I‘d like to fill in the bottom of small single driver satellites. They tend to begin from around 100Hz to 150Hz. They’re set up in a small apartment living room, so they don’t have to go low and can’t go loud. I don’t listen to a lot of bass-heavy music. I strongly prefer something crtically damped.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
After reading the first 5 words of the title: Yes, you need a subwoofer.
After reading your post: You probably will be well served with a 6" or 8' bass driver in a closed cabinet. Something usable down to around 40 Hz, not too much Xmax, low Le, so that it will do the 'low kick' as well.
After reading your post: You probably will be well served with a 6" or 8' bass driver in a closed cabinet. Something usable down to around 40 Hz, not too much Xmax, low Le, so that it will do the 'low kick' as well.
What single driver satelitte?
You don’t listen loud?
Ideally you need 2 woofers, whether you end up with a Sat + subs system or a WAW (woofer Assisted Widerange) will depend on where the XO ends up.
dave
You don’t listen loud?
Ideally you need 2 woofers, whether you end up with a Sat + subs system or a WAW (woofer Assisted Widerange) will depend on where the XO ends up.
dave
Dave -
i‘m experimenting with CHN-50, ScanSpeak 5F, and Bandor 50. The first is vented, while the other two are sealed.
i played with the ScanSpeak & Bandor drivers in sealed one liter boxes (approximately) several years ago. I high-passed with in-line filters (second-order at either 100Hz or 150Hz) to a relatively cheap & vented Yamaha sub. The single drivers sounded great. The sub could have been better. The setup was very near-field, and the satellites were very close together. Today, I have more space & knowledge, so there will improvements there.
i don’t listen at high volumes. I live in a second story apartment, and most of my music lacks heavy bass. I’m after articulate bass, not thump-thump. For that reason, I’m thinking of a sealed alignment, critically damped, using a 150 or 200MM driver, which could be metal. Based on your recommendation from another thread, I’m interested in a plate amp that will crossover as high as 200Hz. I could possibly squeeze in two subs, which would be ideal, as you said.
i‘m experimenting with CHN-50, ScanSpeak 5F, and Bandor 50. The first is vented, while the other two are sealed.
i played with the ScanSpeak & Bandor drivers in sealed one liter boxes (approximately) several years ago. I high-passed with in-line filters (second-order at either 100Hz or 150Hz) to a relatively cheap & vented Yamaha sub. The single drivers sounded great. The sub could have been better. The setup was very near-field, and the satellites were very close together. Today, I have more space & knowledge, so there will improvements there.
i don’t listen at high volumes. I live in a second story apartment, and most of my music lacks heavy bass. I’m after articulate bass, not thump-thump. For that reason, I’m thinking of a sealed alignment, critically damped, using a 150 or 200MM driver, which could be metal. Based on your recommendation from another thread, I’m interested in a plate amp that will crossover as high as 200Hz. I could possibly squeeze in two subs, which would be ideal, as you said.
Why not.
You want the drivers centre-to-centre ≤ a quarter wavelength at the XO, and if possible also in the range of 0.707 times to 1 times the FBS(-3).
The higher you cross the louder you can play, steeper the XO the louder you can play.
Lots of other XO topology considerations.
Acive or passive XO? Got an extra amp in the closet?
dave
You want the drivers centre-to-centre ≤ a quarter wavelength at the XO, and if possible also in the range of 0.707 times to 1 times the FBS(-3).
The higher you cross the louder you can play, steeper the XO the louder you can play.
Lots of other XO topology considerations.
Acive or passive XO? Got an extra amp in the closet?
dave
I’d use an inexpensive T-Amp & PLLXOs from Marchand, picking off the output of the passive pre using Y-adapters.
For bass units, I’m thinking of using two SB Acoustics 8Ohm 5”x8” drivers in parallel per channel. I like sealed. I could use the bass cabs as stands for the single drivers.
For bass units, I’m thinking of using two SB Acoustics 8Ohm 5”x8” drivers in parallel per channel. I like sealed. I could use the bass cabs as stands for the single drivers.
You are very unlikely to be able to drive that XO with a passive preamp.
You may be able to devise your own simple PLLXO, but you need to design for a first order XO. https://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/filters/passiveHLxo.html
dave
You may be able to devise your own simple PLLXO, but you need to design for a first order XO. https://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/filters/passiveHLxo.html
dave
SB Acoustics SB15SFCR39-8, from Madisound.
The passive pre is a Schitt Freyda S, which has switchable 12db gain (I believe).
The passive pre is a Schitt Freyda S, which has switchable 12db gain (I believe).
I have one of those with a dead channel. Tube section has gain, SS is just a buffer. Use the one with the lowest outpiut impedance.
dave
IMO crossing at those frequencies, certainly by the upper end, is high enough to start being able to hear the position of the drivers. So I'd want to position them close to the full-range drivers to maintain spatial coherence, especially with respect to their horizontal position.
Dave's 1/4-wavelength would be the theoretical ideal (about 22" 57cm at 150hz), so a WAW as he calls it would be a very good answer. Especially as you'd likely be able to get closer than this, and give yourself the option of crossing higher should you wish, to lighten the bass load on your full-range speakers. Though if practicalities dictate, you can use somewhat bigger vertical spacing than 1/4wave if the vertical lobe (pattern of radiation) that results still works for your situation.
But context is also important: the crossover frequency in the OP is pretty low. At these low frequencies you'll likely have room modes dominate so nice theoretical radiation patterns can start to become less meaningful in reality.
WRT the actual drivers, it doesn't really matter whether they're labelled subwoofers or woofers; there is a lot of overlap that people rather pointlessly argue about the nomenclature of. But many out-and-out subwoofer drivers won't play well up to 150hz (whilst others can), let alone higher; they're optimised for lower frequencies. So worth checking that whatever drivers you choose are okay up at whatever your top end of the range might end up being, not just whether they've got the low end ability that you want.
Are the pairs mounted isobarik? Usual style? Does this lower distortion & create bass-lift at around 100Hz?
Not isobarik. Crossing below about 500 Ha.the bass is omnidirectional and it matters not what direction they are pointing.
dave
dave
F-3 is only a useful number iof you are adding a subwoofer (ref Toole).
Extention of 2 woofers is the same as one. So the graph posted above applies. I used the Buitterworth/max flat alignment when i suggested 50 litres.
If you were adding subs and not HPassing the mains you wouldbring them im at 50 Hz or a tad higher with a 2nd order LP.
Push-push means way fewer box issues, 2 drivers means +3 dB efficiency, another +3 dB if they are wired in parallel (and the amp does not have issues with the lower impedance).
dave
Extention of 2 woofers is the same as one. So the graph posted above applies. I used the Buitterworth/max flat alignment when i suggested 50 litres.
If you were adding subs and not HPassing the mains you wouldbring them im at 50 Hz or a tad higher with a 2nd order LP.
Push-push means way fewer box issues, 2 drivers means +3 dB efficiency, another +3 dB if they are wired in parallel (and the amp does not have issues with the lower impedance).
dave
Dave -
Thanks very much for the design. It is very much appreciated.
Where would you place the drivers - near the floor (for loading) or near the top of the cabinet?
I now have to work out the dimensions & find a woodworker who can cut a straight line & whose work won’t require me to sell a kidney.
Thanks very much for the design. It is very much appreciated.
Where would you place the drivers - near the floor (for loading) or near the top of the cabinet?
I now have to work out the dimensions & find a woodworker who can cut a straight line & whose work won’t require me to sell a kidney.