hi all,
I have a woofer driver 8 ohm, 90dB and a midrange 8 ohm, 87dB.
I also have the crossover for 8 ohm drivers ...
What can I do to match their SPL?
I should attenuate the woofer? With an L-pad or just a series resistor before crossover? Can't find a calculator for series resistor value to SPL decrease ...
So what would be the solution(s)?
I have a woofer driver 8 ohm, 90dB and a midrange 8 ohm, 87dB.
I also have the crossover for 8 ohm drivers ...
What can I do to match their SPL?
I should attenuate the woofer? With an L-pad or just a series resistor before crossover? Can't find a calculator for series resistor value to SPL decrease ...
So what would be the solution(s)?
First you need to determine your baffle size so that you know where the 6dB baffle step lies in frequency. Then you need to determine how much baffle step you require given where the speakers are to be placed in the room. Most installations benefit from less than 6dB. Then you need to look carefully at the woofer and midrange frequency responses because the sensitivity in the crossover region may be a bit different to the quoted nominal sensitivity. You never know, you might be lucky and the nominal 3dB difference could be just what is needed.
Padding a woofer is not a good idea and it is why you often see designs with two midwoofers being used as a midrange.
Padding a woofer is not a good idea and it is why you often see designs with two midwoofers being used as a midrange.
Take a look at Troel Gravesen's Scan Speak Discovery 3 way Classic. The 22W woofer has higher sensitivity than the 10F/414 mid. It works quite well. Do not add any resistance to the woofer. It will affect your box tuning.
Biscu,
It's more complicated than that actually. Best is to measure, simulate, and build a crossover for the specific drivers.
If you cannot do that, build your system, measure, and then apply padding where and if needed.
Best,
E
It's more complicated than that actually. Best is to measure, simulate, and build a crossover for the specific drivers.
If you cannot do that, build your system, measure, and then apply padding where and if needed.
Best,
E
Wow! It seems it will be really complicated!
I already have the Dayton DC300-8 DC300-8 12" Classic Woofer 8 Ohm Specification Sheet
I told a little lie saying I have the midrange driver cause I did not buy it yet! Sorry ...
My budget for this 3 way diy project is as low as possible 🙁 usual **** about not having money ... so I look to find a cheap but good midrange and tweeter to partner with my DC300-8 that I already have.
Also I have found a 3-way crossover already made for 8 ohm drivers, cross points at 500Hz and 3000Hz.
And now comes the challenge! What midrange and tweeter can I use together with my DC300-8 and mentioned crossover!? Low budget, reasonable quality, 8 ohm and seems to me 90dB sensibility, since DC300-8 is 90dB!
Am I wrong?
I can't afford to make the enclosure twice! I have to pay a local carpenter to make the enclosures, is really expensive and long time ... so I have to be sure about the midrange and tweeter choice, to make the right enclosure.
I don't like low and lazy bass (and my room also) I prefer a fast, punchy, kick bass in the drums sound area! 🙂 So, my ideea for DC300-8 is a sealed enclosure, 42 litres.
I gave you all these details in hope you can give me some ideas about choosing the midrange and tweeter for this situation.
Thank you for your time and patience!
I already have the Dayton DC300-8 DC300-8 12" Classic Woofer 8 Ohm Specification Sheet
I told a little lie saying I have the midrange driver cause I did not buy it yet! Sorry ...
My budget for this 3 way diy project is as low as possible 🙁 usual **** about not having money ... so I look to find a cheap but good midrange and tweeter to partner with my DC300-8 that I already have.
Also I have found a 3-way crossover already made for 8 ohm drivers, cross points at 500Hz and 3000Hz.
And now comes the challenge! What midrange and tweeter can I use together with my DC300-8 and mentioned crossover!? Low budget, reasonable quality, 8 ohm and seems to me 90dB sensibility, since DC300-8 is 90dB!
Am I wrong?
I can't afford to make the enclosure twice! I have to pay a local carpenter to make the enclosures, is really expensive and long time ... so I have to be sure about the midrange and tweeter choice, to make the right enclosure.
I don't like low and lazy bass (and my room also) I prefer a fast, punchy, kick bass in the drums sound area! 🙂 So, my ideea for DC300-8 is a sealed enclosure, 42 litres.
I gave you all these details in hope you can give me some ideas about choosing the midrange and tweeter for this situation.
Thank you for your time and patience!
A competent cossover cannot be designed without knowing the properties of the drivers, the size of the baffle, the location in the room,... If you are going to buy a crossover that ignores all this information then the performance of the overall speaker is going to be modest at best. Choosing modestly priced drivers would seem wise.
Does your fixed crossover allow you to add resistors to reduce the output of the tweeter? I presume it has nothing for baffle step compensation? It is going to be hard to give advice on how to avoid a bad job and achieve a poor one. Does the performance matter much, that is, are you throwing something together mainly for the fun of it?
Does your fixed crossover allow you to add resistors to reduce the output of the tweeter? I presume it has nothing for baffle step compensation? It is going to be hard to give advice on how to avoid a bad job and achieve a poor one. Does the performance matter much, that is, are you throwing something together mainly for the fun of it?
Biscu, being on a budget, I don't see the point in hiring a carpenter to make the enclosures. I'd rather suggest to invest modestly in Dayton Audio drive units for these have published frd's and zma's to work with in a XO simulator. I'll give you a hand if necessary. First have your unfinished boxes sound decently then you will think about final looks. Chipboard is truly good enough building material. My latest philosophy is to use thin boards with enough bracing which gives a rigid structure along with low weight.
Andy, what you say is a really proffesional way to do, even expert I would say, which is far from my abilities, time and disposition. For sure this would be the way to achieve a top hi-fi product, real one ... Even it sounds bad, yes, its about some fun but also I hope even in my way, something acceptable must be achieved.
Early, in a post reply, another interesting ideea show up (thanks by the way) to use 2 midrange drivers to reach the woofer SPL, already done some simulations in WinISD and yes, found a few solutions that matches perfect the SPL for both woofer and midrange. But that means 4 midrange drivers, price increase and bigger/complicated enclosure, also more money. But is a nice opportunity for a D'Apolito arrangement between the 2 midranges and the tweeter.
I can put myself additional resistors to the crossover, I have what is needed to solder, cut, etc. The two crossovers I am oscilating between are:
Dayton audio XO3W-375/3K 3-Way Crossover 375/3,000 Hz | Loudspeaker freaks
or Filtru 3 cai Sal HV 328 (121,45RON) Partysound
SAL being half price from Dayton's XO. But with Dayton I would cross at 375Hz that seems better to me than 500Hz as in SAL solution!?
I don't have the tools to make myself even prototype enclosures 🙁 is a real pain here to find someone to cut your boards with 2mm tolerance and I dont have the tools to correct all their mistakes . Also for me the holes for the drivers are a nightmare to make ... so, hardly I found only one good carpenter that wants to do speaker enclosures! Yes, hard to believe, but from 6-7 carpenters I have asked, only one accepted this kind of work. And of course is expensive.
I would love to use for midrange Dayton midranges, 5 or 6 inches, but they are all 3-4dB below woofer's SPL.
Not sure I have understand what you said : "I'd rather suggest to invest modestly in Dayton Audio drive units for these have published frd's and zma's to work with in a XO simulator." !?
Thank you
Early, in a post reply, another interesting ideea show up (thanks by the way) to use 2 midrange drivers to reach the woofer SPL, already done some simulations in WinISD and yes, found a few solutions that matches perfect the SPL for both woofer and midrange. But that means 4 midrange drivers, price increase and bigger/complicated enclosure, also more money. But is a nice opportunity for a D'Apolito arrangement between the 2 midranges and the tweeter.
I can put myself additional resistors to the crossover, I have what is needed to solder, cut, etc. The two crossovers I am oscilating between are:
Dayton audio XO3W-375/3K 3-Way Crossover 375/3,000 Hz | Loudspeaker freaks
or Filtru 3 cai Sal HV 328 (121,45RON) Partysound
SAL being half price from Dayton's XO. But with Dayton I would cross at 375Hz that seems better to me than 500Hz as in SAL solution!?
I don't have the tools to make myself even prototype enclosures 🙁 is a real pain here to find someone to cut your boards with 2mm tolerance and I dont have the tools to correct all their mistakes . Also for me the holes for the drivers are a nightmare to make ... so, hardly I found only one good carpenter that wants to do speaker enclosures! Yes, hard to believe, but from 6-7 carpenters I have asked, only one accepted this kind of work. And of course is expensive.
I would love to use for midrange Dayton midranges, 5 or 6 inches, but they are all 3-4dB below woofer's SPL.
Not sure I have understand what you said : "I'd rather suggest to invest modestly in Dayton Audio drive units for these have published frd's and zma's to work with in a XO simulator." !?
Thank you
Meant inexpensive units were okay, these have available data to simulate crossover and not waste your time and money on prebuilt ones. There is way to overcome unprecisely cut timber and make holes for drivers. You simply make measures larger than the expected tolerance and cut the excess with jigsaw or a hand saw. When I first made the holes, I did it by boring many holes inside the circle and saw the rest with a hand bow saw.
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But prebuilt XO are way cheaper than one I could make!? I have done some research and to find the right coils is a nightmare and total price for capacitors and coils bought separately is 3 time more than a prebuilt XO.
The SAL XO are arround 70 usd per pair and Dayton XO are 150 usd per pair. I would say is a nice price. I believe the most important is that the coils to be OK!
But I intent to upgrade the capacitors and maybe resistors in a prebuilt XO ... during time!
Cand you indicate me some XO simulators you use?
How can I cut myself straight lines in my kitchen? The result would be a disaster when trying to mount together 2 boards, lets say rear and lateral board, in order to make a sealed joint with no air ...
The SAL XO are arround 70 usd per pair and Dayton XO are 150 usd per pair. I would say is a nice price. I believe the most important is that the coils to be OK!
But I intent to upgrade the capacitors and maybe resistors in a prebuilt XO ... during time!
Cand you indicate me some XO simulators you use?
How can I cut myself straight lines in my kitchen? The result would be a disaster when trying to mount together 2 boards, lets say rear and lateral board, in order to make a sealed joint with no air ...
I use XSim for XO sims and J.Bagby's Response Modeler and Woofer Box And Circuit Designer excel spreadsheets to do the baffle step and box volume sims. Obviously you'd have to cut the wood there where you buy boards and these folks own the machinery for cutting it straight. One does not know how expensive filter parts may become without first attempting to simulate. I'll do that just to show the ballpark values. Don't make the mistake novice DIYers make, worry about passive parts quality, instead of the values.
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I've just finished my third speaker build. The first ones I built about 5 years ago. It took me about two years to get the crossover right and that was with all the proper measuring gear and software. Before I got the crossovers right, any old cheap speakers would sound better.
With my current speakers its taken me a couple of weeks and around 10 different crossover revisions to be happy with the sound.
With my current speakers its taken me a couple of weeks and around 10 different crossover revisions to be happy with the sound.
Jesus! Those crossovers seems to be speakers diy killer! I have to reflect a little time if I really want to get inside this mess ...
And meanwhile still no ideas what budget midrange drive should I choose for my existing woofer drivers! And than what tweeter?
I can buy local, at good prices, Monacor and Visaton drives, but up to now I can't find a 5-6" driver with real 90dB SPL in WinISD simulation 🙁 ... all are arround 87dB !
I also can buy from EU shops for Dayton, SB Acoustics ... but pricing and shipment obviously goes higher.
As for cutting the boards, it came to me an ideea, to go to a bricolage shop and ask them to cut my 2 boards at the same time! I already saw they can do this, so if they are missing 1-2 mm at least I will have pairs of boards with same dimensions! Like 2 laterals, than front and rear board , etc, seems like a good ideea. And yes , it would be much cheaper than a dedicated carpenter!
And meanwhile still no ideas what budget midrange drive should I choose for my existing woofer drivers! And than what tweeter?
I can buy local, at good prices, Monacor and Visaton drives, but up to now I can't find a 5-6" driver with real 90dB SPL in WinISD simulation 🙁 ... all are arround 87dB !
I also can buy from EU shops for Dayton, SB Acoustics ... but pricing and shipment obviously goes higher.
As for cutting the boards, it came to me an ideea, to go to a bricolage shop and ask them to cut my 2 boards at the same time! I already saw they can do this, so if they are missing 1-2 mm at least I will have pairs of boards with same dimensions! Like 2 laterals, than front and rear board , etc, seems like a good ideea. And yes , it would be much cheaper than a dedicated carpenter!
Biscu, your best bet is to buy a kit that uses parts you like. So now that you've bought a woofer, you can probably find a number of kits from Parts Express or ... Meniscus that use it.
You may even find pre-cut cabinets.
Best,
Erik
You may even find pre-cut cabinets.
Best,
Erik
It's really hard to make preassembled crossovers work well. Haphazardly applied, they really don't work the way you want at all unless you have dumb luck.
Here's a "midrange" that might make your job easier. FaitalPRO 5FE120 5" Professional Midbass Midrange Woofer 8 Ohm Build your cabinets for a baffle step of 375 Hz, put an L-pad on the midrange, use crossover recommended above, and you will have a pretty smooth crossover point between woofer and midrange. Plus you address baffle step.
Choosing appropriate crossover points makes the job a lot simpler. You can avoid impedance correction and/or notch filters sometimes if you put your thinking hat on. Haphazard crossover decisions (just throw stuff together) can provide disappointing results.
Here's a "midrange" that might make your job easier. FaitalPRO 5FE120 5" Professional Midbass Midrange Woofer 8 Ohm Build your cabinets for a baffle step of 375 Hz, put an L-pad on the midrange, use crossover recommended above, and you will have a pretty smooth crossover point between woofer and midrange. Plus you address baffle step.
Choosing appropriate crossover points makes the job a lot simpler. You can avoid impedance correction and/or notch filters sometimes if you put your thinking hat on. Haphazard crossover decisions (just throw stuff together) can provide disappointing results.
3 Way Dayton Audio Project
This will work reasonably well in comparison to generic prebuilt XO filters and the total cost of drivers + passive parts = 224 $ without postage. I have simmed baffle step in accordance with the drawing measures, using Dayton Audio data files adapted to vented box of 120 litres for a woofer and 4 litres sealed for midrange.
This will work reasonably well in comparison to generic prebuilt XO filters and the total cost of drivers + passive parts = 224 $ without postage. I have simmed baffle step in accordance with the drawing measures, using Dayton Audio data files adapted to vented box of 120 litres for a woofer and 4 litres sealed for midrange.
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Thank you all for the advices and ideas!
Nice driver that FaitalPro ! And what response curve ... wow!
I also have found an interesting one, SPL is perfect match with my woofer in WinISD simulation: MONACOR - SP-6/108PRO
My intention is to build 2 enclosures, the big one for the 12" woofer, as narrow as possible and this means 320mm width with the driver positioned maximum at the top (see attached pic), 42 litres, closed box.
The second enclosure will be for the midrange and tweeter, also closed box (seems about 6 litres), also as narrow as possible and the midrange will be positioned as low as possible to be near the woofer driver. Of course the tweeter will be as close as possible to the midrange driver.
In this situation will be a significant baffle step effect!? If not, why to build a L-pad for the midrange driver since it seems to be same 90dB like the woofer driver?
Regards
Nice driver that FaitalPro ! And what response curve ... wow!
I also have found an interesting one, SPL is perfect match with my woofer in WinISD simulation: MONACOR - SP-6/108PRO
My intention is to build 2 enclosures, the big one for the 12" woofer, as narrow as possible and this means 320mm width with the driver positioned maximum at the top (see attached pic), 42 litres, closed box.
The second enclosure will be for the midrange and tweeter, also closed box (seems about 6 litres), also as narrow as possible and the midrange will be positioned as low as possible to be near the woofer driver. Of course the tweeter will be as close as possible to the midrange driver.
In this situation will be a significant baffle step effect!? If not, why to build a L-pad for the midrange driver since it seems to be same 90dB like the woofer driver?
Regards
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WoW Lojzek you are really kind to put so much time with me! Thank you very much!
Can I dare to ask you to make the same simmulation and parts list for the situation with 42 litres closed box for the DC300-8 woofer?
Where do you get that list for crossover parts? Is a good e-shop for those in EU?
Can I dare to ask you to make the same simmulation and parts list for the situation with 42 litres closed box for the DC300-8 woofer?
Where do you get that list for crossover parts? Is a good e-shop for those in EU?
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