard any.
Hi Andrew:
Is that because of their 'unique' Pass circuit topology or ?
Copper: solid single (well anything is possible), multi-strand, minimum gauge/strand 'density', silver plated etc? Insulation: poly / PTFE / PVC (ummm) / plain Jane plastic ... what's preferable?
Thanks, Mike.
Is that because of their 'unique' Pass circuit topology or ?
Copper: solid single (well anything is possible), multi-strand, minimum gauge/strand 'density', silver plated etc? Insulation: poly / PTFE / PVC (ummm) / plain Jane plastic ... what's preferable?
Thanks, Mike.
Umm, well gee thanks Andrew. So no other conductor would be any good .. I mean if we're talking science? And the type of insulation doesn't matter either? I thought it did ... like PVC Vs Teflon ... I mean if we're talking science 🙂
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So the patient asks the doc, "what are you gonna use to sew me up after the operation?" The Doc answers somewhat peremptorily,"thread of course". Patient says, "well yes I guessed that, but what kind of thread? I don't know much about medicine but I know there's stuff called Mersilk 0, 00, 000 gauge and so on, and that old style catgut and so on, and umm hey doc it's my body. I'm just asking because I'm interested." Doc answers with obvious disdain, "Look, it's medicine. I'm the trained doc and you're just the patient so don't ask layperson's questions."
Sorry Andrew but that was a bit below the belt don't you think? Like others I come to the forum to seek information from those who have it and who are happy to pass it on to the less informed.
Anyway, have a great day. Mike.
Wire, 202.
I had a long discussion with a gentleman who actually designed wire for a living. Gore Inc. I think. This was when the entire audiophile wire craze hit. Not that he was an audiophile, but he did run a Linn table, CJ amp and Quads. It is in fact not only science, but applied engineering and is a bit complicated. Fortunately, it has been long since worked out by real engineers at companies like Gore and Belden. Some custom wire assemblers, like Blue Jean, also have real engineers. A few others do so please don'r feel slighted if I did not mention your favorite. No magic cryogenics, no pyramids, no crystal directionalality, no Fibonacci sequence stranding, no speciousness.
That said, yes cables CAN make a difference! Heresy? No. Some can screw up the signal so bad it sounds different. The only ones I know of that bad were very expensive audiophile cables, ( C so high a cheap CD could not drive it) or were so cheap they did not have shielding. The former the salesman said " See, what a difference". I left. The latter were free. High force ends. Yea, I love that one. Ripped a jack right out of a CD with a Terra Labs cable once. Anyone want a deal on some of them?
I make my own out of Belden stranded copper "brilliance" double shielded 75 Ohm coax or Belden microphone cable. I make them short to fit. If they are not as good as anything, then the equipment was designed with some serious defect. I seriously doubt Thresholds were. Would Litz cable be better? Maybe on paper. Would exotic insulation be better? Belden already uses the correct material. Remember the medical credo: Do no harm. Your money is better spent on better speakers. When you have the very best, your money is better spent on better speakers.
For internal wire I use automotive primary wire. It has finer strands, just plain copper, comes in every size and color, and is far less expensive than "electronic hook up wire". A side effect is if it has to "let the smoke out", it chars instead of melting or flaming. Not the stuff from the local junk parts store, order from real auto wire suppliers.
My power cords are the ones that are so expensive, they are welded or soldered inside. You know, the $3 one instead of the $2 one. My plugs are the ones that don't fall out. I have been known to snap a choke on them just in case they pick up any RF. Worth a buck for piece of mind. To make them less of a tangled mess, I cut the plug off to shorten them and use the $4 plugs from the hardware store. Soldered. Medical grade is not needed as I don't plug an EKG into my stereo so nano-amps of leakage don't matter. The wire in the wall leaks more than that.
Wall plugs can make a difference. Not in sound, but in reliability. In the US, they come in several grades, "spec", "contractor", "industrial". Spec are the 79 cent plugs that will fatigue and start a fire. Contractor are a bit more robust for $1.79. For about $4, you get much stronger retention and beefier internal construction with "industrial". As I am not fond of my house burning down, all my plugs and switches have been replaced with industrial grade. You don't want a bad outlet with a toaster any more than your 20A class A uber-amp. I realize in many countries, that is not allowed as a DIY, and it may be looked dimly on if you are renting.
Just applied engineering of well understood science.
PS. See post 51 for wire 101.
I had a long discussion with a gentleman who actually designed wire for a living. Gore Inc. I think. This was when the entire audiophile wire craze hit. Not that he was an audiophile, but he did run a Linn table, CJ amp and Quads. It is in fact not only science, but applied engineering and is a bit complicated. Fortunately, it has been long since worked out by real engineers at companies like Gore and Belden. Some custom wire assemblers, like Blue Jean, also have real engineers. A few others do so please don'r feel slighted if I did not mention your favorite. No magic cryogenics, no pyramids, no crystal directionalality, no Fibonacci sequence stranding, no speciousness.
That said, yes cables CAN make a difference! Heresy? No. Some can screw up the signal so bad it sounds different. The only ones I know of that bad were very expensive audiophile cables, ( C so high a cheap CD could not drive it) or were so cheap they did not have shielding. The former the salesman said " See, what a difference". I left. The latter were free. High force ends. Yea, I love that one. Ripped a jack right out of a CD with a Terra Labs cable once. Anyone want a deal on some of them?
I make my own out of Belden stranded copper "brilliance" double shielded 75 Ohm coax or Belden microphone cable. I make them short to fit. If they are not as good as anything, then the equipment was designed with some serious defect. I seriously doubt Thresholds were. Would Litz cable be better? Maybe on paper. Would exotic insulation be better? Belden already uses the correct material. Remember the medical credo: Do no harm. Your money is better spent on better speakers. When you have the very best, your money is better spent on better speakers.
For internal wire I use automotive primary wire. It has finer strands, just plain copper, comes in every size and color, and is far less expensive than "electronic hook up wire". A side effect is if it has to "let the smoke out", it chars instead of melting or flaming. Not the stuff from the local junk parts store, order from real auto wire suppliers.
My power cords are the ones that are so expensive, they are welded or soldered inside. You know, the $3 one instead of the $2 one. My plugs are the ones that don't fall out. I have been known to snap a choke on them just in case they pick up any RF. Worth a buck for piece of mind. To make them less of a tangled mess, I cut the plug off to shorten them and use the $4 plugs from the hardware store. Soldered. Medical grade is not needed as I don't plug an EKG into my stereo so nano-amps of leakage don't matter. The wire in the wall leaks more than that.
Wall plugs can make a difference. Not in sound, but in reliability. In the US, they come in several grades, "spec", "contractor", "industrial". Spec are the 79 cent plugs that will fatigue and start a fire. Contractor are a bit more robust for $1.79. For about $4, you get much stronger retention and beefier internal construction with "industrial". As I am not fond of my house burning down, all my plugs and switches have been replaced with industrial grade. You don't want a bad outlet with a toaster any more than your 20A class A uber-amp. I realize in many countries, that is not allowed as a DIY, and it may be looked dimly on if you are renting.
Just applied engineering of well understood science.
PS. See post 51 for wire 101.
Oh Andrew, sometimes! There is nothing wrong with pure silver or for that matter Gold. In fact, gold is best, it will not tarnish over time. You need to look honestly at alternatives.
On a serious note, I suffered a flood last year. Had to throw out two reels of heavy speaker cable. The flood water penetrated the pvc and corroded the copper. Not happy!
Terry
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I am at the moment messing with bass guitar setup, amps and speaker
using old hifi power and preamp, and a small instrument pre/head unit
kind of liked it, and then suddenly not
while experimenting with speaker, I thought that was the reason
then I got trafo buzz, from power amp
and I had noticed a little humm in speaker, very little, barely audible
I thought, well, it is old stuff, and maybe not so good any more, but whatever
but maybe it wasnt good to connect only one channel(preamp to power), but I am only using one
I mounted yet another interconnect cable, so that pre and power amp had both channels connected(stereo), but still only signal in one channel
and now I got very loud humm in speaker
then I tried to drive power amp through other preamp channel
no humm
and I got the impression that it sounded a bit better, different
not much, but still enough to make playing easier
like sweeter harmonics, cleaner and more correct sound, and definately nicer
then I decided to check DC on all outputs
nothing, 0.2mV on preamp, and 5-10mv on poweramp
then I accidentally touched my instrument preamp, and I got noise
something was definately wrong
moving it around didnt change anything
so definately not the jack connectors
but cable from instrument amp was a bit 'sensitive'
jack in one end, but a bloddy RCA at other end, to hifi preamp. ofcourse
and that was not good
a bit loose
'rocking' it abit helped
no humm, no buzzing, and it sounded better, like described above
food for thoughts, ehh 😱
sorry for such a long post, and hope its 'readable' 🙂
Well in less than 24 hours things have gone from okay to oh sh** I'm fully screwed. Tonight I went back to the MUSE160 power amp and it had a buzz - plus heat on the right channel AND a slight hum came from the right speaker. I switched off, unplugged the speakers and measured DC offset: it was wild ... from 12mV to 140mV on the LEFT channel and 1.2mV to 50mV on the RIGHT channel. Left it for a few minutes to scratch my head and have a damn good Scotch and then came back, connected up speakers and measured again; it was now around 40 to 50mV left and 8mV right. Connected a source (CD) and ha ha ha ha ha ha - now I suddenly have really bad right speaker distortion 🙁 WTH???
Swapped to the Threshold SA/3 right away just to see if it was the Muse amp or if I had fried a speaker - no - speaker is fine- but the Muse's right channel is 'toast' in some way. I have no idea why but I'm really getting the idea that 'him' upstairs doesn't much like me much.
Anyone know of a good tech repair shop in Colorado because I'm not going near anything electrical for a while. Oh, I almost forgot to mention - the central heating thermostat died earlier today ... and after taking a few pics to post ... uh huh you guessed it ... the flash stopped working on my camera.
Anyone got a handy solid wall I can drive into 😡😡😡😡😡 Or poetically a spare length of good STRONG COPPER wire they're not using 🙁
Swapped to the Threshold SA/3 right away just to see if it was the Muse amp or if I had fried a speaker - no - speaker is fine- but the Muse's right channel is 'toast' in some way. I have no idea why but I'm really getting the idea that 'him' upstairs doesn't much like me much.
Anyone know of a good tech repair shop in Colorado because I'm not going near anything electrical for a while. Oh, I almost forgot to mention - the central heating thermostat died earlier today ... and after taking a few pics to post ... uh huh you guessed it ... the flash stopped working on my camera.
Anyone got a handy solid wall I can drive into 😡😡😡😡😡 Or poetically a spare length of good STRONG COPPER wire they're not using 🙁
What you write are most possibly the HF oscillation in the preamp I mentioned earlier in this thread.
When the amplifier now was running with NO load (unplugged speakers) the HF oscillation damaged some transistors in your right channel.
The soldering of one of the transistors look like it have been running very hot.
If it is HF oscillation that causes the problem the damaged transistor are often broken in such a way that it is left "open".
Check for the voltage over the emitter resistors and I would expect that both either PNP or NPN transistors are broken.
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Hi RayCtech: I had nothing connected to the amp at the time - no preamp - no anything. Could that (nothing connected to the amp) have caused it?
Anyone know the transistors - no I haven't 'googled' for them yet - still shaking. It was a really excellent amp - until an hour or so ago.
Anyone know the transistors - no I haven't 'googled' for them yet - still shaking. It was a really excellent amp - until an hour or so ago.
Weird...
Did you disconnect the speaker cables from the amplifier or the speakers.
If you did disconnect at the amplifier I have no idea.
If you disconnected at the speakers it can be your speaker cables that cause a HF oscillation in your amplifiers.
Disconnected from the amplifier - not the speakers. Absolutely nothing was connected to the amp - except of course for the DMM leads. Hmmmm. As you say it's just plain weird - or rather pretty bizarre. As you'll understand I'm pretty much pi**** off right now and depressed as hell.
The transistors: do the letters/numbers beneath 10N20 and 10P20 mean anything? I've Googled the numbers but only get results for 10N20 and 10P20 with no other letters / numbers. I've not seen these transistors before but from Googling I saw them in a review of a Belles amp.
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