Dynaudio 1.3 SE
Ok, it wasn't so bad the second try. I went in through the speaker holes and was able to push the waveguide tube out through the back of the tweeter portion of the cabinet. This allowed easy access to the screws holding the crossover board.
The capacitors Dynaudio uses are the lowest grade Solen. Solen is a inexpensive Poly film capacitor, IMO it's ok but not the best. I have a lot of experience changing crossover capacitors with many types and have found it to make an audible difference each time. I am waiting for some Sonicaps and will post the results after a few weeks.
Ok, it wasn't so bad the second try. I went in through the speaker holes and was able to push the waveguide tube out through the back of the tweeter portion of the cabinet. This allowed easy access to the screws holding the crossover board.
The capacitors Dynaudio uses are the lowest grade Solen. Solen is a inexpensive Poly film capacitor, IMO it's ok but not the best. I have a lot of experience changing crossover capacitors with many types and have found it to make an audible difference each time. I am waiting for some Sonicaps and will post the results after a few weeks.
Dynaudio 1.3 SE
ShaneF - I hear a little sybilance and I'm looking for more detail/clarity. I think the overall tweeter energy is appropriate. In the past I have attributed this to Solens. We'll see...
ShaneF - I hear a little sybilance and I'm looking for more detail/clarity. I think the overall tweeter energy is appropriate. In the past I have attributed this to Solens. We'll see...
BDS4, if this crossover image is to be believed, you have one seriously thought out 4th order filter there. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with component quality.
For a 6.5" polycone and 1" Esotar tweeter, this really ought to be about as good as it gets. I don't know what relation your speaker is to the the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk II, which apparently uses a lower order filter: https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/333/index.html
I'd suspect that what you are disliking is the soft dome sound, and TBH I don't much like them myself. It might be possible to change it to something else like a metal dome or ring-radiator, but not a trivial task.
It's possible the crossover is on the low side and doesn't like high volume with complex music. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/190663-can-you-have-sparkling-treble-but-without-sibilance-2.html#post2604196. But again, a huge task to fix that.
For a 6.5" polycone and 1" Esotar tweeter, this really ought to be about as good as it gets. I don't know what relation your speaker is to the the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk II, which apparently uses a lower order filter: https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/333/index.html
I'd suspect that what you are disliking is the soft dome sound, and TBH I don't much like them myself. It might be possible to change it to something else like a metal dome or ring-radiator, but not a trivial task.
It's possible the crossover is on the low side and doesn't like high volume with complex music. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/190663-can-you-have-sparkling-treble-but-without-sibilance-2.html#post2604196. But again, a huge task to fix that.
Attachments
Last edited:
Dynaudio 1.3 SE
System7, yes that is the crossover. You could be right about the soft dome tweeter. I'm just interested in what improvements, if any, can be realized by upgrading the tweeter cap. for what I consider to be a better one. I'm not interested in changing the crossover design as I agree that it's probably as good as it gets.
System7, yes that is the crossover. You could be right about the soft dome tweeter. I'm just interested in what improvements, if any, can be realized by upgrading the tweeter cap. for what I consider to be a better one. I'm not interested in changing the crossover design as I agree that it's probably as good as it gets.
I don't think you'll change a thing by swapping tweeter caps. I can scarcely hear the difference between NP electrolytics and ANY polypropylene cap.
One of my lecturers at college (A world authority on filters...) said that the only point at which component specification, tolerance or quality really affects things is at the -6dB crossover point. Which is where the phase angle or power factor is maximum, hence the component is most strained. Above that, the capacitor is just all pass. It acts like it isn't there! 😎
Thinking about it, a 4th order filter so dominates the response, that swapping out the tweeter for one of different type but similar flatness and level and size might be quite easy.
One of my lecturers at college (A world authority on filters...) said that the only point at which component specification, tolerance or quality really affects things is at the -6dB crossover point. Which is where the phase angle or power factor is maximum, hence the component is most strained. Above that, the capacitor is just all pass. It acts like it isn't there! 😎
Thinking about it, a 4th order filter so dominates the response, that swapping out the tweeter for one of different type but similar flatness and level and size might be quite easy.
Last edited:
1.3se
system7 - I agree that there are small differences between caps, it just seems to me that those small differences make a huge impact in enjoying the sound. Hearing low level instruments or voices in a track that you never heard before increases the excitement in an exponential way. That I can't scientifically prove the differences doesn't bother me - I just acknowledge it.
That said, I appreciate your input and would like to know what types of tweeters you would recommend?
system7 - I agree that there are small differences between caps, it just seems to me that those small differences make a huge impact in enjoying the sound. Hearing low level instruments or voices in a track that you never heard before increases the excitement in an exponential way. That I can't scientifically prove the differences doesn't bother me - I just acknowledge it.
That said, I appreciate your input and would like to know what types of tweeters you would recommend?
It's a research project replacing tweeters. What will fit? Is the level about the same? You can even make life easier by selecting something with the same connection tags if they aren't hard soldered.
I've got most of the dynaudio stuff on hard drive. Identify the exact tweeter. Most of them are flattish and between 88and 91dB sensitivity. DC resistance is good to match too. That tends to be between 3 and 6 ohms.
Size is usually 94mm, 100mm or 104mm, even 110mm. I have a feeling dynaudio Esotar is on the big side. I'd then be looking at SEAS metal tweeters, or possibly SB acoustics or Vifa ring radiators, though they have a low impedance.
I've got most of the dynaudio stuff on hard drive. Identify the exact tweeter. Most of them are flattish and between 88and 91dB sensitivity. DC resistance is good to match too. That tends to be between 3 and 6 ohms.
Size is usually 94mm, 100mm or 104mm, even 110mm. I have a feeling dynaudio Esotar is on the big side. I'd then be looking at SEAS metal tweeters, or possibly SB acoustics or Vifa ring radiators, though they have a low impedance.
Last edited:
BTW, being a scientific sort of person, I do always have a close look at a crossover. Dynaudio used to do tweeter filters like this. Quite low order, in fact.
It's not easy for someone new to this to know how to trace a filter, but essential IMO if you are doing mods.
It's not inconceivable that you have a tweeter section along the same lines.
It's not easy for someone new to this to know how to trace a filter, but essential IMO if you are doing mods.
It's not inconceivable that you have a tweeter section along the same lines.
Attachments
Dynaudio 1.3 SE
Ok I received the 6.8mfd sonicaps and installed them with an .01mfd 1837 bypass. They are not broken in yet but the harshness and vagueness in the treble is gone and it sounds much improved. Clarity is significantly improved. Overall a large improvement!!!
Ok I received the 6.8mfd sonicaps and installed them with an .01mfd 1837 bypass. They are not broken in yet but the harshness and vagueness in the treble is gone and it sounds much improved. Clarity is significantly improved. Overall a large improvement!!!
Interesting reading this thread re HF series pass xover caps. I build a pair of Joe Rassmusen's Elsinore's in 2011. I initially used a Solen SCR cap as the series element in the HF path. I was very happy with how they sounded and used them that way for about 8 months. Having a technical background I was a great skeptic of the "Golden Eared Capacitor snobs" or at least that's what I called them but after reading a fair bit from people who's opinions I respected decided somewhat reluctantly to change the Solen's for Jantzen Superior Z caps. They weren't horribly expensive so I thought I'll givem a go. Well I was gobsmacked at the difference. I found the detail and subtlety was so much enhanced. I was able to listen to my music collection anew. There definitely is something going on. Not sure what it is and maybe someone will someday be able to quantify it but there is an improvement to be had.
My 2 cents.
My 2 cents.
Dynaudio 1.3se
Yep irext. I have a tech background also and I don't like not being able to explain things but this adds so much to the enjoyment of listening to music. I also have experienced another looney thing, capacitor break in. If you have less than 100 hours on those capacitors, it will get better.
Yep irext. I have a tech background also and I don't like not being able to explain things but this adds so much to the enjoyment of listening to music. I also have experienced another looney thing, capacitor break in. If you have less than 100 hours on those capacitors, it will get better.
I corrected that for you.
Now try audio testing with your ears as the ONLY input to your brain.
Dynaudio 1.3se
Well, after replacing the tweeter caps I found that one of the tweeters had reduced output. I disassembled the tweeter and found the metal mounting plate had broken free from the magnet assembly. This pinched the voice coil and destroyed the tweeter. So that was my root cause for the dull sound. Kind of a bad design by Dynaudio as there was only glue holding the plate to the magnet. After nearly 20 years, it gave way. Now I have to find a replacement. Damn!
Well, after replacing the tweeter caps I found that one of the tweeters had reduced output. I disassembled the tweeter and found the metal mounting plate had broken free from the magnet assembly. This pinched the voice coil and destroyed the tweeter. So that was my root cause for the dull sound. Kind of a bad design by Dynaudio as there was only glue holding the plate to the magnet. After nearly 20 years, it gave way. Now I have to find a replacement. Damn!
Last edited:
Well, I ducked out with all the nonsense about it being the capacitors causing the problem! Snake-Oil, my friend. LOL.
Replacing a tweeter isn't hard. Probably you want to replace as a pair. Will the new ones fit? A question of measurement. Do they match level roughly? We'd need to know which exact dynaudio tweeter is fitted and do some research.
You still haven't investigated the tweeter filter topology, which I would always check to avoid the unexpected.
There really isn't anything hard about fitting new tweeters. Metal, softdome, whatever. But you can save yourself work by doing a thorough investigation first.
Replacing a tweeter isn't hard. Probably you want to replace as a pair. Will the new ones fit? A question of measurement. Do they match level roughly? We'd need to know which exact dynaudio tweeter is fitted and do some research.
You still haven't investigated the tweeter filter topology, which I would always check to avoid the unexpected.
There really isn't anything hard about fitting new tweeters. Metal, softdome, whatever. But you can save yourself work by doing a thorough investigation first.
Dynaudio 1.3se
system7 - Yeah, I probably wouldn't of tried the caps if I knew one of the tweeters was bad. They are fantastic speakers. I have sent a message to Dynaudio for recommendations. I think they are Titan 28/2 esotec not esotar. I am going to try to get direct replacements if Dynaudio has them and will do it.
Some on the web think these were matched and need to be replaced in pairs ($$$). They certainly don't look like the standard 28/2 pics on the web (huge double magnet).
I know how you feel about boutique capacitors and I'm still strongly on the other side of that discussion. It made so much of a difference on the good side that it masked the bad side for a short time. Try it sometime - replace a electrolytic in the signal path - walk on the wild side. I recommend Mundorf SIO as they add cavernous depth. I won't tell anybody. I promise 😉.
system7 - Yeah, I probably wouldn't of tried the caps if I knew one of the tweeters was bad. They are fantastic speakers. I have sent a message to Dynaudio for recommendations. I think they are Titan 28/2 esotec not esotar. I am going to try to get direct replacements if Dynaudio has them and will do it.
Some on the web think these were matched and need to be replaced in pairs ($$$). They certainly don't look like the standard 28/2 pics on the web (huge double magnet).
I know how you feel about boutique capacitors and I'm still strongly on the other side of that discussion. It made so much of a difference on the good side that it masked the bad side for a short time. Try it sometime - replace a electrolytic in the signal path - walk on the wild side. I recommend Mundorf SIO as they add cavernous depth. I won't tell anybody. I promise 😉.
I have replaced electrolytics with MKP in the past. MKP sounds louder, that's about it. A question of ESR, IIRC. LOL.
Don't let me stop you in believing that Dynaudio's tweeters are tweetier than, say, SEAS' efforts. This one seems to fit at 110mm faceplate:
Seas T25CF001 - E0006 Diameter 110mm
Morel make some 110mm units too: Morel Elite ET338 1" Textile Dome Tweeter (110mm)
Sounds to me, that unless you can get new Dynaudio voicecoils, and maybe new ferrofluid, at a reasonable price, you are going to be shelling out big bucks.
Don't let me stop you in believing that Dynaudio's tweeters are tweetier than, say, SEAS' efforts. This one seems to fit at 110mm faceplate:
Seas T25CF001 - E0006 Diameter 110mm
Morel make some 110mm units too: Morel Elite ET338 1" Textile Dome Tweeter (110mm)
Sounds to me, that unless you can get new Dynaudio voicecoils, and maybe new ferrofluid, at a reasonable price, you are going to be shelling out big bucks.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.