Hello,
I bought 2 turntables for my girlfriend on a flea market. Both of them don't work. I'll start with the DUAL 1214.
Everything seems to work, except for the motor (I think). When I push START, it doesn't do anything. But when I start spinning the platter with my hands, the arm goes automatic in its place and starts playing, I get sound, music, everything works. Only problem is that I have to keep spinning it with my hand.
First I thought I had to replace the belt, until I opened the thing and didn't find a belt. It seems not to be belt driven.
Does anyone have any idea how I should repair this thing, and make my girlfriend happy?
Cheers!
I bought 2 turntables for my girlfriend on a flea market. Both of them don't work. I'll start with the DUAL 1214.
Everything seems to work, except for the motor (I think). When I push START, it doesn't do anything. But when I start spinning the platter with my hands, the arm goes automatic in its place and starts playing, I get sound, music, everything works. Only problem is that I have to keep spinning it with my hand.
First I thought I had to replace the belt, until I opened the thing and didn't find a belt. It seems not to be belt driven.
Does anyone have any idea how I should repair this thing, and make my girlfriend happy?
Cheers!
First check that there's current reaching the motor. If not, there's probably a problem with the switch. If there is current, unless you can find a broken wire on close inspection, you'll probably need a new motor.
First, I would follow dnsey's suggestion to try to find out if the motor is getting electricity. This might be a bit difficult as all of the connections on the switch are usually pretty well insulated and most of these kinds of motors have the leads attached right to the windings.
I am not familiar with the 1214 but am somewhat familiar with the 1229 (and the earlier 1219 and 1209). These were all idler wheel (rim) drive 'tables and the idler wheels were made out of some type of rubber. As old as these 'tables are, there is a very good chance that the idler wheel may be dried out and/or cracked. If the idler wheel is dry and brittle, the motor spindle just slips on the idler or the idler slips on the rim of the platter. The motor may be running fine but can't get the motion to the platter.
You can take off the platter to confirm this. The following applies to the 1229 (sort of, mine's been in a box for so long I've forgotten the exact details) but the 1214 should be similar. First, take off the rubber and metal mat. It just lays on the platter and is captured under a small lip at the center. It should pull right out from under the lip. Next, try to lift up on the outside edges of the platter. I don't remember if this is a two piece platter but if it is, the outer, heavier, piece should lift off. If it doesn't, no problem. Next, the inner platter (or the entire platter) is probably secured with a snap ring on the center tube where the spindles go (this is on the 1229). The easiest way to remove this ring is with snap ring pliers. Lacking those, it is POSSIBLE to remove it with two small screwdrivers, lots of words you can't use on this forum, and some strong spirits for afterward. Once you have the snap ring off, the platter just lifts off.
Now, plug the unit in and switch it on. You should be able to see the motor spindle turning. If you're not sure, lightly place yuor finger on the motor spindle to feel it moving. If it is, this means the motor is good and your problems are likely with the idler wheel. I'm not sure if all of Dual's 1200 series did it but some of them moved the idler wheel away from the motor and platter when the unit was shut off to prevent flat spots on the idler wheel. Make sure the wheel would be in contact with both the motor and platter with the switch on. If all of the above checks out, it's probably the wheel. Feel it, especially the edge, and see if it fleels slick and hard. If it does, it is bad. I know of no way to revive these things (wish I did!) so you will have to try and find a replacement. Maybe some of the other folks on this forum who know a lot more than I do can help.
Let us know what you find. In their day, these Dual "Automatic Turntables" were quite decent units. My 1229 tracked at 1.5 grams with a Shure V15 III with no problems and no record damage.
Good luck.
Ken
I am not familiar with the 1214 but am somewhat familiar with the 1229 (and the earlier 1219 and 1209). These were all idler wheel (rim) drive 'tables and the idler wheels were made out of some type of rubber. As old as these 'tables are, there is a very good chance that the idler wheel may be dried out and/or cracked. If the idler wheel is dry and brittle, the motor spindle just slips on the idler or the idler slips on the rim of the platter. The motor may be running fine but can't get the motion to the platter.
You can take off the platter to confirm this. The following applies to the 1229 (sort of, mine's been in a box for so long I've forgotten the exact details) but the 1214 should be similar. First, take off the rubber and metal mat. It just lays on the platter and is captured under a small lip at the center. It should pull right out from under the lip. Next, try to lift up on the outside edges of the platter. I don't remember if this is a two piece platter but if it is, the outer, heavier, piece should lift off. If it doesn't, no problem. Next, the inner platter (or the entire platter) is probably secured with a snap ring on the center tube where the spindles go (this is on the 1229). The easiest way to remove this ring is with snap ring pliers. Lacking those, it is POSSIBLE to remove it with two small screwdrivers, lots of words you can't use on this forum, and some strong spirits for afterward. Once you have the snap ring off, the platter just lifts off.
Now, plug the unit in and switch it on. You should be able to see the motor spindle turning. If you're not sure, lightly place yuor finger on the motor spindle to feel it moving. If it is, this means the motor is good and your problems are likely with the idler wheel. I'm not sure if all of Dual's 1200 series did it but some of them moved the idler wheel away from the motor and platter when the unit was shut off to prevent flat spots on the idler wheel. Make sure the wheel would be in contact with both the motor and platter with the switch on. If all of the above checks out, it's probably the wheel. Feel it, especially the edge, and see if it fleels slick and hard. If it does, it is bad. I know of no way to revive these things (wish I did!) so you will have to try and find a replacement. Maybe some of the other folks on this forum who know a lot more than I do can help.
Let us know what you find. In their day, these Dual "Automatic Turntables" were quite decent units. My 1229 tracked at 1.5 grams with a Shure V15 III with no problems and no record damage.
Good luck.
Ken
I agree with wa4htz. I (probably wrongly) assumed that you had established that the motor wasn't running.
If you can feel a distinct hum from the motor but it isn't turning, it may need lubricating.
Nearly all these motors were fitted with 'permanently lubricated' bearings, but it's not that permanent!
The best way is to dismantle the motor and soak the bearings overnight in light machine oil - they're porous and will soak up enough for another 20 years or so's use. If you don't feel confident with that, put just a few drops of oil on each bearing and work the spindle by hand until it moves freely.
If the idler's gone hard, try cleaning it with denatyured alcohol, then rub its rim with a pencil eraser - not a proper repair, but it might keep it going for a while.
As a last resort, if you can obtain some MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), you can attempt to revive the rubber with it.
CAUTION: MEK is very volatile, flammable and toxic in quantity, respiratory irritant in small amounts.
Once you get it running, you'll probably need to clean and re-lubricate (sparingly) all the bearing surfaces of the automatic mechanism - the lubricants commonly dry up, leading to so much drag that the motor can't cope.
If you can feel a distinct hum from the motor but it isn't turning, it may need lubricating.
Nearly all these motors were fitted with 'permanently lubricated' bearings, but it's not that permanent!
The best way is to dismantle the motor and soak the bearings overnight in light machine oil - they're porous and will soak up enough for another 20 years or so's use. If you don't feel confident with that, put just a few drops of oil on each bearing and work the spindle by hand until it moves freely.
If the idler's gone hard, try cleaning it with denatyured alcohol, then rub its rim with a pencil eraser - not a proper repair, but it might keep it going for a while.
As a last resort, if you can obtain some MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), you can attempt to revive the rubber with it.
CAUTION: MEK is very volatile, flammable and toxic in quantity, respiratory irritant in small amounts.Once you get it running, you'll probably need to clean and re-lubricate (sparingly) all the bearing surfaces of the automatic mechanism - the lubricants commonly dry up, leading to so much drag that the motor can't cope.
Dual1214 motor
Locate the motor shaft (small brass stepped shaft next to rubber idler wheel) and turn it by hand, if it's free, fine, if not, try a drop or two of light oil at the base of the shaft on top the motor. good luck.
Locate the motor shaft (small brass stepped shaft next to rubber idler wheel) and turn it by hand, if it's free, fine, if not, try a drop or two of light oil at the base of the shaft on top the motor. good luck.
Seems to be the motor
Hey guys,
First of all, thanks for your help. I'm not a real handyman, but I'm becoming one! Great.
I removed the platter, turned it on, and the motor spindle didn't move. It wasn't that easy to be sure that the thing is turned on, because of the auto-play thing (you move the arm - it starts spinning).
I put my ear close to it, and I do hear a hum. I think so. It's REALLY silent. But, as it wasn't that easy to move the brass spindle as MattTech posted, I'll try to put some oil on it.
(But I have to bring it from my appartment, as my girlfriend doesn't have oil - or would olive oil also do the job?😉
I'll let you know more after I put the oil.
Hey guys,
First of all, thanks for your help. I'm not a real handyman, but I'm becoming one! Great.
I removed the platter, turned it on, and the motor spindle didn't move. It wasn't that easy to be sure that the thing is turned on, because of the auto-play thing (you move the arm - it starts spinning).
I put my ear close to it, and I do hear a hum. I think so. It's REALLY silent. But, as it wasn't that easy to move the brass spindle as MattTech posted, I'll try to put some oil on it.
(But I have to bring it from my appartment, as my girlfriend doesn't have oil - or would olive oil also do the job?😉
I'll let you know more after I put the oil.
Hi Rudy,
No! Do not use olive oil.
You need a light machine oil, single weight, no detergents. That rules out 3-in-1 and seewing machine oil. WD-40 is not an oil.
Some of these motors come apart. You can detach the pulley (set screw) and take the motor apart. Clean the shaft areas in the bearing with lacquer thinner. Use a Q-tip (cotton swab) to remove the oil from the bearings themselves. Put a film of lubricant on the shaft. Let the bearings soak up some oil, wipe out the excess. Reassemble the motor, remove any excess oil (there shouldn't be any).
Try it before reinstalling the motor. It should run fine now.
-Chris
No! Do not use olive oil.
You need a light machine oil, single weight, no detergents. That rules out 3-in-1 and seewing machine oil. WD-40 is not an oil.
Some of these motors come apart. You can detach the pulley (set screw) and take the motor apart. Clean the shaft areas in the bearing with lacquer thinner. Use a Q-tip (cotton swab) to remove the oil from the bearings themselves. Put a film of lubricant on the shaft. Let the bearings soak up some oil, wipe out the excess. Reassemble the motor, remove any excess oil (there shouldn't be any).
Try it before reinstalling the motor. It should run fine now.
-Chris
Motor
Hi:
Dual motors are not meant to be taken apart. That said , when you take the motor apart for cleaning and then put it back together, make sure the shaft spins freely while tighjtening the screws holding the motor together.
Then hook the motor to the AC , with a 25 ohm resistor in series , and hook a battery powered AC voltmeter across the resistor. Be very careful and insulate all of the connections before plugging it in. Now make sure the motor turns and you have a voltage to read on the meter , I think in the 1 to 5 volt range , just guessing, but set the meter for 20 or more volts initially to avoid damage , you want the meter to read voltage in the upper third of the scale. Now with the motor turning , move the motor halves around and you will see the voltage rise and fall. Tune for minimum voltage across the resistor , that is minimum drag and current drain to the motor by moving the halves around while tightening together.. this is the best way to tighten the motor halves together for minimum drag and efficiency. The voltage should be around 2.8 v for operation.
Hope this helps
Ed
Hi:
Dual motors are not meant to be taken apart. That said , when you take the motor apart for cleaning and then put it back together, make sure the shaft spins freely while tighjtening the screws holding the motor together.
Then hook the motor to the AC , with a 25 ohm resistor in series , and hook a battery powered AC voltmeter across the resistor. Be very careful and insulate all of the connections before plugging it in. Now make sure the motor turns and you have a voltage to read on the meter , I think in the 1 to 5 volt range , just guessing, but set the meter for 20 or more volts initially to avoid damage , you want the meter to read voltage in the upper third of the scale. Now with the motor turning , move the motor halves around and you will see the voltage rise and fall. Tune for minimum voltage across the resistor , that is minimum drag and current drain to the motor by moving the halves around while tightening together.. this is the best way to tighten the motor halves together for minimum drag and efficiency. The voltage should be around 2.8 v for operation.
Hope this helps
Ed
re: reply to Rudy
Like I stated.. just put a few drops of light oil (3-in-one is fine) on the shaft where it enters the motor on top, and work the shaft back and forth.. then power it up, letting the oil work into the bearing, add another drop or two, and let it run... you should be fine after that.
I'm a seasoned technician, I know a few things... 🙂
Like I stated.. just put a few drops of light oil (3-in-one is fine) on the shaft where it enters the motor on top, and work the shaft back and forth.. then power it up, letting the oil work into the bearing, add another drop or two, and let it run... you should be fine after that.
I'm a seasoned technician, I know a few things... 🙂
Chris,
You say "single weight, non-detergent, which rules out "3-in-1" and sewing machine oil". I assume (I know, I know!) they are not multiviscosity so do they have a lot of detergents in them?
eds65gto,
That is a neat trick. Does it work for most small induction motors?
Rudy,
With the motor powered up, very lightly place your finger on the motor spindle. You should feel a little vibration if it is trying to turn. Oh, about being sure if it is turned on, as you move the arm toward the center of the platter from the rest, you should hear a click just as you start to move the arm. After you hear the click, the motor is powered up.
Ken
You say "single weight, non-detergent, which rules out "3-in-1" and sewing machine oil". I assume (I know, I know!) they are not multiviscosity so do they have a lot of detergents in them?
eds65gto,
That is a neat trick. Does it work for most small induction motors?
Rudy,
With the motor powered up, very lightly place your finger on the motor spindle. You should feel a little vibration if it is trying to turn. Oh, about being sure if it is turned on, as you move the arm toward the center of the platter from the rest, you should hear a click just as you start to move the arm. After you hear the click, the motor is powered up.
Ken
Hi Ed,
Yeah, they are a pain to align. That's why I told him not to install it yet. You spoiled all the fun, but I should have mentioned that. Thanks.
Matt,
The detergent and additives will gum things up in time. You are doing a quick fix, Rudy owns the turntable. It's got to last. So you must remove the gunk before you start lubricating. By removing and cleaning you can also see if the shaft is scored and advise the customer if it is. (motor needs replacement at that point)
Ken,
That trick works on most induction motors. Some really come apart when they are cooked. Others are rivited.
-Chris
Yeah, they are a pain to align. That's why I told him not to install it yet. You spoiled all the fun, but I should have mentioned that. Thanks.
Matt,
The detergent and additives will gum things up in time. You are doing a quick fix, Rudy owns the turntable. It's got to last. So you must remove the gunk before you start lubricating. By removing and cleaning you can also see if the shaft is scored and advise the customer if it is. (motor needs replacement at that point)
Ken,
That trick works on most induction motors. Some really come apart when they are cooked. Others are rivited.
-Chris
Motor
Hey:
I'd love to take credit for that but I can't , the method came from Audio Amateur magazine Mar 82 in the letters section. The writer was working on a 1219.
Setting the record straight
Ed
Hey:
I'd love to take credit for that but I can't , the method came from Audio Amateur magazine Mar 82 in the letters section. The writer was working on a 1219.
Setting the record straight
Ed
Hey guys,
I tried to oil the motor shaft/spindle/thing coming out of the motor without taking out the motor. Nothing happened.
But I don't know if the oil is able to slip inside the motor.
Would it be a good idea to take out the motor to oil it better -- knowing that I'm a total electronics dummy?
I tried to oil the motor shaft/spindle/thing coming out of the motor without taking out the motor. Nothing happened.
But I don't know if the oil is able to slip inside the motor.
Would it be a good idea to take out the motor to oil it better -- knowing that I'm a total electronics dummy?
Hi Rudy,
Don't try and take the easy way out. Strip, clean and relube.
Can you turn the shaft with your fingers?
-Chris
Don't try and take the easy way out. Strip, clean and relube.
Can you turn the shaft with your fingers?
-Chris
the motor works!
Okay, I lubed the shaft and now it works as it should be. Only problem now... the shaft doesn't touch the idler wheel. The motor doesn't seem to be tightened very well. When I push the shaft against the idler wheel, it spins only when I hold the whole TT in kind of vertical position. When I keep it horizontally and push the motor in the good position, it doesn't seem to turn. The rubber of the idler wheel seems in good condition though.
Okay, I lubed the shaft and now it works as it should be. Only problem now... the shaft doesn't touch the idler wheel. The motor doesn't seem to be tightened very well. When I push the shaft against the idler wheel, it spins only when I hold the whole TT in kind of vertical position. When I keep it horizontally and push the motor in the good position, it doesn't seem to turn. The rubber of the idler wheel seems in good condition though.
Congratulations on your progress!
Have you refitted the turntable platter? Doing so changes the geometry of the idler / spindle arrangement, so you may well find that it now works OK.
BTW, make sure that no oil has strayed onto the stepped pulley, or it will negate all your work and gradually destroy the idler.
Have you refitted the turntable platter? Doing so changes the geometry of the idler / spindle arrangement, so you may well find that it now works OK.
BTW, make sure that no oil has strayed onto the stepped pulley, or it will negate all your work and gradually destroy the idler.
Dual 1214 not working here either
I had to post here, because this forum doesn't seem to let me post a topic if something similar is already posted.
So, I bought a Dual 1214 turntable from a flea market. It didn't cost very much because it doesn't start up at all. It seems the electricity goes from the wire to the big bulky thing (motor?) because it heated up a little. I couldn't hear any sound from it.
I could use a manual for this, because English isn't my native language and I don't understand those "spindles" and "idler wheels" without a picture. 🙂 I'm trying to fix this myself, if it's possible. Otherwise the machine looks good, except I'm missing the rod in the middle (is that the spindle?), does that matter or can I stick any rod to replace it? I guess it just keeps the record on its place.
So, where could I start this repair from? What things to check first? And please, I need quite specific instructions and explanations for different parts, because I can't find those words in my dictionary. 🙂
Thanks in advance, I'd be delighted to get this machine working.
I had to post here, because this forum doesn't seem to let me post a topic if something similar is already posted.
So, I bought a Dual 1214 turntable from a flea market. It didn't cost very much because it doesn't start up at all. It seems the electricity goes from the wire to the big bulky thing (motor?) because it heated up a little. I couldn't hear any sound from it.
I could use a manual for this, because English isn't my native language and I don't understand those "spindles" and "idler wheels" without a picture. 🙂 I'm trying to fix this myself, if it's possible. Otherwise the machine looks good, except I'm missing the rod in the middle (is that the spindle?), does that matter or can I stick any rod to replace it? I guess it just keeps the record on its place.
So, where could I start this repair from? What things to check first? And please, I need quite specific instructions and explanations for different parts, because I can't find those words in my dictionary. 🙂
Thanks in advance, I'd be delighted to get this machine working.
Hi Rudy,
You probably need to take the arm apart and lubricate it too. Basically, all the moving parts need to be disassembled and cleaned. Lubricate where it's required only.
Hi JustMe83,
Follow the same advice. Your motor looks like it needs the same treatment.
-Chris
You probably need to take the arm apart and lubricate it too. Basically, all the moving parts need to be disassembled and cleaned. Lubricate where it's required only.
Hi JustMe83,
Follow the same advice. Your motor looks like it needs the same treatment.
-Chris
Success!
Yes, it was just because the old oil in the motor was sticky. I used CRC and after oiling the motor axle and reassembling the simple system, the motor started to run!
Then I noticed the start/stop-switch was missing a spring, and replaced it with a rubber band.
After greasing all places with care, I plugged the machine to a new Sony amplifier via DIN/RCA adapter. I threw in a vinyl and WOW! The sound was astonishing! So pure and clean, absolutely no snap, crackle and pop! 😱
This really was a bargain, it cost me nearly nothing (5 euros) and geese what machine I got! 😀
Yes, it was just because the old oil in the motor was sticky. I used CRC and after oiling the motor axle and reassembling the simple system, the motor started to run!
Then I noticed the start/stop-switch was missing a spring, and replaced it with a rubber band.
After greasing all places with care, I plugged the machine to a new Sony amplifier via DIN/RCA adapter. I threw in a vinyl and WOW! The sound was astonishing! So pure and clean, absolutely no snap, crackle and pop! 😱
This really was a bargain, it cost me nearly nothing (5 euros) and geese what machine I got! 😀
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