To swing this thread into another area...
How about the FEAR factor of marketing/advertising?
Watch some commercials..... and read into the way they ALWAYS have a sometimes subtle, sometimes blatent message of Fear in them.
I'll bet you can't find any that don't have some Fear mentioned.
A car repairs insurance commercial - "it's not if your car breaks down.... but When.... and it WILL!"
Same goes for those home appliances ads.
And those walk-in tubs ads - you might Fall if you step in, buy our easy-enter shower.
And those miracle drug ads..... claims of helping you enjoy a better life (along with the plethora of Side Effects)
The Life Insurance ads too..... "you Don't want to burden your loved ones with your Final expenses.
Scaring the population about things is so common anymore.
Gotta keep that Fear going!
How about the FEAR factor of marketing/advertising?
Watch some commercials..... and read into the way they ALWAYS have a sometimes subtle, sometimes blatent message of Fear in them.
I'll bet you can't find any that don't have some Fear mentioned.
A car repairs insurance commercial - "it's not if your car breaks down.... but When.... and it WILL!"
Same goes for those home appliances ads.
And those walk-in tubs ads - you might Fall if you step in, buy our easy-enter shower.
And those miracle drug ads..... claims of helping you enjoy a better life (along with the plethora of Side Effects)
The Life Insurance ads too..... "you Don't want to burden your loved ones with your Final expenses.
Scaring the population about things is so common anymore.
Gotta keep that Fear going!
Maybe there's a lot of traffic on craigslist, and the ad will get more views than on other marketplaces. I don't know, I don't shop craigslist.
jeff
Totally agree. Mixing fastidious, tech savvy audiophiles and sales people with questionable hearing is deadly to stereo sales. 😵
That mental condition is in part something implanted in society's minds by others.^
See also FOMO
A subliminal control aspect in order to sell things.
Nah, I doubt that craigs list is a good place to sell certain stuff, even though it's a free site to do such on.
I've had a long-running ad on there for audio equipment and most times the stuff sits there for years.
Some popular audio "good stuff" at decent prices that I've restored to immaculate condition just sits on there.
Some lies/questionable quotes from Börresen M1 homepage https://audiogroupdenmark.com/product/boerresen-m1/
The performance of the M1 loudspeaker makes it necessary to redefine the quality of absolute high-end music reproduction.
Zirconium is by far the best choice of material, since it allows the basket to generate an inconceivable quality of natural sound.
The result is absolute musical purity
Cryogenic treatment of all metal components of the loudspeaker results in a further significant improvement in conductivity – unleashing finest and most subtle musical details.
The efficiency of this closed ribbon tweeter amounts to an exceptional 94dB
Unlike standard parallel filtering, where each driver receives its own frequency and phase content, the new serial filters work by diverting out-of-band currents around the current flows, thus creating a much more coherent system.
This unrivaled and innovative technological approach takes your music into a new echelon of acoustic delight.
The tweeter and woofer sections are fitted with matched terminals to ensure highest efficiency.
This unique sandwich construction supports a natural and organic sound.
The absorption prompts a vibration feedback that audibly purifies the sound quality. It is this natural and authentic sound that Ansuz Darkz devices are designed to preserve.
literally paving the way to an extremely clear, natural, and authentic sonic reproduction.
By implementing this the perceived blackness in the music improves significantly.
This significantly amplifies the musical signal and eliminates the background noise floor
this 3rd generation design which is a further optimization of the most effective frequencies which opens the soundscape even more and with the tiniest details when it comes to reproduction of the recordings.
The price is OK I guess., if you don't think that these statements are lies. The technology and quality of components and materials is basically ok, beneficial and expensive.
The performance of the M1 loudspeaker makes it necessary to redefine the quality of absolute high-end music reproduction.
Zirconium is by far the best choice of material, since it allows the basket to generate an inconceivable quality of natural sound.
The result is absolute musical purity
Cryogenic treatment of all metal components of the loudspeaker results in a further significant improvement in conductivity – unleashing finest and most subtle musical details.
The efficiency of this closed ribbon tweeter amounts to an exceptional 94dB
Unlike standard parallel filtering, where each driver receives its own frequency and phase content, the new serial filters work by diverting out-of-band currents around the current flows, thus creating a much more coherent system.
This unrivaled and innovative technological approach takes your music into a new echelon of acoustic delight.
The tweeter and woofer sections are fitted with matched terminals to ensure highest efficiency.
This unique sandwich construction supports a natural and organic sound.
The absorption prompts a vibration feedback that audibly purifies the sound quality. It is this natural and authentic sound that Ansuz Darkz devices are designed to preserve.
literally paving the way to an extremely clear, natural, and authentic sonic reproduction.
By implementing this the perceived blackness in the music improves significantly.
This significantly amplifies the musical signal and eliminates the background noise floor
this 3rd generation design which is a further optimization of the most effective frequencies which opens the soundscape even more and with the tiniest details when it comes to reproduction of the recordings.
The price is OK I guess., if you don't think that these statements are lies. The technology and quality of components and materials is basically ok, beneficial and expensive.
- Frequency response: 40Hz – 50KHz
- Sensitivity: 87 dB /1W
- Impedance: 6 ohms
- Dimensions (H x W x D): 14.5 x 7.9 x 17.3 inches
- Weight: 31 pounds
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If that is the case marketeers are taking advantage of people with a handicap which is a grade worse compared to simple lying. We should protect the weaker humans against such practices.
It seems conceivable to me, that, the nobodies who dreamed up this product’s wall of not so clever verbiage abandoned reason, and then turned to reviewers to lure in another round of bag holders.
They own several other high-end audio companies, including one that sells snakeoil cables and another that makes integrates nobody buys.
Back when B&W released the John Bowers Silver Signature bookshelf speakers, people thought they were forbiddingly expensive. Then came the Magico Mini, a nothing-special passive stand mount speaker that didn’t even get a proper finish, at $22k. I’ve thought of that brand as the enabler, as every year they seem to reiterate their previous design but even more gaudy, pointless and expensive. Now, $100k bookshelf speakers and no scientific evidence of technical superiority.
The people that buy these are the types that create YT channels to garnish attention and praise for their “achievement” buying another slab of aluminum designed by “whoever”.
I feel confident in stating high-end audio is the fashion show of the objectively absurd.
It's basic human nature recorded in all the ancient texts. I was just making the point that a significant percentage of people on this forum are immune to that concept due to their DNA. An expensive car has the same number of parts as a cheap car after all...
I have news for you buddy. That stuff is junk to 99.999% of the people. I literally can't give my stuff away. Nobody will take it for free.
Bose Lifestyle and Bose Wave Radio have you covered. I know they're ridiculously overpriced, low quality junk. But it's exactly what people want.
Maybe earlier - If you carefully examine the walls of caves inhabited by homo habilis, you might see the original ad giving the Ronco stick-sharpener the early competitive edge 😉.
Loosely translated - Worried about your next meal? Lose your only child to wild animals? You can now turn any stick into a poking, prodding, slashing, gashing, tripping, flipping, combat MACHINE! Lure all the ladies to your newly safe lair stocked to the ceiling with fresh wildebeest. While supplies last.
Almost nobody understands audio specifications. "High-end audio" is basically lies and distortions with a high gloss veneer finish.
I see your point Eddie, and I'm aware of the competition with certain products related to fashion.
However, my ad's offerings are geared towards the people who are aware of vintage quality, it's styling, and performance.
I state in the ad that I'm a professional tech who's tediously gone over each product to insure complete satisfaction, and that no further costs would arise and be an issue after purchase.
Costs/pricing includes any parts needed to get something back into shape, or even better-than-original codition, I believe that's fair.
I believe in describing things honestly, and even offer an audition of the particular product to insure satisfaction.
The equipment previously sold to people, all were quite pleased afterwords.
And several, in fact, have asked if I was interested in repairing other equipment for them, which I have done, but frown on because I prefer to be retired these days, and just want to sell off this leftover equipment from the repair shop since it closed.
Here's one item featured that I believe someone would certainly desire, even though it's been posted since late last year.
I have no doubt. You're preaching to the choir. All my stuff is either restored vintage, or custom built based on vintage designs. And there is a tiny market.
That turntable looks incredible. Dual 1099 was an industry standard and I lusted after it when I was much younger. I would snap it up if I didn't have two awesome turntables on the shelf ready to go.
That turntable looks incredible. Dual 1099 was an industry standard and I lusted after it when I was much younger. I would snap it up if I didn't have two awesome turntables on the shelf ready to go.
$8,000 today is equivalent in purchasing power to about $2,200 in 1980.
In 1980, one could buy JBL L300 pair with that money, but considering that the current used market price of L300 is $8000 or more, it is directly proportional to the inflation rate. In other words, its value has not decreased at all over the past 40 years.
If we were to ask whether the Focal Katana will also maintain its value after 40 years from now, well, it is highly likely that its value will definitely decrease, and honestly, it's hard to imagine any future where it's traded for anything other than a disposal price...
Here is the price list of JBL Speakers in 1980:
https://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/price-lists/1970-1999-prices.htm
In 1980, one could buy JBL L300 pair with that money, but considering that the current used market price of L300 is $8000 or more, it is directly proportional to the inflation rate. In other words, its value has not decreased at all over the past 40 years.
If we were to ask whether the Focal Katana will also maintain its value after 40 years from now, well, it is highly likely that its value will definitely decrease, and honestly, it's hard to imagine any future where it's traded for anything other than a disposal price...
Here is the price list of JBL Speakers in 1980:
https://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/price-lists/1970-1999-prices.htm
That's exactly how it looks like.
Not what is of good quality and durable is predominantly offered, but everything that people want and therefore sells very well.
BOSE is clearly overpriced, but still sufficient service friendly - go to inside-image under
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...y-from-inside-devices-serv-man-wanted.161363/
An even greater disaster in the event of a repair service is present at Tivoli Components - go to inside images under
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tivoli-model-one-vs-klh-model-twenty-one.181335/
and significantly worse than TIVOLI the brand SONORO (I have perform only one successless repair try on the fm radio unit "AU-1310" and slot cd player 7 years ago)
https://www.bedienungsanleitu.ng/sonoro/cubo-au-1310/anleitung
https://manualsbrain.com/en/manuals/281916/
As usual on most products in this kind, no repair support, no service-manual and no circuit diagram.
Here a try of similar model with some internal images:
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/380977
Mobile phones and PCs are used for an average of 3-4 years, after which they are replaced by new models. I note that this user behavior can be observed with all kind of electronic devices - even for home audio/home entertainment components and equipment for the kitchen (Braun, Bosch Miele etc).
So why should a manufacturer set a life expectancy for their product of 10-30 years (as was common in the 1970s) when in most cases it is replaced by a newer one long before that (often in still perfect technical condition by perfect operation) ?
So he doesn't do it. Not even with very expensive devices - where today you can find the same short lifetime parts as with the cheap components - especially with the Elcaps - e. g. this new brand for home audio:
https://www.soulnote.audio/soulnote-en/series-1
https://www.fairaudio.de/test/soulnote-a-1-vollverstaerker/
P.S.: "do marketers lie to us too much?"
To answer this question, one have to know first, what does the term "LIE" mean in competition law. If the omission of certain facts in advertising that are important for everyday use could already be described as "lies", the headline/topic has to be answered with a clear yes (e. g. mentioned value of wattage/output power without mentioned term "AES", "RMS" or "PMPO" (Peak Music Power Output).
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Nobody wants to buy overpriced junk. Those that buy Bose simply have needs which go beyond only the sound, and extend in to use convenience. Heretical for we audiophiles, I know. The majority of consumers aren't at liberty to position, or, are necessarily desirous of a room dominating audio system, even though such a system sound better to them than some Bose system. Also possible, is that their listening judgment is not practiced enough to readily note the sound character superiority of some non-Bose system. Many Bose buyers simply want an unobtrusive set-up, one which is visually non-obvious in their limited domestic living space. Without experiencing feelings of doubt or worry about that set-up's performance. They don't want to have rearrange their furniture, and unless they live alone, have to share the living space with family members. So, Bose 'Lifestyle' type audio systems are a desirable solution to that problem. 'Lifestyle' systems are an informative case of Bose product planners (the best marketed audio brand over the decades, by the way) recognizing that domestic audio consumers see product value through a wider lens than simply objective product performance specifications. Just as the value of an automobile is perceived as more than simply it's objective performance specifications.
Bose is also provides a good example of why customers, in any market, value branding. Since the great majority of audio equipment consumers are non-experts in that technology, and will remain such, as they can't justify the time, trouble and patience to become technology experts just in order to determine which products are superior for a given purchase decision. A decision which they hope not to never have to make again anyway. Day-to-day life presents too many demands on people's attention for them to become competently educated on the technology of every product purchasing decision. So, a product's brand becomes a proxy for it's objective performance, and quality for non-experts, and for ensuring the buyer can be at psychologically at ease in that purchase decision. This is true for all products purchased by those who are non-experts in that product area, but is especially true the more technically complex is a product. Such as cars, PCs, mobile phones, but even something as seemingly non-technical as toothpaste. You may have noticed regarding toothpaste that they feature two types of fluoride. Sodium-fluoride, and Stannous-fluoride. Why is there a choice of fluoride? What's the significance to me as a consumer? What's the relative benefit of each? Unless the consumer takes the time, and effort to educate himself on toothpaste chemistry, how does he make the 'best' (the most informed) purchase decision? That technical questions was only for a product as seemingly non-technical as toothpaste. Lacking expert knowledge then, which is most of the time for consumers, they often rely on brand name to make a 'safe' purchase decision whether for toothpaste, or for audio equipment.
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