Hi!
Im a newly registered member but I have been reading these forums for a very long time.
I have been reading about line arrays for home use, and have heard a pair of them used as smaller PA systems, and as I quite often don't sit at a sweetspot 2,22m from right and 2,22m from left speaker and also do move around a bit, the concept might work good, or better than the usual 2/3 way system for me.
I am in the midst of researching and reading up on the different decisions that has to be made when designing such a LA system and was searching the forums for capable drivers, but what i found was almost always older threads or threads about different use of drivera than my intended use.
So, here comes what I have thought up so far. Feel free to criticize the idea or give me ideas of a better plan.
General ideas of the system:
Preferably quite small footprint, but up to 30 cm width X 40 depth is possible, so I am not locked to a small internal volume.
DCX 2496 is available for EQ and eventual XO work.
2 x 12" subwoofers playing nicely up to 100-200hz available if needed, but I would prefer to use a 80hz XO for the obvious reasons. Might be expanded upon, in my head it already is, at 8-12 12" drivers either stacked upon eachother or along the front wall, but for now there is only 2, which is sufficient.
Using only WR/FR drivers or WR/FR crossed over to tweeter/s out of the critical vocal range is not decided upon yet, there seems to be good reasons as to go either way on that subject.
The arrays would be 200cm as that is the height of the room at intended placement. If i move, the arrays would be added on to so that the array goes from floor to roof. This distance would be filled as good as possible with membrane surface.
The arrays might be curved, if that gives obvious benefits. I've read that if going curved baffle the focus point should be several meters beyond normal listening place?
Sweet spot listening place between 2,5m to 4,5m. But I do move around, and that is a large reason behind going the LA route.
High output is wanted, and dynamics.
But I usually listen at about 90db at sweetspot. Also alot louder and lower also depending on mood.
Sensitivity isn't very important, but it is nice as a sidepoint.
What I want opinions on:
The best soundning drivers reasonably prized, not more than 15-20$ and preferably cheaper.
Size of driver's would preferably be in the 2-4" range for good c-c distance. That would mean about 20 drivers per speaker maximum, probably more like 18. The threads found on the subject is years old, what new drivers are available? What have been tried and tested to sound good. I guess this is a good place for the small FR guys to give advice on.
I also want advice on tweeters that might be a good choice for the intended use. Same here, no unreasonably priced drivers. If going with a single tweeter the price obviously could be higher, but I still don't know if going with tweeters is the best option.
This is something i would like to hear more about, pro's and con's of going either way,, tweeter or not. And if, a good XO point would be? I guess there is more things behind this choice in a LA design.
Multiple tweeters? If so, why?
I see that planars/ribbon tweeters are most commonly used, why? I do like the aound of the ribbons I've heard, but I also like the smoothness of a good fabric dome, such as the HDS tweeter.
Waveguide? Obviously quite hard to implement, especially if using several tweeters. When i say WG i mean something like the elsinore WG, not a large surface area WG. But, I am not locked to a thin baffle, if there's good reasons behind going wider.
So, with all this in mind, what kind of drivers would you guys give me advice on?
Preferably something you've listened to. What is available is not hard looking up. I'm in EU, but it is possible to get almost every driver made in the world inside EU.
Pro's and con's of going tweeter/tweeters?
Thank you all in advance!
/MIJK
Im a newly registered member but I have been reading these forums for a very long time.
I have been reading about line arrays for home use, and have heard a pair of them used as smaller PA systems, and as I quite often don't sit at a sweetspot 2,22m from right and 2,22m from left speaker and also do move around a bit, the concept might work good, or better than the usual 2/3 way system for me.
I am in the midst of researching and reading up on the different decisions that has to be made when designing such a LA system and was searching the forums for capable drivers, but what i found was almost always older threads or threads about different use of drivera than my intended use.
So, here comes what I have thought up so far. Feel free to criticize the idea or give me ideas of a better plan.
General ideas of the system:
Preferably quite small footprint, but up to 30 cm width X 40 depth is possible, so I am not locked to a small internal volume.
DCX 2496 is available for EQ and eventual XO work.
2 x 12" subwoofers playing nicely up to 100-200hz available if needed, but I would prefer to use a 80hz XO for the obvious reasons. Might be expanded upon, in my head it already is, at 8-12 12" drivers either stacked upon eachother or along the front wall, but for now there is only 2, which is sufficient.
Using only WR/FR drivers or WR/FR crossed over to tweeter/s out of the critical vocal range is not decided upon yet, there seems to be good reasons as to go either way on that subject.
The arrays would be 200cm as that is the height of the room at intended placement. If i move, the arrays would be added on to so that the array goes from floor to roof. This distance would be filled as good as possible with membrane surface.
The arrays might be curved, if that gives obvious benefits. I've read that if going curved baffle the focus point should be several meters beyond normal listening place?
Sweet spot listening place between 2,5m to 4,5m. But I do move around, and that is a large reason behind going the LA route.
High output is wanted, and dynamics.
But I usually listen at about 90db at sweetspot. Also alot louder and lower also depending on mood.
Sensitivity isn't very important, but it is nice as a sidepoint.
What I want opinions on:
The best soundning drivers reasonably prized, not more than 15-20$ and preferably cheaper.
Size of driver's would preferably be in the 2-4" range for good c-c distance. That would mean about 20 drivers per speaker maximum, probably more like 18. The threads found on the subject is years old, what new drivers are available? What have been tried and tested to sound good. I guess this is a good place for the small FR guys to give advice on.
I also want advice on tweeters that might be a good choice for the intended use. Same here, no unreasonably priced drivers. If going with a single tweeter the price obviously could be higher, but I still don't know if going with tweeters is the best option.
This is something i would like to hear more about, pro's and con's of going either way,, tweeter or not. And if, a good XO point would be? I guess there is more things behind this choice in a LA design.
Multiple tweeters? If so, why?
I see that planars/ribbon tweeters are most commonly used, why? I do like the aound of the ribbons I've heard, but I also like the smoothness of a good fabric dome, such as the HDS tweeter.
Waveguide? Obviously quite hard to implement, especially if using several tweeters. When i say WG i mean something like the elsinore WG, not a large surface area WG. But, I am not locked to a thin baffle, if there's good reasons behind going wider.
So, with all this in mind, what kind of drivers would you guys give me advice on?
Preferably something you've listened to. What is available is not hard looking up. I'm in EU, but it is possible to get almost every driver made in the world inside EU.
Pro's and con's of going tweeter/tweeters?
Thank you all in advance!
/MIJK
So I'm out-dated, with my years old thread huh? 😀
Have you seen this thread:
Full range line array for wall or corner placement
Not that old or out-dated with excellent drivers, just above your limit though. Same drivers as used in this CBT array:
My New Line Array--It's a Modified CBT24
You'll find a lot of array threads with the Vifa/Peerless TC9 FD18-08 or TG9 FD10-08 for good reason. They are excellent little drivers for this job. Even if they are years/decades old, they are still hard to beat for what they (can) do. Most of us use FIR filtering for processing, but not all of us. The full range forum has quite some number of threads about arrays.
Do you need a tweeter? I did not use one, I still run my (TC9) arrays full range. One day I may experiment, I've done practically everything else.
Have you seen this thread:
Full range line array for wall or corner placement
Not that old or out-dated with excellent drivers, just above your limit though. Same drivers as used in this CBT array:
My New Line Array--It's a Modified CBT24
You'll find a lot of array threads with the Vifa/Peerless TC9 FD18-08 or TG9 FD10-08 for good reason. They are excellent little drivers for this job. Even if they are years/decades old, they are still hard to beat for what they (can) do. Most of us use FIR filtering for processing, but not all of us. The full range forum has quite some number of threads about arrays.
Do you need a tweeter? I did not use one, I still run my (TC9) arrays full range. One day I may experiment, I've done practically everything else.
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Haha, nice reply!
That's not what I said, but if you feel old and outdated it's perfectly fine with me 🙂
I ws maybe more wondering if it might have happened something on the market that I might not know of. Aometimea alot can happen in a short perios if time, other years nothing happens.
Also this thread is about the other choices I need to make.
Yes the TC/TG9 drivers are interesting, and also easy to install with their flat outer basket. I dint really know what the difference ia between them except a different membrane thou. Have you heard both? Are there any difference sonically between them? I know some feel and think that a paper based membrane sounds better, but from what I've heard i feel that there is other things that make more of a difference.
When it come to a tweeter, I do know that my hearing is fine and I do hear allt the way up to 18,5khz somewhere. But i do not know how much of a difference it woukd make, in the end. Maybe it would be a good idea to buy a pair of the most used drivers in this size and listen to them, it ain't that much of an outlay.
Maybe your ears are outdated? 🙂
My fahter is building a pair of fostex horns, a whole lot of a different kind of speaker, but might get an idea of what might be missing without a tweeter. But that is also very individual between drivers..
One point worth considering might be how many tweeters are needed to be able to keep up to the woofer mid..
I guess one might be the limiting part. I'm not after crazy high spl capabilities, but it sure would be nice to have.
Anyone have any idea how the Faital 3Fe22/25 drivers compare to a TC9?
How does several vs one tweeter impact the vertical pattern?
......
That's not what I said, but if you feel old and outdated it's perfectly fine with me 🙂
I ws maybe more wondering if it might have happened something on the market that I might not know of. Aometimea alot can happen in a short perios if time, other years nothing happens.
Also this thread is about the other choices I need to make.
Yes the TC/TG9 drivers are interesting, and also easy to install with their flat outer basket. I dint really know what the difference ia between them except a different membrane thou. Have you heard both? Are there any difference sonically between them? I know some feel and think that a paper based membrane sounds better, but from what I've heard i feel that there is other things that make more of a difference.
When it come to a tweeter, I do know that my hearing is fine and I do hear allt the way up to 18,5khz somewhere. But i do not know how much of a difference it woukd make, in the end. Maybe it would be a good idea to buy a pair of the most used drivers in this size and listen to them, it ain't that much of an outlay.
Maybe your ears are outdated? 🙂
My fahter is building a pair of fostex horns, a whole lot of a different kind of speaker, but might get an idea of what might be missing without a tweeter. But that is also very individual between drivers..
One point worth considering might be how many tweeters are needed to be able to keep up to the woofer mid..
I guess one might be the limiting part. I'm not after crazy high spl capabilities, but it sure would be nice to have.
Anyone have any idea how the Faital 3Fe22/25 drivers compare to a TC9?
How does several vs one tweeter impact the vertical pattern?
......
for what it's worth i have used both the faital 3fe22 and TC9 in horns and there's not much to choose between them
the faitals go louder and sound cleaner, for my money. the TC9s are sweeter sounding, if that's a thing.
the faital's are very light, which might be nice, depending on the system. I'd be bloody hard pressed to decide between the two to be honest.
my faital setup seems more sensitive to decent amplification, but i have no data to back that up.
the faitals go louder and sound cleaner, for my money. the TC9s are sweeter sounding, if that's a thing.
the faital's are very light, which might be nice, depending on the system. I'd be bloody hard pressed to decide between the two to be honest.
my faital setup seems more sensitive to decent amplification, but i have no data to back that up.
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