I won't get into specifics here, because it doesn't really seem to matter. I popped new drivers into a cabinet w/o consideration for either driver (mid bass/tweeter). Chose a 2 way crossover. Have been working with placement, but you know what? I wouldn't do it that way again. I wouldn't know where to start about me wondering WTF I was thinking to begin with.
Before you spend bucks on what looks good, research will be your friend.
Before you spend bucks on what looks good, research will be your friend.
I've measured both of the Seas mid drivers and they each measure 3.8 Ohms
The Troels design is a nice idea, but the cost of the kit is extreme. £1675 + the wood and I'd still need to get a skilled woodworker to build the cabs to a std. that I would be happy with.
A shame that you can't just buy the plans and DIY as you see fit, I wouldn't use the Jantzen resistors or caps and would get the drivers from Falcon in the UK
I'd like to understand the process rather than just blindly copy a set of instructions
This suggests you are ok with the snell cabinets.
Willy's hifi has or did have some seas drivers that at least work in a reflex cab.
Your drivers measure 3.8 ohm so you will need to check that if you buy new seas drivers that fit the existing cutout.
Any tweaking of Xover will depend on how well they sound to you.
Willy's hifi has or did have some seas drivers that at least work in a reflex cab.
Your drivers measure 3.8 ohm so you will need to check that if you buy new seas drivers that fit the existing cutout.
Any tweaking of Xover will depend on how well they sound to you.
Imho he has missed almost everything, just to profit a cab that has no value but weigth of wood without the thinking around and the filter, aka he missed everything, lol !
https://speakerrepairshop.nl/en/foam-surrounds/by-size/up-to-8-inch/g-20000036
And buy some new wood for the SBAcoustics not to waste this one also !
Clearer ?
https://speakerrepairshop.nl/en/foam-surrounds/by-size/up-to-8-inch/g-20000036
And buy some new wood for the SBAcoustics not to waste this one also !
Clearer ?
@diyiggy, I'm not going to listen to you, if you can't explain your reasoning
There is nothing magical about the Snell filters, they are a completely standard design for a 2 way speaker with a sensible roll off at 2k25Hz. AN only ever mildly tweaked the value of the tweeter series resistor and the cap on the bass driver. As far as I can tell the only 'in field' adjustable item was the 4R tweeter series resistor, and they all seem to be set to something between 3R8 and 4R2 - not a massive change.
If a filter change is needed then what do you propose? A higher crossover freq to take advantage of the Satori driver's improved response to 3kHz? Perhaps a different roll-off? How many dB/Octave do you think would be suitable?
There is nothing magical about the Snell filters, they are a completely standard design for a 2 way speaker with a sensible roll off at 2k25Hz. AN only ever mildly tweaked the value of the tweeter series resistor and the cap on the bass driver. As far as I can tell the only 'in field' adjustable item was the 4R tweeter series resistor, and they all seem to be set to something between 3R8 and 4R2 - not a massive change.
If a filter change is needed then what do you propose? A higher crossover freq to take advantage of the Satori driver's improved response to 3kHz? Perhaps a different roll-off? How many dB/Octave do you think would be suitable?
I believe the #19 post is what I do in your shoes. I am really not sure the same filter should be used, but no arm to try it.
The D27 is said to sound good but is not going down easily iirc. Snell certainly already crossed over the lowest it could handle. Going high with the Satori ask to figth the break ups when crossed that high. Stiffier cone, more break-ups. Also the deepness of the cone is not the same, so using the same crossover is a big (too much?) trade off. It could be so-so at the end and not as easy than a drop replacement and resistor attenuation.
Maybe thanks to more sensivity with the Satori you could manage the low pass with a coil and a simple zobel at the price of loosing average sensivity?
IMHO the Satori desearves a new design anf if a two ways I 'd add a wave-guide to the tweeter for a better match with the size of the Satori if you already purchased the driver. But that's also true doing a new cab is painfull too.
At the end I fear you waste the cab to going nowhere and I am indeed sensible to the vintage loudspeakers. But ok it is a free world.
Just my point of view and 2 cents, YMMV, but as you asked...
The D27 is said to sound good but is not going down easily iirc. Snell certainly already crossed over the lowest it could handle. Going high with the Satori ask to figth the break ups when crossed that high. Stiffier cone, more break-ups. Also the deepness of the cone is not the same, so using the same crossover is a big (too much?) trade off. It could be so-so at the end and not as easy than a drop replacement and resistor attenuation.
Maybe thanks to more sensivity with the Satori you could manage the low pass with a coil and a simple zobel at the price of loosing average sensivity?
IMHO the Satori desearves a new design anf if a two ways I 'd add a wave-guide to the tweeter for a better match with the size of the Satori if you already purchased the driver. But that's also true doing a new cab is painfull too.
At the end I fear you waste the cab to going nowhere and I am indeed sensible to the vintage loudspeakers. But ok it is a free world.
Just my point of view and 2 cents, YMMV, but as you asked...
Many thanks, the problem that I have with post #19 is it's a £2k spend for a kit of parts - a lot of which I don't want.
I could sell the Satori drivers (which I have anyway) for maybe £200 and the Snell J's for ~£650. That money would likely be needed for the carpenter to build the cabs, and I would have learned nothing.
I like the size / shape of the Snell J in my listening room - The crossovers have been refreshed with K73-16 Caps and Mills 12W resistors (the original lytic caps had values all over the place - I still have them).
I'm not going to cut into the Snell cabs, this is just an experiment to see if better performance can be achieved from a modern mid/bass driver without paying through the nose for the AN 'blue hemp' items.
I've already rebuilt the tweeters following the advice on this forum - they sound beautiful
Setting the tweeter back (physically) and using a waveguide would be a very nice option, but at that point I really would be designing a new speaker
- although I could use some stick on felt, as Stirling/ Falcon do on their LS3/5a.. just (another) thought 🙂
I could sell the Satori drivers (which I have anyway) for maybe £200 and the Snell J's for ~£650. That money would likely be needed for the carpenter to build the cabs, and I would have learned nothing.
I like the size / shape of the Snell J in my listening room - The crossovers have been refreshed with K73-16 Caps and Mills 12W resistors (the original lytic caps had values all over the place - I still have them).
I'm not going to cut into the Snell cabs, this is just an experiment to see if better performance can be achieved from a modern mid/bass driver without paying through the nose for the AN 'blue hemp' items.
I've already rebuilt the tweeters following the advice on this forum - they sound beautiful
Setting the tweeter back (physically) and using a waveguide would be a very nice option, but at that point I really would be designing a new speaker
- although I could use some stick on felt, as Stirling/ Falcon do on their LS3/5a.. just (another) thought 🙂
Large cabinets image well. I like the K73-16, a mkt that is good whatever in serie with the input of the drivers, however I thinks the MILL are very colored towards the low life mellow for my linkings. I know they are advised everywhere, but even a wirewound cement is better imho. I use those day for cheap some Panasonic radial black MKP caps, cheap and neutral, I mix them with others caps with less uF when clarity is needed : Solen tin foil + Solen silver 0.1 uF. I finally do not like the Clarity cap CSA. Any mkp or MKT are ok if precise value is needed in // (low pass, zobel, LCR).
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
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Is this not how it was done with the Snell K crossovers? Are you in agreement that 3KHz is a sensible frequency, 3250, 3500?
Building new crossovers is entirely possible, especially if parts can be removed / designs simplified
I don't know if the resistor is genuine. I don't understand the second question, for me all is sensible above the room resonance so almost of the time above a hundred pair of hz till 15khz if you are talking about spl magnitude. The hard thing is the good designers seems to take care of the off axis too. That's why it is often much than difficult to do better than experienced guys whatever the drivers (there is a chance not to do better). A good speaker with simple drivers sounds good if disco spl is not a targett (disto) in the hands of good designers enough (imho as being myself in the noobs camp, this what I see when I put my hands into speakers I refurbish for others or myself... equilibrium is subtile and thos guys know).
If you measure in room you will have help I think, story to avoid the biggest issues. But you already know that. If you validated the woofer already, Go ahead with the measurements of the drivers in one of the cabinet w/o filter. 🙂
If you measure in room you will have help I think, story to avoid the biggest issues. But you already know that. If you validated the woofer already, Go ahead with the measurements of the drivers in one of the cabinet w/o filter. 🙂
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I've been doing some more research and I can't see why the Satori driver wouldn't work with a 2LR filter at 3300Hz. The correct inductor value is already there, I'd just need to change the capacitor from 13.6uF to 6uF. Looking at the impedance curve on the datasheet I don't see what good an additional ZoBel across the Satori driver would do. Please explain if I'm wrong.
If I wanted to help the time alignment then I would have to add a 1" MDF slab to the baffe for the midbass driver (I'm not going to do that).
What's the purpose of the additional 2.2mH inductor on the original LF crossover? Is it some variation on an LR4? Seems odd.
Thanks
If I wanted to help the time alignment then I would have to add a 1" MDF slab to the baffe for the midbass driver (I'm not going to do that).
What's the purpose of the additional 2.2mH inductor on the original LF crossover? Is it some variation on an LR4? Seems odd.
Thanks
I don't think it is an additional Inductor, i see it more as making the 2nd ore=der xover i.e the combination of the 2.2mH and the 13uf is a 2nd order Xover. At the same time the inductance of the 2.2mH will be reducing the diffraction loss to give you a flattish response without that level of inductance it they will tend to sound bass light to most people.
Play with the inductore value and observe the frequency response in your Xsim model. Then do the same for the next elementof paralle LCR what does it do to the response as you play with valiues, and what happens if you completely remove it?
Play with the inductore value and observe the frequency response in your Xsim model. Then do the same for the next elementof paralle LCR what does it do to the response as you play with valiues, and what happens if you completely remove it?
If you swap the 2.2 mH and the 13 uF of the circuitry, where the additional serie LCR is notching the frequency ?
Could be to flat the high end indeed of the woofer band to make the magnitude flater but could also be simply a ffrequency peak to tame whatever it come from, floor bounce, cabinet, driver itself ?
Could be to flat the high end indeed of the woofer band to make the magnitude flater but could also be simply a ffrequency peak to tame whatever it come from, floor bounce, cabinet, driver itself ?