"as long as you can prove that you have the knowledge and skill once your in that situation, that's what employers look for.... "
My point is that this is what the thesis does, its proof to potential employeers that you are competent.
Maybe things here in Canada are different but everyone i have talked to coming back from job interviews was that the thesis was the only thing they dicussed.
I worked 100+ hour weeks on my thesis, traveling into school on the weekends included to finish my thesis. Your a 4th year student you should be a survival expert, should be able to work on little to no sleep. You are at the point now where no one can tell you how hard to work, its up to you to determine how much this is worth to you. Thinking back to my undergrad thesis i am still proud of my work and knowledge that few other undergrad students could accomplish what i did.
BTW If you think an undergrad thesis is a struggle try writting a iEEE Conferance paper in 2 weeks
Ok back to my damn paper.
My point is that this is what the thesis does, its proof to potential employeers that you are competent.
Maybe things here in Canada are different but everyone i have talked to coming back from job interviews was that the thesis was the only thing they dicussed.
I worked 100+ hour weeks on my thesis, traveling into school on the weekends included to finish my thesis. Your a 4th year student you should be a survival expert, should be able to work on little to no sleep. You are at the point now where no one can tell you how hard to work, its up to you to determine how much this is worth to you. Thinking back to my undergrad thesis i am still proud of my work and knowledge that few other undergrad students could accomplish what i did.
BTW If you think an undergrad thesis is a struggle try writting a iEEE Conferance paper in 2 weeks
Ok back to my damn paper.alizawi said:
I agree 100% Alaizawi. Here in S.A we have an affirmative action program and I was forced to hire software developers from a particular racial grouping. After on paper weeding the candidates down to 3 we ran the practical skill segment of the hiring process. It was as plain as day to me that of the 3 candidates I interviewed. The 2 that had graduated from a 2 year college programming course and had difficulty finding the on switch on the PC and then confused about what the mouse was for were certainly not in the "bright" category. The only choice I that remained was a university Degree (3 year) qualified developer. It took some months but eventualy I was able to get him to understand the concept of a variable. What is happening in education?
Just out of interest is this an honours degree course (4 Year) and what school are you attending? It is always good to have an inside track on things.
I see what you are sayin HFGuy......the thesis may or may not be relevant depending on what the particular job being applied to is..... I would have liked to do a project involving cotrols, but I didnt have enough knowldege at the time.....I do have the knowledge a graduating engineer is expected to have, and doing thiis project I'm learning more and more....I don't have as much time as you did to work on my thesis though, I have circumstances that don't allow it, but once I graduate, I will have all the time to dedicate to my profession
For the gu that was asking, I'm attending Cal. State Univ., Chico, very good engineering program....we beat all competition in annual contests (including stanford)
For the gu that was asking, I'm attending Cal. State Univ., Chico, very good engineering program....we beat all competition in annual contests (including stanford)
No, I'm sorry, but excuses about insufficient time to work on your project won't wash. What you do now will affect the rest of your life. You need to put all the time you have (and more) into your project. You see, your future employer isn't just concerned about your technical ability and problem-solving skills, they're also concerned about your attitude when you're really up against a problem. Real engineers don't muck about, they solve problems. And if that means working long hours, that's what they do. And at the end, they expect to be paid for it (or they move on).
Any engineering program can be great. You get out of it what you put it into.
As a TA i see first hand the division of "good" vs "poor" students. "Good" students go out of their way to learn all that they can, they work as hard as they can push themselves mentally and pysically. The "poor" students do just enough to pass the course, and at the first sign of trouble or difficulty run to me for help, instead of taking the time to come up with their own solution. To me just the just passing attitude is a bad idea for 2 reasons, not only do you only know mayb 50% of the material but your attitude sucks as well.
Please dont see this as an insult in anyway, i wish the best for you.
As a TA i see first hand the division of "good" vs "poor" students. "Good" students go out of their way to learn all that they can, they work as hard as they can push themselves mentally and pysically. The "poor" students do just enough to pass the course, and at the first sign of trouble or difficulty run to me for help, instead of taking the time to come up with their own solution. To me just the just passing attitude is a bad idea for 2 reasons, not only do you only know mayb 50% of the material but your attitude sucks as well.
Please dont see this as an insult in anyway, i wish the best for you.
The world is a very big place with a lot of different people, and that includes bright and not so bright hiring managers. I've seen smart people get shafted and people who don't have any business in the workforce get promoted to boss. I've seen dumb students get hired on like it was normal (me,...lol) and smart students that couldn't find luck if they had a winning lottery ticket. The job market is dynamic and unjust, but yet it keeps ticking. I'd say there is room for most of us, and if not,..well then that's the way it goes too. I was not the best of students with the best of attitudes, yet I managed to find work when needed and did rather well. I even pulled off a career change by acting like I knew what I was doing.
Nope, it's all dynamic and it's up to us to make the most of it. I don't think there is anyone qualified to say how things should be since it doesn't really make any difference in the real world, all the wrong people will see that logic does not prevail anyway. Just wait for the next jackass that your company's board sees fit to hire as CEO and I rest my case. I mean,..look what radio shack did..... Totally absurd. And look how many stores are going to pay for it. So,..let's stop talking logic here,..I'm getting dizzy!
Nope, it's all dynamic and it's up to us to make the most of it. I don't think there is anyone qualified to say how things should be since it doesn't really make any difference in the real world, all the wrong people will see that logic does not prevail anyway. Just wait for the next jackass that your company's board sees fit to hire as CEO and I rest my case. I mean,..look what radio shack did.....
Totally absurd. And look how many stores are going to pay for it. So,..let's stop talking logic here,..I'm getting dizzy!Soooooooooooo True,
There is some justice tho, i know a recent grad who got hired to design RF amps to which he didnt even know what end was the input. They fired him the first week. Remember the job interview isnt over after you get the job. Just because the world isnt just and fair doesnt mean we cant strive to be the best we can be.
There is some justice tho, i know a recent grad who got hired to design RF amps to which he didnt even know what end was the input. They fired him the first week
. Remember the job interview isnt over after you get the job. Just because the world isnt just and fair doesnt mean we cant strive to be the best we can be.Alizawi, I won't bash you . I know what it's like going to school and playing sports at the same time, though I'm not yet in college. I play on two baseball teams, work 20-25 hours a week, and go to school full time. I still have a little time to fiddle around with electronics junk, though, lol. Live it up, man! You only get to play soccer for so long, but you can always learn electronics.
All my knowledge about electronics (granted, not very much, but more than anyone at my school of 2000 by far) has come from the internet. I've never taken a class in my life. I plan on majoring in EE in college, as well as playing baseball, so I will soon be in the same boat as you.
Good luck with your design!
. I know what it's like going to school and playing sports at the same time, though I'm not yet in college. I play on two baseball teams, work 20-25 hours a week, and go to school full time. I still have a little time to fiddle around with electronics junk, though, lol. Live it up, man! You only get to play soccer for so long, but you can always learn electronics. All my knowledge about electronics (granted, not very much, but more than anyone at my school of 2000 by far) has come from the internet. I've never taken a class in my life. I plan on majoring in EE in college, as well as playing baseball, so I will soon be in the same boat as you.
Good luck with your design!
alizawi said:
You make some unfortunate assumptions about me based on nothing, which just aint that smart to be honest. no need to appologize either.
i'm not a geek. wheing in at 125kg, lifting my bodywheight, and well above, in squat, benchpress and deadlift while having bronze in the national championship in hammerthrow, and being 2cm away from the same in shotput.
i have a life, a job, and still found the time to make something wortwhile at school last year. it's just not a good excuse, "i'm not a geek". you dont have to be.
so my suggestion stands. no shortcuts.
Becomming a engineer must be a lot easier in the states that here up north i reccon.
good luck anyways mate.
HFGuy said:
offcource
demogorgon said:
Receiving a degree may be... (I really don't know, and since I have my undergrad, don't care
)But being recognized for your ability, which is what I would consider "becoming an engineer" is not nearly as easy as getting that degree. The degree alone doesn't earn someone the title.
The comments about being able to show your determination and willingness to work hard and learn are dead on. A thesis is a great way to do that.
When I was a new graduate, I was able to show my resume and explain to the interviewers that I worked full time through most of college, most of that was as a coop or in a full engineering position, while I took classes full time, and I managed to get ahead and graduate a year early. I wouldn't be surprised to find that helped me get a job.
And, for what it's worth, I interviewed someone for a new college hire position two days ago. I asked him about his project, and formed a couple of opinions based on his answer. So it may not always come up, but it certainly can, and if it does, it will affect the decision made. Most interviewers will also ask for you to tell them about yourself. That is a perfect time to bring up the hard work that went into a thesis.
Retro.....what you said is 100% true
some of you people misunderstood.....I didn't say Im not putting all the effort, I'm putting in everything I have and more into my education, (not just thesis, but classes as well) I don't just aim to pass them, all the classes I passed I did really well in and I understood the material to the fullest (except for a few here and there, but you're not expected to pick up everything in school) To get a job depends on everything, from your thesis, to your classes, to how you deal with everyday problems...your personailty is just as important as all the other stuff as well.....
anyways, not to offend anyone, but being criticized buy some people on a forum can't really convince me of much, since not even prof's and people with YEARS of experience have given such criticism
by the way ,demigoron, relax homie, don't get all insecure, I wasn't sayin anything about you, I can't tell much just from one post...I was just talking strictly about myself
some of you people misunderstood.....I didn't say Im not putting all the effort, I'm putting in everything I have and more into my education, (not just thesis, but classes as well) I don't just aim to pass them, all the classes I passed I did really well in and I understood the material to the fullest (except for a few here and there, but you're not expected to pick up everything in school) To get a job depends on everything, from your thesis, to your classes, to how you deal with everyday problems...your personailty is just as important as all the other stuff as well.....
anyways, not to offend anyone, but being criticized buy some people on a forum can't really convince me of much, since not even prof's and people with YEARS of experience have given such criticism
by the way ,demigoron, relax homie, don't get all insecure, I wasn't sayin anything about you, I can't tell much just from one post...I was just talking strictly about myself
Profs will rarely be honest with students. They wont tell you to your face that what your doing sucks. I gave a prof my undergrad thesis as he had 2 groups doing half the work i had done. He simply laughed at the fact that he had not given them enough work, but told me it was too late. He never mentioned any of this to his students. Profs will try to encourage you so they will never tell you their true feelings.
Just as a side note, nearing the end of my 4th year i stopped attending classes to devote more time to my thesis. For my school most focus is on our thesis, the classes are alot less demanding the last semester. This may not be true of all other schools, so keep that in mind for my comment on your thesis.
I really am trying to be polite but you have to be honest with yourself. Is your engineering thesis really an engineering thesis ?? Do you want to be doing a 1 year thesis ona project that hobbiests can do over a weekend ?
Just as a side note, nearing the end of my 4th year i stopped attending classes to devote more time to my thesis. For my school most focus is on our thesis, the classes are alot less demanding the last semester. This may not be true of all other schools, so keep that in mind for my comment on your thesis.
I really am trying to be polite but you have to be honest with yourself. Is your engineering thesis really an engineering thesis ?? Do you want to be doing a 1 year thesis ona project that hobbiests can do over a weekend ?
I guess its different from school to school like you said, the fact that you keep calling it a thesis shows it, it's not called that here, and they stress the fact that senior project isn't what it's all about...my school is a top engineering school for a reason, and their emphaisis is on the level of education.. that's why graudates from my school are highly desireable, at least in the silicon valley area and surroundings .I prefer to focus on courses that are more closely related to what I might be doin when in industry....so they tell us here that it's no use of goin through all the intense courses and then not graduate due to senior project...and our classes during the last semester are pretty intense, can't afford to miss 2 minutes of a lecture ...
Wow I can't really help in terms of your project, but I think the discussion surrounding the difficulty of it and whether or not an EE student should be able to complete it or not, very interesting. It seems to me to be indicative of the various educational emphasises of the countries of those commenting.
When I was studying in the states everything was very simple in the sense that you knew what you were responsible for in preparing for the test. There was a text book and the lectures and that's what you had to know to pass the test. Here in Germany we're told this is the topic go learn it here are about fifty books none of which are particularly good but all of them have good sections go get educated.
Both lead to essentially the same result just via different routes. The student in America gets to focus on the info the professor thinks is important while the student in germany spends a great deal of time trying to figure out what is relevant for the test and where to learn it.
Two different ways to do the same thing I guess. Oh yeah german students aren't required to take liberal eds and school is decidedly cheaper which frees up a lot of time comparatively.
I don't know that either way is better they're just different.
But you can take all of this with a grain of salt as i didn't and don't study engineering and it could be very different.
When I was studying in the states everything was very simple in the sense that you knew what you were responsible for in preparing for the test. There was a text book and the lectures and that's what you had to know to pass the test. Here in Germany we're told this is the topic go learn it here are about fifty books none of which are particularly good but all of them have good sections go get educated.
Both lead to essentially the same result just via different routes. The student in America gets to focus on the info the professor thinks is important while the student in germany spends a great deal of time trying to figure out what is relevant for the test and where to learn it.
Two different ways to do the same thing I guess. Oh yeah german students aren't required to take liberal eds and school is decidedly cheaper which frees up a lot of time comparatively.
I don't know that either way is better they're just different.
But you can take all of this with a grain of salt as i didn't and don't study engineering and it could be very different.
flaevor said:
That must've been nice... I probably spent $25,000 on liberal arts courses, not too mention countless hours that could have been used to do something worthwhile.
And now, having "been there, done that", I can honestly say the only thing I got from any of those classes was 4 credits.
yeah for sure, most of those gen ed courses are worthless...except for advanced psychology, the rest were a waste of my time and money.......things are different in europe, even for engineering, they focus more on the subject at hand....in the US they do it to encourage some sort of diversity in the way people think, and they needed coz as a culture there's a lot of ignorance out there, and forcing people to get exposed to all types of general education courses helps a little bit to overcome this
alizawi said:
Not insecure, i was altso just talking strictly about myself. i was trying to point out to you that combining hard schoolwork with both a life and a job is doable.
not trying to pull you chain here either. since you focus more on classes and lectures, the picture i had of your situation changes.
but anyways, good luck man, on your cource, degree and thesis.
-marius
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.