A couple of threads ago, I complained about my adire audio DPL 12 woofer which was making strange noises. After relocating the speaker, things got WAY better. However, it stil made a little bit of noise. Add the midranges and the tweeters, and it is almost completeley masked. Almost...
This weekend I hooked it up to a friends 2x250W RMS carver amp. Sounded like **** to him, and I had to agree it wasn't quite all that. So I took a knife and cut off the dustcap (yes, pure loudspeaker horror). There is a plastic-ish disc under the dustcap, which is glued to the cone. Apparently the manufacturer didn't use enough glue. If the cone moves backward, there is some pressure under this disc (a pole vent helps, but doesn't get rid of all the pressure), so if there is an opening between the disc and the cone, the air can move from under the disc to under the dustcap. Since the dustcap is just paper, it starts deforming/rattling/etcetera. Without the dustcap, it makes a lot less noise, and I think after glueing it properly, it won't make any noise at all. I'll glue it next week, when I have both the patience and the right glue...
I attached a picture with the 'evidence'. Since this is a manufacturing problem, the speaker should be under warranty. I won't go through the trouble of sending it back to the US, I'll just ask Adire to send me a new dustcap. I think they'll agree, since this is less expensive for them, and saves a lot of time.
This weekend I hooked it up to a friends 2x250W RMS carver amp. Sounded like **** to him, and I had to agree it wasn't quite all that. So I took a knife and cut off the dustcap (yes, pure loudspeaker horror). There is a plastic-ish disc under the dustcap, which is glued to the cone. Apparently the manufacturer didn't use enough glue. If the cone moves backward, there is some pressure under this disc (a pole vent helps, but doesn't get rid of all the pressure), so if there is an opening between the disc and the cone, the air can move from under the disc to under the dustcap. Since the dustcap is just paper, it starts deforming/rattling/etcetera. Without the dustcap, it makes a lot less noise, and I think after glueing it properly, it won't make any noise at all. I'll glue it next week, when I have both the patience and the right glue...
I attached a picture with the 'evidence'. Since this is a manufacturing problem, the speaker should be under warranty. I won't go through the trouble of sending it back to the US, I'll just ask Adire to send me a new dustcap. I think they'll agree, since this is less expensive for them, and saves a lot of time.
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I agree! I'd much rather one of your speakers!
No offence bill, but cool it, adire is agood company that makes good speakers at killer problems, theyre allowed to make mistakes.
On a side note I heard about this problem once on a brahma, I believe adire sorted it out in short order.
No offence bill, but cool it, adire is agood company that makes good speakers at killer problems, theyre allowed to make mistakes.
On a side note I heard about this problem once on a brahma, I believe adire sorted it out in short order.
Everyone makes mistakes, considering how many drivers adire sells, I'd say they're at the edge of accceptable, Im sure they'll get their act together soon.
Since this argument is going no where I'm going to metaphorically walk away. Have the last word if you must.
Im happy that you figured out what was wrong otter, and if I recall correctly the second dust cap is only for aesthetics, and I cant imagine the loss of a cosmetic dustcap affecting its Fs much.
**In my previous post that was supposed to be prices not problems! sorry.
Since this argument is going no where I'm going to metaphorically walk away. Have the last word if you must.
Im happy that you figured out what was wrong otter, and if I recall correctly the second dust cap is only for aesthetics, and I cant imagine the loss of a cosmetic dustcap affecting its Fs much.
**In my previous post that was supposed to be prices not problems! sorry.
As long as you're at it, why not, if only for your own education, correct the rest of the mistakes in your sentence?
i think they get all their drivers from their supplier sealed in boxes and, never bother to even open them and inspect them so, i don't think QC even exists with that little hole in the wall co. fine way to run a buisness huh? yes, i've got a bone i'm picking with them right now, over a dpl and, if the matter is not taken care of soon, there will be all kinds of complaints and info. i will post on every forum possible! among other legal actions that will be taken . by now, you know who i am DAN WIGGINS. crippledchickenBill Fitzpatrick said:
😡
Otter,
Contact warranty (at) adireaudio (dot) com with your request/problem and they'll take care of you. Sounds like the mass load disc (how we get the low Fs with that driver) didn't get glue all the way around.
Bill,
Show me a company that's never had a shipped driver fail and I'll show you a company that's never shipped drivers. I guess having one out of 400 drivers fail is a sign of ****, huh? DPL12s were built by Eminence, they're known for quality builds, but I guess since this one failed every Eminence product must be **** too, eh?
FWIW, every driver is inspected and fully buzz and rub tested. This isn't a problem that would manifest itself in a buzz and rub test - only when mounted in a pressurized box. NO ONE does full pressure tests of all drivers.
Crippled,
I haven't a clue who you are - I don't memorize screen names. If you have a problem, e-mail our tech support group at techsupport (at) adireaudio (dot) com. If you want to contact me, e-mail me at dan (at) adireaudio (dot) com. I'd suggest dropping the attitude, though.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
Contact warranty (at) adireaudio (dot) com with your request/problem and they'll take care of you. Sounds like the mass load disc (how we get the low Fs with that driver) didn't get glue all the way around.
Bill,
Show me a company that's never had a shipped driver fail and I'll show you a company that's never shipped drivers. I guess having one out of 400 drivers fail is a sign of ****, huh? DPL12s were built by Eminence, they're known for quality builds, but I guess since this one failed every Eminence product must be **** too, eh?
FWIW, every driver is inspected and fully buzz and rub tested. This isn't a problem that would manifest itself in a buzz and rub test - only when mounted in a pressurized box. NO ONE does full pressure tests of all drivers.
Crippled,
I haven't a clue who you are - I don't memorize screen names. If you have a problem, e-mail our tech support group at techsupport (at) adireaudio (dot) com. If you want to contact me, e-mail me at dan (at) adireaudio (dot) com. I'd suggest dropping the attitude, though.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
It's sad to see members of this forum behaving badly.
Here's a list of Adire products I've purchased.
AV5 - one pair
AV8 - 3 pair
Shiva - 2
Tempest - 2
DPL12 - 2
WR125S (Adire design) 20
WR125ST (Adire design) 4
AVA-250 amp - 1
Extremis 6.8 - one pair
Not one of these items has suffered from a manufacturing defect and anytime I have a question I get prompt and polite responses.
Here's a list of Adire products I've purchased.
AV5 - one pair
AV8 - 3 pair
Shiva - 2
Tempest - 2
DPL12 - 2
WR125S (Adire design) 20
WR125ST (Adire design) 4
AVA-250 amp - 1
Extremis 6.8 - one pair
Not one of these items has suffered from a manufacturing defect and anytime I have a question I get prompt and polite responses.
I remember a Precision Devices 24" driver firing its cone right out of the basket on first test once. We blamed it on the dodgy drum and bass the tech was using. 🙂
This stuff happens folks, no QA system in existence can stop it. It's what happens afterwards with support that matters.
Would I still recommend PD drivers? You bet...
This stuff happens folks, no QA system in existence can stop it. It's what happens afterwards with support that matters.
Would I still recommend PD drivers? You bet...
When a company gets rather large, its not possible for the orginator to build and check every single woofer, so blaming Dan is not the issue.
Once you go from making 10 speakers a day to 100 and you hire new people, you will have small errors creep into the product.
Having staff that know how to assemble quickly and correctly is a rare thing.
I dont even think Dan would have time to make assemble his woofers now?
1 out of 400 is nothing to be worried about, reclaim the unit and send them a new one or upgrade them for free 🙂
Its best not to have sour grapes as it ruins the taste of the bunch.
Once you go from making 10 speakers a day to 100 and you hire new people, you will have small errors creep into the product.
Having staff that know how to assemble quickly and correctly is a rare thing.
I dont even think Dan would have time to make assemble his woofers now?
1 out of 400 is nothing to be worried about, reclaim the unit and send them a new one or upgrade them for free 🙂
Its best not to have sour grapes as it ruins the taste of the bunch.
Guys, guys, guys... Stop fighting please. I only wanted to mention that a badly glued disc can cause noise, although the woofer looks intact, so people would know this kind of problem exists and pay attention to it if they experience something similar.
I agree with Dan Wiggins that a bad product causes much more of a buzz than a good product. I'm sure Adire sells lots of woofers without problems and if there are problems, the woofers get replaced at Adire's cost. I remember buying a SPH-300TC driver from Monacor for €98 (133 US $), this woofer was a HiFi subwoofer according to the product folder. It literally fell apart after 5 minutes of 4mm open air excursion (Xmax = 4 mm). The surround was glued with some kind of silicone (it wasn't even glue), the dustcap seemed to be something self-adhesive. I never even bothered for warranty, since there was no abnormal production fault - all these woofers were ****.
Conclusion: Adire woofers are qualitative devices for reasonable prices, and yes, sometimes there is an occasional problem. But at least Adire corrects their problems. A lot of European companies wouldn't do that (Yes, I'm from Europe). Am I still satisfied with this woofer? Yes.
I agree with Dan Wiggins that a bad product causes much more of a buzz than a good product. I'm sure Adire sells lots of woofers without problems and if there are problems, the woofers get replaced at Adire's cost. I remember buying a SPH-300TC driver from Monacor for €98 (133 US $), this woofer was a HiFi subwoofer according to the product folder. It literally fell apart after 5 minutes of 4mm open air excursion (Xmax = 4 mm). The surround was glued with some kind of silicone (it wasn't even glue), the dustcap seemed to be something self-adhesive. I never even bothered for warranty, since there was no abnormal production fault - all these woofers were ****.
Conclusion: Adire woofers are qualitative devices for reasonable prices, and yes, sometimes there is an occasional problem. But at least Adire corrects their problems. A lot of European companies wouldn't do that (Yes, I'm from Europe). Am I still satisfied with this woofer? Yes.
hell, who's fighting? i just don't appreaciate calling to order a shiva and the person from sales says we have no more and, i have no idea when we will? he then proceeds to tell me about the dpl being almost the same thing as the shiva except, goes lower in frequency. the problem is, he failed to tell me about the sensitivity difference between the two and yes, it does make a difference no matter how any box modeling turns out with any program. like the old saying in electronics goes, what looks good on paper, doesn't always work in the real world. now let me explain, my daughters husband bought a shiva awhile back off ebay and, built the same 142.5L EBS enclosure and, exact same amp i have with my 142.5L box. ok , he brought his to my small mobile home yes, small. well we hooked his up with the shiva and, it blew my dpl out of the water. what next? another test we put my 300-804 amp like his in his enclosure and it still, blew the dpl away, in the real world. before i got crippled up, i spent 20 years in new home construction, and 10 years building custom cabinets so, i can assure you the enclosures are built to specs. so, i now have a dpl reboxed and ready for sale for a great loss i'm sure. i'll have to wait another year before i'll have the funds again for another driver but, since i couldn't even get the dpl swapped for a shiva not refund! just swap! i will be going with the atlas drivers as, lots of people are now. crippledchickenOtter said:
If you used the same placement, same enclosure, same amp, there's only 3 dB difference between the two in efficiency, that's not that huge... it's louder, but I think the DPL12 is less noisy.
crippledchicken said:
I am sorry to hear you had a bad experiance with your speaker,
You are right that what models well and looks good on paper means very little in the real world, but it can help understand some of the properties of a designs in a raw basic manner, all the paper work in the world will not make something you enjoy and thats what we all want, but we all like different things.
This is why i say its so important to listen to what you buy instead of listening to reviews and others ears.
Nobody in Home audio would ever pay good money on speakers based on a review without listening to them first.
The demo stage does the selling, i worked in the home audio industry in Scotland for almost 10 years and i know some speakers sell themselfs, but what sounds good in one place may not sound good in another place.
The meaningful demostration needs to be in the final location with well match partnering equipment, this is problems in most systems, be they home or car.
I am sure you have built a very high quality and solid enclosure, there are so many factors in mating a drive unit to a enclosure, air press and temperature changed change sound quality but if your talking about raw output then sensitivity is a key factor for you.
You have to accept one driver will not be everything rolled into one, you would need a multi variable drive unit set up to have your cake and eat it too.
What is your biggest problem with your driver? have you tried any other enclosures?
simon5 said:
You must be kidding? 3 dB is a very big difference if your ears are sensitive.
3 dB is like what? 20% louder to our ears? Probably less?
The difference is only in the upper bass. Down at 20 Hz it's the same loudness. 40 Hz Shiva is 2 dB louder. Big difference is at 100 Hz where the Shiva is 5 dB louder, but a subwoofer should be crossed over lower.
The Shiva match better with the room gain curve, that's something that the DPL12 doesn't show in the same enclosure.
The DPL12 will still achieve over 110 dB everywhere in the passband in-room, not so bad, it's also cheaper and can go lower.
The difference is only in the upper bass. Down at 20 Hz it's the same loudness. 40 Hz Shiva is 2 dB louder. Big difference is at 100 Hz where the Shiva is 5 dB louder, but a subwoofer should be crossed over lower.
The Shiva match better with the room gain curve, that's something that the DPL12 doesn't show in the same enclosure.
The DPL12 will still achieve over 110 dB everywhere in the passband in-room, not so bad, it's also cheaper and can go lower.
Did I seriously just see someone threaten legal action over a $100 subwoofer that is admittedly not defective, but rather not performing to expectations? 🙄
Yep. Turns out we were e-mailed by crippledchicken after the close of business on Friday about his problem, and evidently because we didn't answer on the weekend (we do take weekends off) we were also drug through the mud... Never mind our tech support team answered before Noon today.morbo said:
Welcome to the world of sales... Damned if you do, damned if you don't... But blackmail and legal threats don't go very far to resolving a problem in a calm and quick manner.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
Paradise_Ice said:
well, what are we getting ready to do here morbo? sounds like your wanting to bash me if i didn't know better! not a good idea as, i have not provoked you, or pulled your chain. paradise-ice, if i remember right, it seems to me, that i read somewhere that to get 3db more output, you have to double the input? and to get twice as loud, requires ten times the power? i'll do some more research. i'm trying to keep my composure here on this forum but, when your dying from cancer, it gets pretty hard sometimes. it's probably best i leave this forum soon. thanks for your inputmorbo said:
🙂
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