Thank you for sharing the information. Now, I understand the definition of transient response i.e. A transient is a sudden change in signal amplitude, experienced in fast transitions from quiet to loud. In a speaker system, the transient response describes a speaker's ability to tightly control its cone motion. The cone will start and stop quickly to match the input signal with a minimal amount of distortion and time smearing.
That means speaker with good transient response will be able to produce low distortion sound with higher impulse or dynamic sound.
Let me be the first to stick my neck out. Yes, it does. I will step out on another limb: transient response is even more related to lightweight dynamic drivers/ diaphrams. Speakers with a
low Qts are highly damped and are often paired with amps with a low damping factor. Have fun and beware the experts.
low Qts are highly damped and are often paired with amps with a low damping factor. Have fun and beware the experts.
Damping factor is a term used to describe the output impedance of an amplifier
Qts is a term used to describe the shape of the low frequency "knee" in the response of a driver.
You are not using the correct term in your question. Maybe you meant "more damping" (electrical, mechanical)?
Damping or dissipation (as opposed to storage) of energy is embodied in the Q factor, e.g. Qts for the driver by itself. The driver has both a mechanical Q and an electrical Q so changes to one or both of these will influence Qts.
Also, what is "good transient response"? That could mean anything...
Qts is a term used to describe the shape of the low frequency "knee" in the response of a driver.
You are not using the correct term in your question. Maybe you meant "more damping" (electrical, mechanical)?
Damping or dissipation (as opposed to storage) of energy is embodied in the Q factor, e.g. Qts for the driver by itself. The driver has both a mechanical Q and an electrical Q so changes to one or both of these will influence Qts.
Also, what is "good transient response"? That could mean anything...
It depends on the Q of the driver.
You seem to be posting some very basic questions, and you might find that reading a good book about loudspeaker design can help you understand things much better. The classic intro read is "The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" by Vance Dickason. You can probably find a copy on the web for free. Even a very old edition would be a great resource for you. I highly recommend that you try and find this short book and read it over and over. That's how many of us got started learning all about loudspeaker and crossover design and construction.
I'm of the opinion that until you've heard a fully horn loaded system (and that means horn loaded woofers & subwoofers if you can do it) then you've not maximized your experience.
Horns bring great dynamics. I don't know any of the accurate facts but they produce a fraction of the distortion that your direct/radiator type bring to the table.
One (major) downside is.... they are big. Really, really big
But, if it's transients and dynamics you're after, then start with something that will brutalize you with transients and dynamics.
Dont you think a "traditional" Speaker in the same size as the horn may give the same experience in dynamics and distortions?
There is a major relationship between cabinet volume (linear), the lower cut off frequency (in the power of 3) and the efficiency - what translates the cabinet size to the major cost factor not only in money but also in terms of dynamics, distortions and efficiency.
With "really, really big" cabinets one can build high efficient speakers with "really, really large" diapragm area - giving small diapragm strokes with reduced nonlinear distortions and enhanced dynamics ... and the transient response in the time domain is MUTCH better.
assuming typical home listening room, below ~200 Hz, the difference between normal use of "Sealed Vs Vented enclosure" is the wrong dichotomy - the real performance is dominated by the room-speaker interactions
where the room modes are, where the speakers are located relative to room nodes/antinodes
multiple subs, located to excite different modes, and equalized over the listening region are the key to better low frequency in acoustically small rooms
where the room modes are, where the speakers are located relative to room nodes/antinodes
multiple subs, located to excite different modes, and equalized over the listening region are the key to better low frequency in acoustically small rooms
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On one side, speaker becomes more efficient at resonance, on the other impedance rises so it pulls lesspower from the amp .... both effects more or less cancel each other so net result is not much change.
That said, if box is poorly designed and Q is too high, you "will" see a peak at effective resonance, which is not free air resonance but higher.
Often the cause of boomy undefined bass in poor enclosures.
In general there is no link between distortion and Qts. This is because Qts, Qms, Qes, etc. are just linear approximations to the near-zero cone displacement behavior of an inherently (eventually) non-linear system. In fact, a system that is characterized only by the Thiele-Small model has absolutely no distortion at all. The T/S parameters only describe what the driver is doing around its resonance, which is only a tiny bit of its passband. There are many sources of distortion in a real driver. This include motor and suspension non-linearities, physical resonances, etc. None of these are captured in or expressed by the Thiele Small parameters.
While some people might try to give you rules of thumb like "lower Qts means a stronger motor and so less distortion" these kinds of heuristics are mostly rubbish.
If you want to know a driver's distortion you either need to find a reputable source (e.g. a DIYer) who has measured the driver and published the results, or you have to measure it yourself!
While some people might try to give you rules of thumb like "lower Qts means a stronger motor and so less distortion" these kinds of heuristics are mostly rubbish.
If you want to know a driver's distortion you either need to find a reputable source (e.g. a DIYer) who has measured the driver and published the results, or you have to measure it yourself!
Yup, agreed with everything Charlie stated.
Imho too much importance is given to non-linear distortion (harmonic in this case). As long as the driver's harmonic distortion isn't huge and predominately lower in order, it's of little importance compared to a speakers linear distortion (frequency response). I think a lot of the fatigue or "bad" sounds that people accociate with cheaper speakers is a mess of a frequency response, and wild driver breakup.
A speakers frequency response is the most valuable parameter to look at. Then depending on your goals you could take sensitivity, polar response, maximum output, and ease of use into consideration. Harmonic distortion is low on the list- at least for me.
If you really look into the importance of HD, you're going to find that "all HD is bad" is over simplistic. Certain types are more audible than others. You can think of % HD as a label of how much disease an animal has, without knowing what type of disease. A full blown case of dry skin is much less of a problem vs a tiny bit of alzheimer's. The same applies on the type of distortion.
Imho too much importance is given to non-linear distortion (harmonic in this case). As long as the driver's harmonic distortion isn't huge and predominately lower in order, it's of little importance compared to a speakers linear distortion (frequency response). I think a lot of the fatigue or "bad" sounds that people accociate with cheaper speakers is a mess of a frequency response, and wild driver breakup.
A speakers frequency response is the most valuable parameter to look at. Then depending on your goals you could take sensitivity, polar response, maximum output, and ease of use into consideration. Harmonic distortion is low on the list- at least for me.
If you really look into the importance of HD, you're going to find that "all HD is bad" is over simplistic. Certain types are more audible than others. You can think of % HD as a label of how much disease an animal has, without knowing what type of disease. A full blown case of dry skin is much less of a problem vs a tiny bit of alzheimer's. The same applies on the type of distortion.
Something I never see talked about is this article on transient response. Long story short is mass doesn't effect it that much, but frequency response and transient response are intimately tied. It makes sense from a philosophical standpoint- if a driver is flat to 20khz, it must be able to react "fast". I think this is the reason that a lot of people tie low mass = faster response or rise time. The heavier a radiator gets, the harder it is to get an extended and smooth FR. So lightweight cones in a roundabout manner can produce a better transient response or impulse/step response, but that is a little bit oversimplistic.
If you want a simple rule of thumb for great impulse/transient/step response, simply choose the driver with the flattest, smoothest, and most importantly most extended frequency response- even if the frequency response is more extended/linear than you need for the passband used for the driver with an x-over. Great examples are SB Acoustics MR-16P, Scan Speak 10F varients, Vifa TC9FD/ TG9FD, and Visaton B80.
The Fast Bass Experiment - Are Heavy Woofers Slow? | StereoNET
Again the Qts of a driver really only applies to resonance (Fs). Imho a perfect Qts is .5 (ζ = 1).
"Overdamped Q<.5 (ζ > 1): The system returns (exponentially decays) to steady state without oscillating. Larger values of the damping ratio ζ return to equilibrium slower.
*An opened door in this example would return to it's closed "0" point very slowly, although without oscillating.
Critically damped Q=.5 (ζ = 1): The system returns to steady state as quickly as possible without oscillating (although overshoot can occur). This is often desired for the damping of systems such as doors.
*An opened door in this example is exactly like how most doors actually act- by design of course. For a large portion of the movement it moves very quickly, slowing down at the end to it's closed "0" point without oscillating.
Underdamped Q>.5 (ζ < 1): The system oscillates (with a slightly different frequency than the undamped case) with the amplitude gradually decreasing to zero. "- wiki
* A door in this example must be able to move both inward and outward. The opened door would violently swing back and past it's closed "0" point, and oscillate back and fourth in both directions for awhile before settling at it's closed "0" point.
If you want a simple rule of thumb for great impulse/transient/step response, simply choose the driver with the flattest, smoothest, and most importantly most extended frequency response- even if the frequency response is more extended/linear than you need for the passband used for the driver with an x-over. Great examples are SB Acoustics MR-16P, Scan Speak 10F varients, Vifa TC9FD/ TG9FD, and Visaton B80.
The Fast Bass Experiment - Are Heavy Woofers Slow? | StereoNET
Again the Qts of a driver really only applies to resonance (Fs). Imho a perfect Qts is .5 (ζ = 1).
"Overdamped Q<.5 (ζ > 1): The system returns (exponentially decays) to steady state without oscillating. Larger values of the damping ratio ζ return to equilibrium slower.
*An opened door in this example would return to it's closed "0" point very slowly, although without oscillating.
Critically damped Q=.5 (ζ = 1): The system returns to steady state as quickly as possible without oscillating (although overshoot can occur). This is often desired for the damping of systems such as doors.
*An opened door in this example is exactly like how most doors actually act- by design of course. For a large portion of the movement it moves very quickly, slowing down at the end to it's closed "0" point without oscillating.
Underdamped Q>.5 (ζ < 1): The system oscillates (with a slightly different frequency than the undamped case) with the amplitude gradually decreasing to zero. "- wiki
* A door in this example must be able to move both inward and outward. The opened door would violently swing back and past it's closed "0" point, and oscillate back and fourth in both directions for awhile before settling at it's closed "0" point.
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Hi dipankar862 in response to the second part of your post the answer is a resounding "maybe". If you investigate the original work Neville Thiele did you will find he suggested a wide range of possible "alignments" for the bass response of Bass Reflex enclosures (Helmholtz resonators). A popular one is the B4 alignment which is maximally flat Butterworth and 4th order slope. I think the Q there was around 0.32 or something similar. But that is just an individual case among many.
There are also Bessel alignments with low phase change, a funny Russian one (that I can't spell) that has a deliberate ripple that is the consequence of steeper initial rate of roll off after resonance etc.....
A low Q is not a magic number.
You will probably profit from reading about his work. His insights were made popular internationally through the "Journal of the Audio Engineering Society" in the early 1970's but the original work was published here in Australia in 1961 in a local journal I think.
As pointed out by previous posters its the scientifically predictable analysis of the low frequency response that makes his work important i.e less than 100c/s. Richard Small amplified Thiele's word in about six papers published in the JAES after Thiele's work. He expanded it to include sealed boxes and Auxiliary Bass Radiators. Be warned the maths are pretty serious...
Also it might be worth saying that some very credible listening tests done in the UK noticed that "colouration" or delayed resonance was a bigger concern to a panel of listeners than classic harmonic distortion. (I can quote the reference for this comment but will not get into a debate about subjectivity.....I'll leave that to the experts ha ha.)
Cheers Jonathan
There are also Bessel alignments with low phase change, a funny Russian one (that I can't spell) that has a deliberate ripple that is the consequence of steeper initial rate of roll off after resonance etc.....
A low Q is not a magic number.
You will probably profit from reading about his work. His insights were made popular internationally through the "Journal of the Audio Engineering Society" in the early 1970's but the original work was published here in Australia in 1961 in a local journal I think.
As pointed out by previous posters its the scientifically predictable analysis of the low frequency response that makes his work important i.e less than 100c/s. Richard Small amplified Thiele's word in about six papers published in the JAES after Thiele's work. He expanded it to include sealed boxes and Auxiliary Bass Radiators. Be warned the maths are pretty serious...
Also it might be worth saying that some very credible listening tests done in the UK noticed that "colouration" or delayed resonance was a bigger concern to a panel of listeners than classic harmonic distortion. (I can quote the reference for this comment but will not get into a debate about subjectivity.....I'll leave that to the experts ha ha.)
Cheers Jonathan
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Some says than the Coil inductance is important for transcient: the lower the number the faster the driver... It is writted in T/S datas.
Read also the number of layer turns around the coil is important as well (same as Lh measurement ? the lower (1 layer) the better ??
Also, the Qts doesn't say all at the end about the perceived transcient ! you may fin a sealed enclosure with a higher Qts speaker to have more transcient than a vented with low Qts driver...
A subjective feeling of the transcient is also coming from the quality of the tweeters and the tonal balance... so the data of the drivers doesn't give you all but a part of the answer !
You may want also than the Qm has less resistance to a better transcient and the Qe (the electrical part) to be strong for the amp to move and stop (the damping you talk about ? i.e. = less oscillations at the "0 volt" signal position (= door closed) ?)
Sorry, a little off topic, your question was more precise.
my 2 c
Read also the number of layer turns around the coil is important as well (same as Lh measurement ? the lower (1 layer) the better ??
Also, the Qts doesn't say all at the end about the perceived transcient ! you may fin a sealed enclosure with a higher Qts speaker to have more transcient than a vented with low Qts driver...
A subjective feeling of the transcient is also coming from the quality of the tweeters and the tonal balance... so the data of the drivers doesn't give you all but a part of the answer !
You may want also than the Qm has less resistance to a better transcient and the Qe (the electrical part) to be strong for the amp to move and stop (the damping you talk about ? i.e. = less oscillations at the "0 volt" signal position (= door closed) ?)
Sorry, a little off topic, your question was more precise.
my 2 c
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