I suggest that the reduction of Fs is mainly due to the increase of compliance of the initially 'stiff' spider during break in, and that this happens very quickly.
I also suggest that the amount by which the compliance changes will have little effect on the performance of a loudspeaker system.
I would be interested in seeing definitive measurements that support the notion that performance changes appreciably over a typical loudspeaker system 'break-in' time period.
I also suggest that the amount by which the compliance changes will have little effect on the performance of a loudspeaker system.
I would be interested in seeing definitive measurements that support the notion that performance changes appreciably over a typical loudspeaker system 'break-in' time period.
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If Fs no longer decreases after 'break-in', how do we account for Bon noticing "a subjective change in the NRX (pulp/CF) cone version after a few weeks constant use"?
The manufacturer only claims the data sheet T/S parameters are measured from a broken-in sample. Not for the general production.
I would not expect them to break-in general production samples unless it is for a premium model with associated cost increase.
Interestingly, the premium SB Satori mid-woofers data sheets do not contain the statement that the sample is broken-in. Maybe the papyrus cone material is not affected by "break-in", or all production is factory broken-in, at a higher price.
Considering how short echoic memory is, that's your imagination.
That is the set they use to determine specs, i doubt very much they ship broken in units.
dave
Many of my experiences were same boxes, one with broken-in drivers, one without. How do you measure nasal?
dave
Fair enough, but I still don't expect 'break-in' to continue to occur over "weeks of constant use".
Call me the devil's advocate!
You seem to have convinced yourself that cone material 'breaks in'. I'm not so sure that an aluminium cone does, but a paper cone that gradually absorbs moisture from its surroundings may.
Maybe some will throw stones at me.
I have read multiple tests about driver break in. The results were not conclusive or comparable and highly driver type and brand dependent.
Some drivers even changed a lot in parameters, but returned to "as new" spec's after a week without use.
I never heard about any driver that was destroyed because of wrong break in or too high level without break in.
PA driver, which seem to belong to the type that changes parameters permanently during break in, are in most cases driven at maximum level from the first second of use.
Did you ever hear Bruce Springsteen say, at the start of a concert " Sorry folks, we can not play loud music tonight, we have a new driver in the PA that has to be broken in gently"?
Anyway, I make new driver work with a few watt on their resonance frequency for an hour or two, then, after cool down, measure TSP. In many cases the parameter changes are irrelevant for the tune of the cabinet. One rises, another drops, result =+- 0
My audio memory is not good enough to record changes from brand new to one hundred hours later. Some speaker get boring or I find things I dislike after many hours. Others stay just fine over time.
Half a glass of wine has a much stronger impact on any listener than a year of speaker break in IMO. Sorry. Don't drink and listen 🙂
I compare A-B when ever possible. Just for my self. If you try to stay objective, this sometimes gives results that do not fit as "a general rule". Sometimes in A-B I hear things that strongly contradict my and others expectation.
Aluminum will harden and break if resonating at it's resonance frequency under load. For sure. If you have an aluminum cone in your speaker that resonates that strong, you will hear this and need to buy another driver. Resonating metal cones give a very ugly sound.
So a metal cone hardening and breaking in from moving that little air is quite far fetched.
You could as well expect the cone to melt from sunlight and change it's crystal structure... Maybe possible in wild theories.
If your personal speaker has improved over time, that's just fine for you. If you tell someone his speaker will improve over time, that is not a very realistic prediction.
The 30 or 60 day return policy in some regions makes sales personal of audio gear swear on “break in”. That is where I first heard about it. Anything they sell, from wires to speakers improves over time if you ask these smart specialists. For !00% this point in time will be after the return period.
That is where and why the break in hype started., which has a tiny truth in it.
I have read multiple tests about driver break in. The results were not conclusive or comparable and highly driver type and brand dependent.
Some drivers even changed a lot in parameters, but returned to "as new" spec's after a week without use.
I never heard about any driver that was destroyed because of wrong break in or too high level without break in.
PA driver, which seem to belong to the type that changes parameters permanently during break in, are in most cases driven at maximum level from the first second of use.
Did you ever hear Bruce Springsteen say, at the start of a concert " Sorry folks, we can not play loud music tonight, we have a new driver in the PA that has to be broken in gently"?
Anyway, I make new driver work with a few watt on their resonance frequency for an hour or two, then, after cool down, measure TSP. In many cases the parameter changes are irrelevant for the tune of the cabinet. One rises, another drops, result =+- 0
My audio memory is not good enough to record changes from brand new to one hundred hours later. Some speaker get boring or I find things I dislike after many hours. Others stay just fine over time.
Half a glass of wine has a much stronger impact on any listener than a year of speaker break in IMO. Sorry. Don't drink and listen 🙂
I compare A-B when ever possible. Just for my self. If you try to stay objective, this sometimes gives results that do not fit as "a general rule". Sometimes in A-B I hear things that strongly contradict my and others expectation.
Aluminum will harden and break if resonating at it's resonance frequency under load. For sure. If you have an aluminum cone in your speaker that resonates that strong, you will hear this and need to buy another driver. Resonating metal cones give a very ugly sound.
So a metal cone hardening and breaking in from moving that little air is quite far fetched.
You could as well expect the cone to melt from sunlight and change it's crystal structure... Maybe possible in wild theories.
If your personal speaker has improved over time, that's just fine for you. If you tell someone his speaker will improve over time, that is not a very realistic prediction.
The 30 or 60 day return policy in some regions makes sales personal of audio gear swear on “break in”. That is where I first heard about it. Anything they sell, from wires to speakers improves over time if you ask these smart specialists. For !00% this point in time will be after the return period.
That is where and why the break in hype started., which has a tiny truth in it.
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I am agnostic about break-in. See the thread title. My diy experience has been mainly confined to paper based cones and break-in has not been high on my list of priorities. I did perceive a change with the recent SB 5" paper cone mid-woofer and since it is replaced with the aluminium cone version, which I have never used before, is the reason for my query.
If I notice any significant subjective changes, I will report back, although it will probably be dismissed as a figment of my unreliable auditory memory.
And design and execution.
The more capable the driver the greater the potential to take some time to break in.
dave
As others have pointed out, a new driver often needs some use before the Fs and other T/S parameters stabilize. It is the suspension and surround that is "breaking in". I run a driver at driver at 20 or 25 Hz to near Xmax for a couple of minutes.
It is possible that a driver will change in sound characteristics at higher frequencies with use. If that is what you hear, then that is what you hear. However, I strongly doubt that the stresses in an aluminum cone or dome are high enough to work harden the material. If the sound is changing over time, there is some other physical phenomenon involved.
It is possible that a driver will change in sound characteristics at higher frequencies with use. If that is what you hear, then that is what you hear. However, I strongly doubt that the stresses in an aluminum cone or dome are high enough to work harden the material. If the sound is changing over time, there is some other physical phenomenon involved.
:^)
The fresh ones sounded a lot like that. it was MUCH less, but still there, with break-in. Phase plugs fixed the tiny remaining bit.
dave
The fresh ones sounded a lot like that. it was MUCH less, but still there, with break-in. Phase plugs fixed the tiny remaining bit.
dave
Does it come from cone break-in, or from spider break-in? Or from surround suspension break-in?
If it come from all three, what is the most important?
But "more bass" and "smoother" are easy to measure (and for someone more important than "more detail"!). It is easy to measure Thiele-Small parameters before and after the break-in: they are affected by suspension (spider+surround) compliance change. But how you measure the cone break-in? How will you differentiate subjectively between cone-break-in and suspension break-in?
Based on comparison with the A10p which was pretty good at 100 hrs, the A10.3 calmed down 500-1000 hrs. I won’t say the spiders and surrounds are exactly the same, but they look so, and given economies of scale and the way the T/S sort out they are, so that would point to the cone.
The radial profile of this MA cone is composed of a number of arcs (increasing in radius as the surround is approached). As it is used these particular areas flex and takes some time to reach the design target in flexibility. That is my educated guess.
The places where the cone profile transitions also turns out to be where EnABL ringlets are placed so you can get a good idea of where they are.
dave
You didn't answer any of my questions, and didn't present any measurements (as expected...).
"Looking so" and "Educated guess" are not enough, sorry.
Also, EnABL ringlets/dots are pure snake oil...
"Looking so" and "Educated guess" are not enough, sorry.
Also, EnABL ringlets/dots are pure snake oil...