Do speaker cables make any difference?

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#622
I'm actually skeptical that there will be enough proof to win $1,000,000. However, to rebut Fokker, I am NOT afraid of the money, nor am I afraid of the challenge.
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dude, I am proud of you. really, I respect people who are willing to put their believes to test, however I disagree with their believes.

Keep us posted. thanks.
 
#625
My point is this. Assume the universe is as per the attached. You ABX test two components. You don't hear a difference. On the basis of that test, can you say no difference exists in actuality? If the universe is as per the attached, the answer is no.
 

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#626
serengetiplains said:
My point is this. Assume the universe is as per the attached. You ABX test two components. You don't hear a difference. On the basis of that test, can you say no difference exists in actuality? If the universe is as per the attached, the answer is no.
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By this logic, you could say that the law of gravity hasn't been "proven", because maybe there's a barn in Texas where it's suspended.

The whole point of ABX testing is audibility. Take an ABX test of two amplifiers. It would be trivial to distinguish between the two by using electrical test equipment. The amplifiers would have different output impedance, different levels of distortion, etc etc etc. But do these differences make any difference to the listener? Well, if they do, then certainly a person ought to be able to distinguish between the two components by ear.

P.S. We agree that the word "audible" means a person can hear it, right?
 
#627
I worked for a hifishop many years and tested lots and lots of cables and equipment. My experience is that cables have to comply with a minimal standard which is more minimal than many people think.

If soundquality can be distinguished between two cables of capable diameter and decent construction, difference would be distinguished between two cables from the same make (just by manufactureing tolerances) just as well.

Going beyond the point of "edequate" makes little sense to my experience...

My experience offcourse doesn't have to be yours, for the allmighty shaped all of us differently...😀
 
#631
FOKKER said:
dude, I am proud of you. really, I respect people who are willing to put their believes to test
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Thanks Fokker! In fact, I don't believe that there is much difference in cables, but I suspect there might be. What I do believe is that I can devise a good, solid test that will show whether that difference really exists, and if it does, can it be heard. The test could be extended to line level signals, I suppose.

We shall see if JREF is really interested. They told me they have gotten LOTS of mail on the subject. =)

Dumbass said:
Um, what does "audible" mean?
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Audible:
–adjective 1. capable of being heard; loud enough to be heard; actually heard.
 
#633
jneutron said:


Three speakers, one placed where the virtual image is supposed to be. The other two placed for stereo reproduction.

Then compare the fabricated virtual image to the real one.

It is a far more powerful method, finding the relative position between the virtual and the real. It can be instantaneous..
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John, you assume that the ear can localise that accurately in the absense of external stimuli such as sight. That is the first hypothesis you should be testing. In my knowledge of the literature that hasn't yet been proven in humans.
 
#634
Panicos K said:
Dumbass,as a quick off-topic brake,can you e-mail me any photos or details on your turntable as I'm on the same kind of project too?
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You mean my Russco?
http://www.stat.ucla.edu/~erickson/projects/cuemaster/

IMO high mass is of the essence, as well as getting a very solid connection to the plinth. In the photo you can make out weatherstripping I used to get 360deg contact between plinth and chassis. This deadens the otherwise ringy chassis.

Done correctly, you end up with something very large and very heavy. :devilr:
 
#636
jneutron said:


Those who claim audibility seem to have adjusted to the existing system setup long before swapping cables.

Pulling them into a situation where they need to readjust prior to any testing whatsoever, may be confounding the test protocol.

I do not believe the test protocol is adequate.

Cheers, John
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I believe you have a point.
 
#637
macgyver10 said:



I respectfully disagree. If I was testing for engineering the system that you describe, then I would be in full agreement.

However, we are testing the claim that many people have made, using the very same "inadequate tools". They maintain that they can hear it, so I'm suggesting that they be put to the test.

I'm not presupposing anything. In fact, although I'm skeptical, I would be interested to see the results of testing those claims. Maybe there IS something to it?

The test is controlled appropriately for what is being tested. We are testing a pre-existing claim, with tools that were used by the claimant. My hypothesis is that if visual and psychological cues are removed from the equation, they won't be able to detect what they earlier claimed they could. It's that simple.
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This is beginning to sound like one of Randi's observers,
 
#639
serengetiplains said:
My point is this. Assume the universe is as per the attached. You ABX test two components. You don't hear a difference. On the basis of that test, can you say no difference exists in actuality? If the universe is as per the attached, the answer is no.
Click to expand...

Looking at this pic posted, it make me wonder what changes to ABX testing needs to be modified to determine other aspects that make cables "audibly distinguishable"?
 
#640
Sy, I'm merely probing the question of the value or scope of application of ABX testing and am offering my observation that we don't really know its value because we don't have an adequate reference or test for such.

Dumbass, as to "audibility" I do mean conscious noticing by the person listening. I assume the range of what is noticed by different people varies according to their experience, much as in so many spheres of life (wine tasting is a good analogy).
 
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