I came across econowave project where 12-15" woofers are used with compression drivers. they are popular for their dynamics and resolution (of course huge efficiency!). I want to build these speakers for my home. But my room is just 10x20 sq ft and the speakers can be placed along the 10ft wall only. I am in doubt if these speakers are indeed compatible with small rooms given the use of big woofers and controlled dispersion characteristics.
Look at that source closer. It's a giant thread, but smaller projects and smaller wave guides were used. Conversion of bookshelf speakers were popular.
Russellc
Russellc
Controlled directivity is more important for small rooms than for larger ones, so Econowaves are suited well.
Big woofers are said to be incompatible with small rooms because of the deep bass they produce. Econowaves use PA woofers which do not produce much bass, especially when the cabinet is closed and not ported.
Big woofers are said to be incompatible with small rooms because of the deep bass they produce. Econowaves use PA woofers which do not produce much bass, especially when the cabinet is closed and not ported.
The big woofer is needed for getting the controlled directivity to a lower frequency. A smaller woofer will lose directivity much higher in frequency than a bigger woofer. A 12" woofer is considered a good size from this point of view. Earl Geddes has written good papers on this subject. www.gedlee.com/downloads/directivity.pdf.
A 12" is considered good size, a 10" a bit compromised. Ahuja has a couple of drivers in 12"size. I ve put together an active Econowave kind of build with an Ahujas 12". It produced much less bass when compared to hi-fi woofers of even smaller size.
A 12" is considered good size, a 10" a bit compromised. Ahuja has a couple of drivers in 12"size. I ve put together an active Econowave kind of build with an Ahujas 12". It produced much less bass when compared to hi-fi woofers of even smaller size.
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Bass is volume displaced. 12" PA speaker does this well.
People tend to run simulations with passive crossover then proclaim PA speakers don't make base. That is baseless!
Just EQ it.
People tend to run simulations with passive crossover then proclaim PA speakers don't make base. That is baseless!
Just EQ it.
Lots of successful ones were built with smaller woofers One of the most popular were made from 2way advent speakers. That one did sacrifice efficiency, which was one of the things that led me to Econwaves. Mine were typical of this, with 15 inch JBL drivers.
Several builders, including Zilch himself, experimented with smaller wave guides, mated with smaller woofers.
The Advent conversion would probably be fine for your smaller room. As long as you can live without the efficiency. It used the smaller original JBL waveguide, not the later and somewhat larger QSC wave guide.
Russellc
Several builders, including Zilch himself, experimented with smaller wave guides, mated with smaller woofers.
The Advent conversion would probably be fine for your smaller room. As long as you can live without the efficiency. It used the smaller original JBL waveguide, not the later and somewhat larger QSC wave guide.
Russellc
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I've built 6 differnt iderations of the eWaves and can tell you that they are perfectly suited for your size room. If you lived closer I'd give you cabinets and woofers to build on.
I would fear much of the treble side, as a compression driver with its horn likes to shot the wave ahead and this will rapidly find a surface to reflect on it.
A high(-ish---) dispersion tweeter would produce a more natural...ehm -dispersion.
The need for a big enough waveguide to control directivity (1/dispersion) to
a big woofer is totally innatural for listening in a room when the size is predominant.
The bigger 12" Econowaves are actually better for small room acoustically, but not aesthetically.
I'm working on an 8" econowave. But will have to wait until our AUD picks up 🙂
www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/89026-exodus-a-beast-of-100db/
I'm working on an 8" econowave. But will have to wait until our AUD picks up 🙂
www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/89026-exodus-a-beast-of-100db/
unfortunately there is one corner for right speaker and for left there is a door opening. also max separation between both speakers can be 6 ft (assuming each box width will go upto 1.5ft).
The bigger 12" Econowaves are actually better for small room acoustically, but not aesthetically.
I'm working on an 8" econowave. But will have to wait until our AUD picks up 🙂
www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/89026-exodus-a-beast-of-100db/
hi gainphile,
i have gone thro your blog. thanks for sharing details of your builds there. its wealth of information for diy community.
directivity is needed. i think that is what makes the whole idea of econowave design attractive!
Exactly. That was the entire point of Econowave. Mine use 2235H 15 inch JBL drivers, in 5 cu ft tuned to about 32 Hz. Work great in my living room, which isn't small, but not that large either.
Russellc
Right, not much point using horns/WGs otherwise unless all you have is 'flea' power available and even then the speakers need to be large to get sufficient efficiency.
GM
GM
Mine were terrific with a 60-70 watt P-P tube amp. Like them even better with the DIY Pass Class A Amps. I never was much of a flea power amp guy. Zilch used fairly large JBL pro amps mainly. Mine were more like modernized 4430 Monitors, my bass cabs were same size, same bass driver, just slightly lower tuning....I never used flea amps on my Altecs either.
I'm sure somebody did but most all the Econowave builders used non flea amps...if you do you definitely want a high efficiency (Large) version. Or drive your flea amp into a F-4.
Russellc
I'm sure somebody did but most all the Econowave builders used non flea amps...if you do you definitely want a high efficiency (Large) version. Or drive your flea amp into a F-4.
Russellc
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Unfortunately I do not remember what the thread was.
Cool isn't?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6183d676872cc40e904a8c2a780b7385&topic=53.0
Found it!
Cool isn't?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6183d676872cc40e904a8c2a780b7385&topic=53.0
Found it!
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The giant original is on AudioKarma.org, and has been made into a STICKY in the speaker forum. Then Zilch also did a thread over on the Partsexpress forum, called something like "Get your PCD meddle On" referring to the PCD program for speaker design.
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Their is also a thread here on DIYaudio by Earl Geddes where he tested the Econowave setup for Zilch. It wasn't originally about Econowave, but it came up in the discussion and the testing came out of that.
Russellc
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