If you want to have best possible SQ (from what is possible), you could consider using some small monoblocks as close to the speaker as possible.
Signal wire has more options to be managed for long distances…
(Or go wireless and live with its own theoretical drawbacks)
Signal wire has more options to be managed for long distances…
(Or go wireless and live with its own theoretical drawbacks)
OK, I assume that since you're still not giving us a name or model number, you either don't know what they are or you don't want to tell us for some reason, which is a shame. Let me take a shot in the dark here: it wouldn't happen to be the SS-CS5 would it? The 'one woofer, tweeter, piezo' sounds consistent with that.
The SS-CS5 isn't a particularly great speaker, but we are where we are, so we'll go with it. The 3ohm nominal rated impedance is a bit low, but as I recall that model actually averages about 5ohm - 6ohms over the majority of its bandwidth, only dipping to 3ohms in the upper bass, and the electrical phase angles aren't especially severe, so whatever its other limits, it's not a particularly difficult load. 16ga annealed copper wire has about 0.35 - 0.4ohms resistance over a 50ft run (100ft loop length), which is roughly equivalent to about 1.1dB loss into a 3ohm load with a fairly typical voltage source amplifier and less into higher impedances of course, where the speaker (if it happens to be that model) in fact is for most of its bandwidth. 14ga annealed copper wire has about 0.2 - 0.25ohms resistance over the same length, with about 0.7dB loss into a 3ohm load, and again, rather less into higher impedances. Assuming perfectly pair-matched & set up speakers, and you firmly in the optimum listening position, then on some material you might just about hear a very slight difference in the upper bass where it happens to drop to about 3ohms if you used 16ga wire on both channels, but I have significant doubts.
With different gauges, I suspect it's even less likely. 6.5ft loop length of 16ga on one channel should be about 0.02ohms of series R, or about 0.05dB loss into 3ohms (worst case). 100ft loop length of 14ga wire on the other will give the 0.2 - 0.25ohms series R on that one as mentioned above, & about 0.7dB losses into 3ohms, for a 0.65dB maximum difference between channels from the different resistances. That means you're within the widely accepted 1dB audibility threshold across that narrow, worst-case bandwidth, even assuming that the speakers are perfectly matched & you're always perfectly positioned. You'd likely get more difference moving your head by about 3 inches.
So no. In this case [please note caveat!] I would call the wire lengths relatively unimportant as far as resistance is concerned, and the added inductance from some sensibly designed shotgun configured speaker wire like the Amazon basics isn't likely to be high enough to make an audible difference unless you're a bat-eared teenage girl, and even then probably not. Transparent often put some mild series inductance into their speaker wires as a matter of course, albeit with a Zobel, then charge up to $70,000 for it. 😉 Capacitance should for practical purposes be off the radar, even with that relatively long run, so no real concerns there. The longer length may act as an antenna, so there's the risk of picking up some taxis or other RFI, but that's a separate issue & usually not a major problem.
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If you use the same length wire for both speakers, suggest you avoid coiling the wire to the near speaker, coiling it will create inductance.
Scottmoose regarding the speakers I had made some changes in it so giving model doesn't work so I have share ohms which is imp
I was thinking of the possibility to send the audiosignal wirelessly to the power-amp, which still would be close to the speakers.
It is, AFAIK, still not possible/reasonable to send the speaker‘s signal through the air…
I'm not surprised about the former, 😉 it shouldn't significantly affect the latter other than that you should assume the worst-case 3ohm scenario (which is mostly a non-issue anyway) as the default. In other words, there will be roughly a 0.65dB channel imbalance for the conditions you specify due to the difference in loop resistance between them. 1dB is generally considered to be the audibility threshold under well-controlled conditions, with tightly-matched, low-distortion speakers, well set up, with the listener optimally sited, so although on paper this isn't ideal, in practice it's likely to be a non-issue except potentially in the conditions mentioned -and even then, it's unlikely to be anything more than 'minor'.
Bottom line: if these are another set of cheap mini-system (or similar) speakers into which you've dropped some cheap, spec-less units bought off aliexpress more or less at random, then the actual performance and consistency between channels is likely to be pretty poor to start with, especially if the speakers are rammed into corners, and roughly half a decibel of difference between channels over some portion of the bandwidth due to some relatively minor differences in wire resistance will be the least of the issues.
As a general suggestion though, and in genuine good-spirit: if you start a thread asking questions (always welcome! 🙂 ) please do try give people complete information to begin with, so they know exactly what is going on, and don't get blindsided by some later revelations. 😉
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!n open wire the signal travels at One English foot per nanosecond.
In coax depends on the form of insulation used, in RG8 & RG58 the velocity of the signal is ~8 inched per nanosecond.
If the insulation (dielectric) is foamed, about 10 inches per nanosecond.
All most probably to fast for audiophiles to worry about. 🙂
In coax depends on the form of insulation used, in RG8 & RG58 the velocity of the signal is ~8 inched per nanosecond.
If the insulation (dielectric) is foamed, about 10 inches per nanosecond.
All most probably to fast for audiophiles to worry about. 🙂
nothing from AliExpress but some branded speakers.
My primary goal is to achieve a wide coverage area using bookshelf speakers that emphasize front throw. Placing them at the ends seems beneficial for comprehensive coverage, while positioning them opposite to me might direct sound primarily at faces rather than filling the entire space.
'Branded speakers' that you still haven't named, nor said how you implemented them. 😉 See what I mean? My crystal ball is broken, and I was never much good at divination or mind-reading.
Be that as it may -unless they are quality items and the change was competently done, it doesn't really make any difference to what I said above. Since inductance & capacitance are unlikely to be audible with that wire & those run-lengths, all you're really left with is resistance. Which in most cases is the dominant factor in speaker leads anyway. So: worst case scenario assuming perfectly matched speakers is that you will have a channel imbalance of about 0.65dB due to extra wire resistance over those portions of the speaker's bandwidth that dip to 3ohms, and less than that over the portions of its bandwidth where it's higher than 3ohms. There will also be a small reduction in bass damping on that one channel with the longer wire run, but since your space is presumably mildly asymmetric and the speakers not perfectly matched anyway (very few of us have perfectly symmetrical rooms or perfectly matched drivers) this will probably be swamped by external effects.
Now keep in mind that the audibility threshold under ideal conditons, with quality hardware, is generally considered to be 1dB. Serious question: what does that tell you?
Be that as it may -unless they are quality items and the change was competently done, it doesn't really make any difference to what I said above. Since inductance & capacitance are unlikely to be audible with that wire & those run-lengths, all you're really left with is resistance. Which in most cases is the dominant factor in speaker leads anyway. So: worst case scenario assuming perfectly matched speakers is that you will have a channel imbalance of about 0.65dB due to extra wire resistance over those portions of the speaker's bandwidth that dip to 3ohms, and less than that over the portions of its bandwidth where it's higher than 3ohms. There will also be a small reduction in bass damping on that one channel with the longer wire run, but since your space is presumably mildly asymmetric and the speakers not perfectly matched anyway (very few of us have perfectly symmetrical rooms or perfectly matched drivers) this will probably be swamped by external effects.
Now keep in mind that the audibility threshold under ideal conditons, with quality hardware, is generally considered to be 1dB. Serious question: what does that tell you?
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That's an interesting point about the audibility threshold. In my experience, while technically accurate, the impact on the overall listening experience might vary based on personal preferences and the specific setup. Sometimes subtle changes can still contribute to a more enjoyable sound for certain listeners.
I think they are aiwa woofers
And regarding woofers i think they are aiwa woofers
OK, just so I (we all) have this clear, you:
- Had a pair of Sony branded, vented loudspeakers
- You have replaced the bass drivers with others that you think are made by Aiwa, but aren't sure. Without meaning any offense, I'm going to guess at this point that you didn't check their low-frequency data to see whether they're actually going to have a good alignment in that enclosure, or whether their frequency and [frequency varying] impedance responses will match up to whatever crossover is present (or not as the case may be: we don't currently know, because you haven't told us)
- You may (or again, may not for all we know) have changed the other drivers and any filtering present for other unknown, random types also.
The installation of the new Aiwa speakers closely mirrored the original setup. What's most impressive is the noticeable enhancement in sound quality compared to the originals. Regarding the crossover, it's elegantly straightforward—a board featuring a 3.3uf capacitor for the tweeter, a resistor, and a coil for the woofer.
Regarding wire length i will check if i see imbalance between channel I will try to buy one more or cut the existing length 50/2
So 25ft per pair
Thanks a lot scotmoose for your detailed insights and assistance. Really appreciated!" It's a personal touch that shows your gratitude for their individual contribution.
Regarding wire length i will check if i see imbalance between channel I will try to buy one more or cut the existing length 50/2
So 25ft per pair
Thanks a lot scotmoose for your detailed insights and assistance. Really appreciated!" It's a personal touch that shows your gratitude for their individual contribution.
Coiling a single conductor wire would have a negative effect as it would add inductance.
Coiling a twin conductor cable would create a common mode choke that has inductance only for common mode signals i.e. for signal currents that flow in the same direction in the pair of conductors.
A coiled loudspeaker cable carries normal mode (differential) signals i.e. currents that flow in opposite directions. These currents produce cancelling magnetic fields, and hence no added inductance.
@Kamranbits - set you installation tentatively in a mono mode : do you hear any significant difference between L and R speakers ?
I mean : notable imbalance in tone or level ?
If yes, maybe the longest cable is the issue by its smaller section (resistance, induxtance leaks...), but if no significant difference can be heard : then it works, don't fix ! 😉
T
I mean : notable imbalance in tone or level ?
If yes, maybe the longest cable is the issue by its smaller section (resistance, induxtance leaks...), but if no significant difference can be heard : then it works, don't fix ! 😉
T
1000 ft #10 AWG Copper Wire at NTP has a resistance of One Ohm. Something worth remembering.👍
And a change of one wire size changes the resistance of a length of wire by ( 2 )^ ( 1 / 3 )........3rd root of 2...................~1.25
So 50 feet of #14 AWG copper wire at NTP has a resistance of ( 50 / 1000 ) * ( 1.25 ) * ( 2 )..............................................~125 mR
Wire conductance (G) decreases by 50% for each three wires up (i.e 10/13). Conversely the resistance (R) doubles.
So 1000ft #16 AWG Copper Wire at NTP has a resistance of 4R.
And One meter of #16 wire at NTP has a resistance on ( 3 / 1000 ) * ( 39.37 / 36 ) ....................................~3,38 mR
Common loudspeakers have voice coil resistance of somewhat less than their working spec, for example if the spec is 8Z,
the VC resistance when measured at DC will be 6-7 R. If we believe in Kirchhoff's Laws, the cable will be in series with the speaker.
And the cable resistance is swamped by the effect of the speaker resistance.
Some people will argue that skin effect will cause problems at 10 KHz,
But that factor is still a small DC part (not Impedance) of the series circuit.
Less of the cross section of the copper is used to carry current.
During my time in a research lab we actually measured the characteristics of a length
of #18 AWG lamp cord used as speaker wire. For that we used a Time Domain Reflectometer (HP 1415A).👍
As expected it was very lossy at RF, but otherwise OK. I don't recall what the
Characteristic Impedance of the lamp cord was now, that was 60 yrs ago.
All the imagination & arguments against simple speaker cable can be resolved by double blind testing.🙂
Attachments
You'll have no doubt if you measure the response at the speaker terminals after the wire. Simply look for a non flat response.
Magic. When things that can be explained are talked about before they're explained, people begin to think that any change will sound different.