English is an amalgam of all the invaders over the last 2000 years (almost everyone) and anything we could purloin that looked useful 😀.
I had thought the Amish were mainly from southern Germany. I clearly need to do more research. but the story of bastardisation of 'deitsch' to 'dutch' is compelling...
"I’ve just noticed an increasing amount of complaints about dialogue intelligibility at the cinema and wondering about the possible culprit."
Maybe you (and the people you regularly interact with) are just getting old? 😉
Maybe you (and the people you regularly interact with) are just getting old? 😉
I too was under the impression that the “Dutch” in “Pennsylvania Dutch” was a corruption of “deutsch” and thus means German. Which slipped my mind when I posted earlier. At any rate, I attached a map graphing the genetics of what “Dutch” means in my instance, not that it’s of any particular interest.
Lol, well my wife has bad hearing from working next to a coffee roaster without ear protection for a number of years. It was a work conversation with younger coworkers who also watched films and television this way that made me realize this was becoming a normal thing. I personally don’t have this problem at the cinema but like I said in the other thread, I attend Dolby or IMAX screenings when I go so the sound is usually fine to me.
Lol, well my wife has bad hearing from working next to a coffee roaster without ear protection for a number of years. It was a work conversation with younger coworkers who also watched films and television this way that made me realize this was becoming a normal thing. I personally don’t have this problem at the cinema but like I said in the other thread, I attend Dolby or IMAX screenings when I go so the sound is usually fine to me.
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Plenty of people hear the words they are reading “spoken” in their head when they read text, it is very common.
What’s less natural is seeing words when people speak. Hearing speech bypasses the formation of word symbols in the mind’s eye; reading text often elicits imaginary “spoken words” in the mind. Just a wild guess but perhaps this is because of the way we teach the ability to read.
What’s less natural is seeing words when people speak. Hearing speech bypasses the formation of word symbols in the mind’s eye; reading text often elicits imaginary “spoken words” in the mind. Just a wild guess but perhaps this is because of the way we teach the ability to read.
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the Amish started in german speaking Switzerland (Zurich region), but communities were all over western Germany and the low lands (Belgium and the Netherlands) and the majority spoke low german dialects. You still got some Mennonites orders (how we call the Anabaptists like Amish are here) down here also. They are mainly in protestant dominated area's. In Friesland (the Netherlands), in Hamburg (Germany) and arround Strassbourgh andin the Alsace region (France) there are still large communities of them, but they are less radical or visible than their American brothers. They learned how to hide because they were fiercly prosecuted by both the Catholic and the other Protestant churches and the gouverments of the countries here untill the early 20st century.
Not sure about making our ears weak but you raise a good point about intelligibly. Having worked in the TV industry for many years I am appalled at the quality of sound delivered by many of the streaming services. Add to this the current trends of actors mumbling and dialogue buried in overly loud effects captions are becoming a must.
When I first read this article I asked my students (around 150 of them, ages 13-18) if they watched with subtitles / captioning - approximately 90% of them have subtitles on at all times.
The vast majority of them consume media almost exclusively via streaming (Netflix, YouTube, etc.). Only a handful of those I asked had "proper" surround sound at home (i.e. with a dedicated centre channel speaker), most had a soundbar, and some only used earphones or their phone/tablet speaker.
My girlfriend and her daughters all watched with subtitles until I supplied them with decent speakers.
The local German dialect that comes closest to Hochdeutsch (Standard German) is the one spoken in Hannover, Lower Saxony in the north of the country.
To somebody who grew up with Hochdeutsch like myself Bavarian, Thuringian, Schwyzerdütsch and Austrian are almost impossible to understand ie they are effectively foreign languages.
To somebody who grew up with Hochdeutsch like myself Bavarian, Thuringian, Schwyzerdütsch and Austrian are almost impossible to understand ie they are effectively foreign languages.
Most crisp cinema sound I can recall hearing was at the Meyer Sound demonstration theater in Berkeley, CA. The demo was the opening of Master and Commander. Over all I found the house curve a little too hot in the treble but the center channel dialogue was refreshingly intelligible. After the demonstration, I remarked to the man in charge of it about the dialogue. His reply was transient response was key in a dialogue channel. For that reason I have had plans to replace my current ported center channel (DIYSG 88-Special) to a sealed 15” coaxial (DIYSG Vortex-15). Aiming for an Qtc between .5 and .707.
FYI. It issues called Closed-Captioning. (Not close). So called because they are normally hidden unless called into view.
Subtitles are normally not hidden and are more succinct. CC is usually verbatim and includes descriptions of sound effects and music. CC is meant for watching when you can’t hear. Subtitles aren’t.
Dialog too low in the mix is a known problem much discussed in the industry.
Subtitles are normally not hidden and are more succinct. CC is usually verbatim and includes descriptions of sound effects and music. CC is meant for watching when you can’t hear. Subtitles aren’t.
Dialog too low in the mix is a known problem much discussed in the industry.
I am in the UK and find that most TV programmes have poor sound. It could be because flat screen TVs project sound out of the rear. I would rather have pins jabbed in my eyes for the rest of my life than put a television on a wall the only alternative is a sound bar. Most dramas and films have to have the captions on or it is pointless trying to guess the plot.
I was surprised that teenagers use them a lot. I can't believe that there are still Sound Technicians employed (where I don't know). I Googled "Do TV companies still employ sound techs", all I got was pages of ads for jobs! I assumed that all they did was check a sound level meter on the desk and if it looked right - it was.
I was surprised that teenagers use them a lot. I can't believe that there are still Sound Technicians employed (where I don't know). I Googled "Do TV companies still employ sound techs", all I got was pages of ads for jobs! I assumed that all they did was check a sound level meter on the desk and if it looked right - it was.
It's easy to blame the sound techs, but that's not the whole problem. Like a lot of other things, it's far more complex. Trends and fads come into play, as well.
But I do have mad respect for the sound crews of 1950s-70s TV. Dialog was clean and clear and it was all monophonic. Even on today's technology, the old shows are easy to hear and understand.
There was a recent TV show that my wife used to watch that was a marvel of clarity. Phone, laptop, TV set, big Hi-Fi speakers, didn't matter. Always clean and clear, and richer sounding than vintage shows. I got in touch with the owner of the sound production company to extend my compliments on the work. He was surprised - and delighted to pass along the praise to the crew in the field.
But I do have mad respect for the sound crews of 1950s-70s TV. Dialog was clean and clear and it was all monophonic. Even on today's technology, the old shows are easy to hear and understand.
There was a recent TV show that my wife used to watch that was a marvel of clarity. Phone, laptop, TV set, big Hi-Fi speakers, didn't matter. Always clean and clear, and richer sounding than vintage shows. I got in touch with the owner of the sound production company to extend my compliments on the work. He was surprised - and delighted to pass along the praise to the crew in the field.
The problem with a lot of modern TV (especially american TV) and radio is that the sound is so full of background music or noise, just overloaded. And then they compress the s*** out of it to be louder so all you get is a chaotic mess of sound. Films and series are better on that, but even there that evolution is also going. It's like the world is affraid of silence...
Luckely in Europe you still got tv and radiostations where dynamics is important, where a second or 2 silence is not a sin and where the sound engineering is done like it should. They get rare, but they still exist...
I did throw out my tv a decade ago, and i don't miss it at all, also because most of what i watch is found online, and very often for free and with better sound than in the broadcast. And for music, i got a big collection after 35 years collecting, so i mostly play from what i got in hi res digital or vinyl.
Luckely in Europe you still got tv and radiostations where dynamics is important, where a second or 2 silence is not a sin and where the sound engineering is done like it should. They get rare, but they still exist...
I did throw out my tv a decade ago, and i don't miss it at all, also because most of what i watch is found online, and very often for free and with better sound than in the broadcast. And for music, i got a big collection after 35 years collecting, so i mostly play from what i got in hi res digital or vinyl.
At home I've had a problem for years that if I want to listen to a movie off DVD and connect the stereo feed from the DVD player the FX are too loud so I route through the TV where it's processing knocks all that down. I also sometimes leave the TV sound on low for a dialogue channel. I keep meaning to knock up some sort of centre channel for dialogue by taking a mono feed off the miniDSP with some highpass filtering on. At least in the old days mono gave a 6dB dialog boost.
One thing that has always amazed me is how much more coherent lyrics can be watching on TV. I assumed it was a combination of lip reading and TV sound being midrange focussed/eq'd.
Pet peeve.. adverts are not set to the same average level as the films on TV so you get it all as you want and the ad break sends you running screaming with the volume 😀