Simply not possible (objectively) if your gain structure is nominal. If you're referring to "compression" in the subjective sense, then I can't argue with you. Your opinion is the only one that matters.
Dave.
"Objective opinion" is an oxymoron.
Objective evaluation is not clouded by opinion. It's simply factual (or an attempt at) testing that's performed on a bench or in a lab. (No listening tests.)
Subjective evaluation is indeed opinion and, by definition, incontrovertible.
Just my opinion. 🙂
Dave.
Please, let's get back on topic. Bigun would like to have some EQ options for his tastes and room, but is wondering if the miniDSP, and maybe others, are distructive in other ways to the transmission of those signals. Anyone have their own subjective experience or objective comparisons?
Last edited:
He's asking for subjective evaluations. They're meaningless. And my opinion would be just as meaningless. 🙂
We've already heard that DSP "has the tendency to suck the life out of the music," the ADC/DSP/DAC chain is "bothersome," "it seems to kill some of the dynamics of the music."
Can anybody make sense of that?? And what the heck does "distructive in other ways to the transmission of those signals" mean? 🙂
The premise of the OP's original query is not well thought out. There's not an easy black/white answer to this question. I'm not sure why that's unclear.
As far as EQ'ing capability......this is a separate issue to his query. Any decent DSP processor box will be able to equalize a response to whatever is desired. That's trivial for the new-fangled gadgets nowadays. Any of the miniDSP products can do that easily.
Dave.
We've already heard that DSP "has the tendency to suck the life out of the music," the ADC/DSP/DAC chain is "bothersome," "it seems to kill some of the dynamics of the music."
Can anybody make sense of that?? And what the heck does "distructive in other ways to the transmission of those signals" mean? 🙂
The premise of the OP's original query is not well thought out. There's not an easy black/white answer to this question. I'm not sure why that's unclear.
As far as EQ'ing capability......this is a separate issue to his query. Any decent DSP processor box will be able to equalize a response to whatever is desired. That's trivial for the new-fangled gadgets nowadays. Any of the miniDSP products can do that easily.
Dave.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Thank goodness we've reached a point to agree on 🙄
Anybody else have some subjective opinions based on comparing DSP-in and DSP-out they would like to share ?
OK. I went back and read the original post. Answer, probably not. In fact, I cannot do that. I have nowhere in my data chain that I can tap an analog signal until after the DAC's. The only way I could do that is to insert a miniDSP into the output of the nanoDIGI and see it that has any affect on the input to that amp. The data cables and control cables and interconnect and .... is a nightmare, and I am not going to insert more stuff. Sorry.
Let me say that IMO I thing that the Topping D20 DAC's with no ADC in the chain sound clearer than the miniDSP.
Bob
Let me say that IMO I thing that the Topping D20 DAC's with no ADC in the chain sound clearer than the miniDSP.
Bob
Well, now that we've established you're interested in meaningless opinions, I'll offer you mine.
I've auditioned a wide variety of these DSP-based xover/EQ units (including most of the miniDSP units) in 'straight-through' mode, and I don't consider any of them "transparent." A properly configured A/B setup with levels matched and I can fairly easily identify the processed path. This is assuming signal levels are such that noise is swamped.
YMMV.
Dave.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Let me get this straight. You're listening to radio and you're worried about transparency, I've heard it all. You could always run different signal chains for different sources and/or convert. FM radio will always sound like crap so it doesn't really matter what you use to connect it to your speakers (it is the limiting factor in this case).
I used a MiniDSP 2 x 4 + MiniDigi combination, using the SPDIF input for all listening and the MiniDSP's volume pot, for some time. I recently sprung for the 4x10hd (same guts as the 2x8 board + Digi-FP and Vol-FP). When I first set up the 4 x 10, same speakers, same parameters, same amps, I thought that I heard some improvement - more detail, more transparency. It certainly was not a blind test, but I have no desire to go back to try to confirm that impression. If you're worried about degradation, I'd go for the 2x8 / 4x10, or the nanoDIGI with separate DAC's.
The only time I compared the same speaker with or without the DSP was with a Hawthorne Silver Iris coax. That speaker's FR is anything but flat. After EQ'ing it fairly flat with the MiniDSP, any loss in the DSP was swamped by the easily audible improvement in FR.
Bill
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
And you expect anybody to pay attention to your opinion after a statement like that 🙄
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Maybe he wants to use several different sources over time, without having to switch many components including the DSP? I think his desire is valid, and its something that others may want, too. Not every source is digital. He wants the DSP to alter the frequency response without adding unwanted effects. I've heard that the DEQX DSP/crossover was very transparent, and in that subjective sense, didn't impose the impression of bandwidth alterations, channel separation affects, or adding subjective distortion artifacts like dry-sounding coloration or slurred treble. Another DSP that was said to sound good was the Accuphase DG-28. They are both expensive, though. I should think that we can accomplish great sound and greater functionality today for less money, but the right people have to be involved in the design of it. Often times I'm left wondering if the people designing audio products were a bit hearing impared. Having met some, they don't seem to care so long as their design satisfies 2 or 3 measurements under ideal (unrealistic) test conditions.
Last edited:
Member
Joined 2006
Thanks Dave.
Could you share more on what dsp units you currently are using that you found least contaminated and happy listening to?
Last edited:
Volume control
Bob:
How do you control volume in your nanoDigi/Topping system? Are you using the volume control in the nanoDigi? That must be a digital volume control, isn't it? I have been thinking of running the nanoDigi into two Emotiva Dacs that I have. And the Emotiva's have their own volume control.
Bob:
How do you control volume in your nanoDigi/Topping system? Are you using the volume control in the nanoDigi? That must be a digital volume control, isn't it? I have been thinking of running the nanoDigi into two Emotiva Dacs that I have. And the Emotiva's have their own volume control.
I control the volume from the music player. Here is how I set up my rig.
1. Disable the cross overs, but not the EQ.
2. Turn off the bass amp. Set the player volume to max. Set the volume on the treble amp to a bit louder than your can stand.
3. Turn of the treble amp. Set the bass amp volume to match the treble amp at the proposed cross-over point.
4. Enable the cross-over and turn on the bass amp.
You should now be able to control the volume from the player without excessive digital attenuation. I up convert everything to 24/96 within the player so there are lots of bits to cut off.
Bob
1. Disable the cross overs, but not the EQ.
2. Turn off the bass amp. Set the player volume to max. Set the volume on the treble amp to a bit louder than your can stand.
3. Turn of the treble amp. Set the bass amp volume to match the treble amp at the proposed cross-over point.
4. Enable the cross-over and turn on the bass amp.
You should now be able to control the volume from the player without excessive digital attenuation. I up convert everything to 24/96 within the player so there are lots of bits to cut off.
Bob
- Status
- Not open for further replies.