Hello everyone first post here and I also have question and looking for some advice.
I have a pair of Acoustic Research AR9's "High Res" and the drivers are showing their age...I bought them in 2000 and have been driven pretty hard at times with an onkyo M504 and PS Audio 250 Deltas. I have been looking for replacement drivers with no luck so I figured I would replace them with something else. I know its an apples and oranges type of senerio but I am actually leaning towards a paper cone. I am currently driving them with an Aragon 3002. I'm only driving the mids and tweeter(bi-wire) since I have a 2 sub setup but I would like to replace all the drivers and give to my son. The 3002 will eventually drive the Jensen Illuminators that I'm about 70% done with....my first diy speaker project.
Any suggestions. .....dayton...scanspeak??
just gotta make sure the dimentions are the same or close.
Thanks.
I have a pair of Acoustic Research AR9's "High Res" and the drivers are showing their age...I bought them in 2000 and have been driven pretty hard at times with an onkyo M504 and PS Audio 250 Deltas. I have been looking for replacement drivers with no luck so I figured I would replace them with something else. I know its an apples and oranges type of senerio but I am actually leaning towards a paper cone. I am currently driving them with an Aragon 3002. I'm only driving the mids and tweeter(bi-wire) since I have a 2 sub setup but I would like to replace all the drivers and give to my son. The 3002 will eventually drive the Jensen Illuminators that I'm about 70% done with....my first diy speaker project.
Any suggestions. .....dayton...scanspeak??
just gotta make sure the dimentions are the same or close.
Thanks.
A couple of things. This is the Full range forum so we deal with one driver speakers, you may get better help from the Multiway forum as the AR9 is a 4-way speaker with 5 drivers.
Given that it is a 4 way it has a crossover designed for specific drivers - you cannot just swap out the drivers with another brand even if the physical size fits. If the old drivers still work you can measure their individual T/S parameters and then scour driver databases for a close match. Even then, it probably won't sound the same or as good.
Given that it is a 4 way it has a crossover designed for specific drivers - you cannot just swap out the drivers with another brand even if the physical size fits. If the old drivers still work you can measure their individual T/S parameters and then scour driver databases for a close match. Even then, it probably won't sound the same or as good.
Hi,
If it ain't bust don't fix it and ruin a great original speaker that
is in good working order, replacing all the drivers is vandalism.
(And will work very poorly without a total x/o redesign.)
Pointlessly expensive, they will be worth less with new drivers,
though I imagine all the current drivers would go for very
premium prices on epray, funding a cost effective
redesign if you have the requisite skill set. *
Replace all the x/o electrolytics with like for like new. Check all
connections, clean if necessary, solder if they look dodgy.
If the low mid and bass cones have dodgy surrounds then refoam them.
Just clean up the drivers as best you can, a little silicon spray,
the stuff for tarting up car vinyl, will do little harm, and protect
the surrounds somewhat if they are in good working order.
Sprucing up cabinets is relatively easy.
Marginal surrounds can be saved with a decent coating of
water based latex (e.g. Copydex in the UK, a carpet glue).
Dust it off with talc a day later, it will look better long run.
rgds, sreten.
I recall a hifi show circa 1980 with the AR9's blasting out "My
Sharona" by the Knack, they were great for that sort of stuff,
and a great design if you like it loud and big for the time.
Would make great L+R AV speakers nowadays.
* Which at the moment you clearly do not have.
If it ain't bust don't fix it and ruin a great original speaker that
is in good working order, replacing all the drivers is vandalism.
(And will work very poorly without a total x/o redesign.)
Pointlessly expensive, they will be worth less with new drivers,
though I imagine all the current drivers would go for very
premium prices on epray, funding a cost effective
redesign if you have the requisite skill set. *
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Replace all the x/o electrolytics with like for like new. Check all
connections, clean if necessary, solder if they look dodgy.
If the low mid and bass cones have dodgy surrounds then refoam them.
Just clean up the drivers as best you can, a little silicon spray,
the stuff for tarting up car vinyl, will do little harm, and protect
the surrounds somewhat if they are in good working order.
Sprucing up cabinets is relatively easy.
Marginal surrounds can be saved with a decent coating of
water based latex (e.g. Copydex in the UK, a carpet glue).
Dust it off with talc a day later, it will look better long run.
rgds, sreten.
I recall a hifi show circa 1980 with the AR9's blasting out "My
Sharona" by the Knack, they were great for that sort of stuff,
and a great design if you like it loud and big for the time.
Would make great L+R AV speakers nowadays.
* Which at the moment you clearly do not have.
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Moving this to the multi-way forum..
Sorry about that.
The biggest problem I face is finding replacements. I have been looking ...maybe in the wrong places, for quite sometime with no success. So I figured I would ask the experts here for something they thought might be similar or close. Refoaming is out of the question since some are pretty much unusable thanks to a small 4 legged guest we had a while back. I know changing them is not good , but a total mismatch would be even worse. The cabinets themselves are in great shape and I would hate to see them not to be used at all.
The biggest problem I face is finding replacements. I have been looking ...maybe in the wrong places, for quite sometime with no success. So I figured I would ask the experts here for something they thought might be similar or close. Refoaming is out of the question since some are pretty much unusable thanks to a small 4 legged guest we had a while back. I know changing them is not good , but a total mismatch would be even worse. The cabinets themselves are in great shape and I would hate to see them not to be used at all.
Hi,
I've fixed paper cones with utterly terminal looking rips and tears
quite easily, just using PVA, tissue and a lot of commom sense.
If they are paper bass units, and large lumps of the cone are
not missing, they can be fixed with sympathetic rebuilding.
rgds, sreten.
This is what I have.
Acoustic-Research AR9
They are aluminum drivers and were a delight to listen to. I would much rather replace them with original but I just cant find them. It looks like I'm going to have to have them tested to see. Unless anybody here knows where I might be able to find them. The aluminium has been chewed on 2 of them and one woofer is damaged.
Stupid question but how would I go about getting them tested so I can see about a match??
Acoustic-Research AR9
They are aluminum drivers and were a delight to listen to. I would much rather replace them with original but I just cant find them. It looks like I'm going to have to have them tested to see. Unless anybody here knows where I might be able to find them. The aluminium has been chewed on 2 of them and one woofer is damaged.
Stupid question but how would I go about getting them tested so I can see about a match??
+1 Inductor.
Ghostnotes: You've received excellent advice from member: Sreten, with no indication that you've either read or acknowledged it. Pics of YOUR speakers,not some generic INTERWEB example, are what's required here to give us an idea of how to best advise you, if they are, in fact, knackered.
However I get the distinct feeling you've decided new drivers are the solution to whatever problem, real or imagined.
Without the TS parameters you'll have significant difficulty in finding replacement drivers that would in any way resemble what AR originally utilized. And as Sreten advised....simply popping in something that appears similar will require significant X/Over adjustment.
Ghostnotes: You've received excellent advice from member: Sreten, with no indication that you've either read or acknowledged it. Pics of YOUR speakers,not some generic INTERWEB example, are what's required here to give us an idea of how to best advise you, if they are, in fact, knackered.
However I get the distinct feeling you've decided new drivers are the solution to whatever problem, real or imagined.
Without the TS parameters you'll have significant difficulty in finding replacement drivers that would in any way resemble what AR originally utilized. And as Sreten advised....simply popping in something that appears similar will require significant X/Over adjustment.
You are right I have made up my mind.
Trust me, i know this and yes it is real. The drivers were destroyed, the aluminum cone was chewed on as a well as my bass driver for my left speaker. The only thing that remains is the tweeter. I had to take one of my mids from my right and move it to my left. The bad one's are gone. Now the reason i posted the web pic is because most of the time when i mention AR-9's people automatically think of the vintage ones which are completely different. Plus, it has some of the spec's included if that might help the pro's help me decide. If i have to rework a crossover, then call it a project. As an Electrical engineer, I damn well better be able to understand the dynamics of tuning one. Albeit, it is not my exact area of study but Ohm's law does not change.
So i ask again, please can you help me??
Having found the right model of AR9, albeit this is a bit of badge engineering, you need to measure up and assess what candidate drivers can be fitted. This may be awkward on that baffle.
Since you are familiar with Troels Gravesen's website, it should be possible to rustle up a promising MTM arrangement. For instance:
Vifa PL14WJ-
Ellam d'
Most 5" drivers are 148mm chassis IIRC. You can assess the filtering on your AR9 to see how it works. I'd draw the schematic. The bass must have some sort of low frequency filtering passing to the MTM section. You might even find the drivers marked. It may be possible to use the existing titanium tweeter with a bit of level adjustment.
It is also possible to convert a good two way design to a MTM without too much difficulty. The first example I gave does precisely that.
Since you are familiar with Troels Gravesen's website, it should be possible to rustle up a promising MTM arrangement. For instance:
Vifa PL14WJ-
Ellam d'
Most 5" drivers are 148mm chassis IIRC. You can assess the filtering on your AR9 to see how it works. I'd draw the schematic. The bass must have some sort of low frequency filtering passing to the MTM section. You might even find the drivers marked. It may be possible to use the existing titanium tweeter with a bit of level adjustment.
It is also possible to convert a good two way design to a MTM without too much difficulty. The first example I gave does precisely that.
Attachments
Here's the specs:
Dimensions (HxWxD): 37" x 9 5/16" x 17"
Driver complement: Plasma Transferred Diamond Hardened 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter
Dual 5 1/4" MagAlloy Monocoque Mid-Range
10" Side-firing High Excursion Woofer
All transducers are Magnetically Shielded
Frequency response: 32Hz-23KHz ±2dB
Crossover frequency: 100Hz and 3.2KHz
Sensitivity: 92dB @ 2.83 Volts/Meter
System impedance: 8 Ohms Nominal
Recommended amp. power: 20 Watts~250 Watts
Finish: Black ash, cherry woodgrain
You'd expect some sort of notching filter with metal drivers. They look like HiVi drivers to me.
Dimensions (HxWxD): 37" x 9 5/16" x 17"
Driver complement: Plasma Transferred Diamond Hardened 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter
Dual 5 1/4" MagAlloy Monocoque Mid-Range
10" Side-firing High Excursion Woofer
All transducers are Magnetically Shielded
Frequency response: 32Hz-23KHz ±2dB
Crossover frequency: 100Hz and 3.2KHz
Sensitivity: 92dB @ 2.83 Volts/Meter
System impedance: 8 Ohms Nominal
Recommended amp. power: 20 Watts~250 Watts
Finish: Black ash, cherry woodgrain
You'd expect some sort of notching filter with metal drivers. They look like HiVi drivers to me.
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This is the kind of input im looking for.
If i could find those drivers i would not hesitate to purchase them. I always liked the sound these put out. A little bright but a real good sound stage, or at least I've been lucky enough with room acoustics. The system is a little big for my listening area but thats about to change. I have the AR's and center, 2 Velodyne 12" subs and a set of Niles Pro1870's for rear sound. Right now I have the subs crossed at about 100Hz and have not messed with boundry settings on the Niles or on my receiver.
You pretty much read my mind with the Ellam's,
i was considering them and then working the x-over. I work out of the country on a rotational job and when i get back i plan on looking into removing the x-over to see. Then again The Ellam's are really close, I might just go ahead and get them and see if i can build a/the crossover around them.
I found Troels Gravesen's website by complete accident but fell in love with the illuminators. Never heard them and could NEVER afford that caliber of speaker outright, but from the response point of view and the response from people who have heard them...I could do a lot worse.My woodworking skills are crap and i don't have the tools. BUT what i do have (i know I'm cheating here) is a lot of knowledge in automation.....Robots/CNC and Autocad. So i put them together and saved a ton of $$ in labor. I just drew out the panels in Autocad and send them to a multi axis router......
If i could find those drivers i would not hesitate to purchase them. I always liked the sound these put out. A little bright but a real good sound stage, or at least I've been lucky enough with room acoustics. The system is a little big for my listening area but thats about to change. I have the AR's and center, 2 Velodyne 12" subs and a set of Niles Pro1870's for rear sound. Right now I have the subs crossed at about 100Hz and have not messed with boundry settings on the Niles or on my receiver.
You pretty much read my mind with the Ellam's,
i was considering them and then working the x-over. I work out of the country on a rotational job and when i get back i plan on looking into removing the x-over to see. Then again The Ellam's are really close, I might just go ahead and get them and see if i can build a/the crossover around them.I found Troels Gravesen's website by complete accident but fell in love with the illuminators. Never heard them and could NEVER afford that caliber of speaker outright, but from the response point of view and the response from people who have heard them...I could do a lot worse.My woodworking skills are crap and i don't have the tools. BUT what i do have (i know I'm cheating here) is a lot of knowledge in automation.....Robots/CNC and Autocad. So i put them together and saved a ton of $$ in labor. I just drew out the panels in Autocad and send them to a multi axis router......
Not these HiVi M5A are they?
HiVi M5a 5" Aluminum/Magnesium Midbass
There's a newer M5N too.
You could look at some SEAS 5" metal units too. Troels has done this stuff IIRC, at least with Excel units.
H1141-08 L15RLY/P
I've a feeling Dayton do something too.
Notching is just usually a question of putting a resistor and capacitor across the bass coil. Called a tank. Works around 7kHz. Thinking about it, I don't suppose a replacement bass is too hard. Just needs to be about the right loudness, and suitable for the enclosure size.
HiVi M5a 5" Aluminum/Magnesium Midbass
There's a newer M5N too.
You could look at some SEAS 5" metal units too. Troels has done this stuff IIRC, at least with Excel units.
H1141-08 L15RLY/P
I've a feeling Dayton do something too.
Notching is just usually a question of putting a resistor and capacitor across the bass coil. Called a tank. Works around 7kHz. Thinking about it, I don't suppose a replacement bass is too hard. Just needs to be about the right loudness, and suitable for the enclosure size.
All looks good fun to me.
I'd even consider some polycones:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
I do worry what sort of limitations that baffle is going to cause though. Looks kinda molded for particular drivers.
Serious assessment in order when you get home. I like this sort of project. It's not as hard as people think. There is plenty of scope to tinker with designs. I have a huge stock of wirewound resistors that work wonders.
I'd even consider some polycones:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
I do worry what sort of limitations that baffle is going to cause though. Looks kinda molded for particular drivers.
Serious assessment in order when you get home. I like this sort of project. It's not as hard as people think. There is plenty of scope to tinker with designs. I have a huge stock of wirewound resistors that work wonders.
Hi,
All is not lost. But significant details would help.
Dimensions (HxWxD): 37" x 9 5/16" x 17"
Driver complement: Plasma Transferred Diamond Hardened 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter
Dual 5 1/4" MagAlloy Monocoque Mid-Range
10" Side-firing High Excursion Woofer
All transducers are Magnetically Shielded
Frequency response: 32Hz-23KHz ±2dB
Crossover frequency: 100Hz and 3.2KHz
Sensitivity: 92dB @ 2.83 Volts/Meter
System impedance: 8 Ohms Nominal
Recommended amp. power: 20 Watts~250 Watts
I'm struggling with the genuine reality of 92dB/W and 8 ohms.
If true, reusing the x/o's in any sense might be difficult.
Measure and report the DCR of the drivers. Are the mids
connected in series or parallel? Sketch out the x/o.
Sketch out the internal stuctures and ~ internal volumes.
Any ports involved ? What sizes ?
What type of amp will be driving them ?
AV ? with possible filtering ? Bi amping ?
How does the speaker dissasemble ?
Are the mids and reble built into one chassis ?
Lots of pictures would be a good idea ...
rgds, sreten.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ce-acoustic-research-hi-res-ar9-speakers.html
Needless to say you won't be able to rebuild them for less than the $100 (!?) he apparently paid for them.
All is not lost. But significant details would help.
Dimensions (HxWxD): 37" x 9 5/16" x 17"
Driver complement: Plasma Transferred Diamond Hardened 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter
Dual 5 1/4" MagAlloy Monocoque Mid-Range
10" Side-firing High Excursion Woofer
All transducers are Magnetically Shielded
Frequency response: 32Hz-23KHz ±2dB
Crossover frequency: 100Hz and 3.2KHz
Sensitivity: 92dB @ 2.83 Volts/Meter
System impedance: 8 Ohms Nominal
Recommended amp. power: 20 Watts~250 Watts
I'm struggling with the genuine reality of 92dB/W and 8 ohms.
If true, reusing the x/o's in any sense might be difficult.
Measure and report the DCR of the drivers. Are the mids
connected in series or parallel? Sketch out the x/o.
Sketch out the internal stuctures and ~ internal volumes.
Any ports involved ? What sizes ?
What type of amp will be driving them ?
AV ? with possible filtering ? Bi amping ?
How does the speaker dissasemble ?
Are the mids and reble built into one chassis ?
Lots of pictures would be a good idea ...
rgds, sreten.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ce-acoustic-research-hi-res-ar9-speakers.html
Needless to say you won't be able to rebuild them for less than the $100 (!?) he apparently paid for them.
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