Except that uncased that is going to spew huge amounts of RFI everywhere (not to mention break a lot of RFI regulations)
dave
Here is an example of a compact PC, one use of which is multimedia
Velkommen til fit-PC.dk
dave
Velkommen til fit-PC.dk
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
Hi
Peter, is this your first incarnation of a cPlay dedicated computer?
If not how does this mobo compare to your other set up?
What are your impressions of the sound?
I'm trying to decide between going down the mini itx mobo path or waiting until someone does a dedicated audiophile HDD player.
I like the Idea of using the mini itx mobo with a small ( 7") LCD display and mounting the whole thing in a custom made case.
Wooly, I take it that you are having a laugh.
The idea is to achieve the highest quality audio reproduction.
The iPod is good, but not that good.
I was also considering small LCD screen, but after running it into 42" Sony, small display isn't tempting anymore.
This is my actually 3rd implementation of PC transport (previous can be seen here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audi...ip-amp-kits-dacs-chassis-129.html#post1787133 )
I was initially building it for music, but after trying with large display, presently I use it for movies only. I tried some music briefly and it sounded fine, quite close to CD, but I didn't find an urge for any formal comparisons. So I have 40Gb SSD and portable 2.5" 600Gb drive where I download movies form my main PC. This setup work well for me. Sooner or later I will try music too, but for now CD is still more convenient, and I suspect better sounding.
Since ipod touch came up, I had a chance listening to it through Wadia dock in a well assembled system, which is mostly used for vinyl. According to system owner, ipod on a scale of 1-10, was approx at level 2
I have some questions for anyone who knows the anwer to the following questions.
Why does the PC sound good as a source ( when set up properly, services suspended, network cards turned off etc.)
Specifically;
Does the dividing down of a high frequency accurate clock result in a more accurate lower frequency clock?
To rephrase; if a 2.4 Ghz oscillator in the PC has a drift of 5ppm, when the clock is divided down to a lower frequency, is the effect of the drift divided down as well, or does the drift stay constant?
I think that the drift would be divided down as well.
So could this be a reason why the PC sounds good?
Why does the PC sound good as a source ( when set up properly, services suspended, network cards turned off etc.)
Specifically;
Does the dividing down of a high frequency accurate clock result in a more accurate lower frequency clock?
To rephrase; if a 2.4 Ghz oscillator in the PC has a drift of 5ppm, when the clock is divided down to a lower frequency, is the effect of the drift divided down as well, or does the drift stay constant?
I think that the drift would be divided down as well.
So could this be a reason why the PC sounds good?
PC Oscillator frequency
Hi Erin
The attached link may be of interest. I would guess that the frequency stability is likely to be far worse, due to the multiplication factor involved ?.
Add to that the fact that Motherboards often use Spread Spectrum techniques to reduce radiated interference. A big enemy of PC SQ appears to be due to PSU interraction. Some motherboards even pulse the auxiliary fans using PWM
when full cooling isn't needed . My PCs motherboard pulses the front HDD fan at around 10 pulses per second when the PC isn't too hot, which kind of defeats the purpose of fitting an aftermarket quiet fan !
I got improved SQ results by using 2 12V quiet fans in series directly off 12V.
Alex
Scott Mueller's Upgrading and Repairing • View topic - When does the chipset initialize during the boot process?
Hi Erin
The attached link may be of interest. I would guess that the frequency stability is likely to be far worse, due to the multiplication factor involved ?.
Add to that the fact that Motherboards often use Spread Spectrum techniques to reduce radiated interference. A big enemy of PC SQ appears to be due to PSU interraction. Some motherboards even pulse the auxiliary fans using PWM
when full cooling isn't needed . My PCs motherboard pulses the front HDD fan at around 10 pulses per second when the PC isn't too hot, which kind of defeats the purpose of fitting an aftermarket quiet fan !
I got improved SQ results by using 2 12V quiet fans in series directly off 12V.
Alex
Scott Mueller's Upgrading and Repairing • View topic - When does the chipset initialize during the boot process?
Alex,
thanks for that.
so its seems that most of the busses on the mobo are controlled by a low frequency oscillator, and some have their own indepedndant crystal, althogh still low frequency. so if I have a 2.4 Ghz processor, where does that frequency come from? Do you know?
I'm still trying to understand a few things.
1) why does the PC sound good? When perhaps it should not.
2) would a stand alone HDD media player with a good stable low jitter clock controlled by a low processing power embedded controller chip (eg. not a computer uP) sound better (at least in theory) than a computer for playback?
does anyone have an idea?
thanks
thanks for that.
so its seems that most of the busses on the mobo are controlled by a low frequency oscillator, and some have their own indepedndant crystal, althogh still low frequency. so if I have a 2.4 Ghz processor, where does that frequency come from? Do you know?
I'm still trying to understand a few things.
1) why does the PC sound good? When perhaps it should not.
2) would a stand alone HDD media player with a good stable low jitter clock controlled by a low processing power embedded controller chip (eg. not a computer uP) sound better (at least in theory) than a computer for playback?
does anyone have an idea?
thanks
PC oscillator
Erin
I haven't really looked into it, but I expect that it uses phase lock loops controlled by the reference oscillator.
In my experience, the typical PC isn't as good as a decent CD player, although it can be markedly improved by vibration reduction, and reducing interference via the PSU. Using non moving HDDs (SSD) also sounds better than with normal HDDs. You can also use a good quality internal CD/DVD ROM with EAC or other ripping programs at modest rip speeds directly into a fast USB pen such as the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT USB 2.0 for further improvements in SQ.These days, I even download high resolution .flac files directly to the Corsair, and also convert them to .wav files on the Corsair.
This has another advantage in that you can then plug the USB pen into something like the WD TV Live HD, and output via Toslink (unfortunately 48KHZ max.)into a decent DAC. A well modified PC can EASILY outperform most affordable CD/DVD players. Linear PSUs for both PC (expensive) and WD TV Live (12V 2A regulated) are a further advantage.
Alex
Erin
I haven't really looked into it, but I expect that it uses phase lock loops controlled by the reference oscillator.
In my experience, the typical PC isn't as good as a decent CD player, although it can be markedly improved by vibration reduction, and reducing interference via the PSU. Using non moving HDDs (SSD) also sounds better than with normal HDDs. You can also use a good quality internal CD/DVD ROM with EAC or other ripping programs at modest rip speeds directly into a fast USB pen such as the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT USB 2.0 for further improvements in SQ.These days, I even download high resolution .flac files directly to the Corsair, and also convert them to .wav files on the Corsair.
This has another advantage in that you can then plug the USB pen into something like the WD TV Live HD, and output via Toslink (unfortunately 48KHZ max.)into a decent DAC. A well modified PC can EASILY outperform most affordable CD/DVD players. Linear PSUs for both PC (expensive) and WD TV Live (12V 2A regulated) are a further advantage.
Alex
Alex, I play my music ripped with EAC on my fully optimied PC using cPlay and CMP. Not sure if you know of this:
cMP² | Main / HomePage
It sounds awesome.
Curious, are you saying there is a sonic improvement by ripping the CD with EAC striaght to the USB stick rather than the HDD?
thanks
cMP² | Main / HomePage
It sounds awesome.
Curious, are you saying there is a sonic improvement by ripping the CD with EAC striaght to the USB stick rather than the HDD?
thanks
memory card etc.
erin
I use the latest W7 version of Creative Media Source Player with an Xonar D2X then coax SPDIF out.
Unfortunately, I am unable to get c-play to work with this,although it thinks it is playing, nothing comes out, and I am reluctant to remove the CMSP software to try it.
Yes, I am saying that I get improved results by ripping directly to the Corsair Voyager which I plug directly into the back of the PC. I will also say that when using the Corsair plugged into the WD TV Live HD, that although it plays .flac files directly, that the downloaded .flac files do not sound quite as good as the .wav files on the same USB pen that were derived from these same DL High res. .flac files !
I haven't had a chance yet to see if this is still the case when using my new 12V 2A regulated linear PSU with the WD TV Live , instead of the supplied switchmode wallwart. This is when using Optical out from the WD TV Live HD into a heavily modified Silicon Chip magazine DAC.
Alex
erin
I use the latest W7 version of Creative Media Source Player with an Xonar D2X then coax SPDIF out.
Unfortunately, I am unable to get c-play to work with this,although it thinks it is playing, nothing comes out, and I am reluctant to remove the CMSP software to try it.
Yes, I am saying that I get improved results by ripping directly to the Corsair Voyager which I plug directly into the back of the PC. I will also say that when using the Corsair plugged into the WD TV Live HD, that although it plays .flac files directly, that the downloaded .flac files do not sound quite as good as the .wav files on the same USB pen that were derived from these same DL High res. .flac files !
I haven't had a chance yet to see if this is still the case when using my new 12V 2A regulated linear PSU with the WD TV Live , instead of the supplied switchmode wallwart. This is when using Optical out from the WD TV Live HD into a heavily modified Silicon Chip magazine DAC.
Alex
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Erin
I tried that, and quite a few other suggestions from a friend in Brisbane who has tried both players. I am already getting far better than average results, so getting cPlay to work is not a high priority for me at the moment.
In fact, HEAPS better than direct CD play from the internal LG BR drive, or for that matter either of my modded Pioneer and Oppo DVD-A/SACD players.Even a friend's MarantZ SA11.
Alex
OK, so I bought a Western Digital Mini media player to try.
I used a WD external HDD running into this little device. Running toslink into my CS4397 dac. It sounded really bad. Muddy. No air. Nothing. the best I could say is that sound came out.
After half an hour of playing it started to "run in" a bit. I changed the supplied SMPS for a 12V SLA battery. This made quite an improvement to the sound. After another album it seems to have run in quite a bit more and the bass has more definition and the midrange is quite smooth. I removed the HDD and tried a USB flash drive and played a .wav file. there was another big improvement in sound. I suspect that this is due to the HDD having a SMPS powering it.
so now its sounds lots better than it did originally but still nowhere near the sound of my computer with CMP and cPlay, It just does not have enough detail, or enough of anything
I may tap the i2s lines off the WD mini and see if gets any better.
At the moment I would say that it is not a device for audiophiles.
Even with the battery and flash drive running it, its only as good as a midrange CD player. Acceptable for the average person, maybe, but nothing special. Oh well....
I used a WD external HDD running into this little device. Running toslink into my CS4397 dac. It sounded really bad. Muddy. No air. Nothing. the best I could say is that sound came out.
After half an hour of playing it started to "run in" a bit. I changed the supplied SMPS for a 12V SLA battery. This made quite an improvement to the sound. After another album it seems to have run in quite a bit more and the bass has more definition and the midrange is quite smooth. I removed the HDD and tried a USB flash drive and played a .wav file. there was another big improvement in sound. I suspect that this is due to the HDD having a SMPS powering it.
so now its sounds lots better than it did originally but still nowhere near the sound of my computer with CMP and cPlay, It just does not have enough detail, or enough of anything
I may tap the i2s lines off the WD mini and see if gets any better.
At the moment I would say that it is not a device for audiophiles.
Even with the battery and flash drive running it, its only as good as a midrange CD player. Acceptable for the average person, maybe, but nothing special. Oh well....
erin
Are you referring to one of those original little WD players that you can currently buy for AU$50 from Officeworks etc due to being discontinued ?
I think you will find that the later WD TV Live HD is much improved on that. The local PC magazines have been giving the WD TV Live HD the thumbs up for some months now.(FWIW !)
I also understand from looking at the WD forums that there have been firmware updates with the more expensive Live player to overcome sound problems. I agree with your other comments about the SMPS, and I did not even bother with trying a HDD with it.
I imagine though, that if I did try a USB HDD with it that the results when using the new 12V 2.5A linear regulated supply that I made especially for it would be considerably better.As regards the quality of the playback when using a USB pen with it, I can only say that the majority of PCs and Macs are not able to rip .wav files that sound as good as a decent CD player anyway.Perhaps that is the reason why the HiFace is so popular, with its jitter correction abilities ?
SandyK
P.S.
Don't forget that PSU electrolytics can take several days to fully form, and SQ may be up and down in cycles for some time.
You really need to give it more time, although that little earlier model may never do a great deal better.
Are you referring to one of those original little WD players that you can currently buy for AU$50 from Officeworks etc due to being discontinued ?
I think you will find that the later WD TV Live HD is much improved on that. The local PC magazines have been giving the WD TV Live HD the thumbs up for some months now.(FWIW !)
I also understand from looking at the WD forums that there have been firmware updates with the more expensive Live player to overcome sound problems. I agree with your other comments about the SMPS, and I did not even bother with trying a HDD with it.
I imagine though, that if I did try a USB HDD with it that the results when using the new 12V 2.5A linear regulated supply that I made especially for it would be considerably better.As regards the quality of the playback when using a USB pen with it, I can only say that the majority of PCs and Macs are not able to rip .wav files that sound as good as a decent CD player anyway.Perhaps that is the reason why the HiFace is so popular, with its jitter correction abilities ?
SandyK
P.S.
Don't forget that PSU electrolytics can take several days to fully form, and SQ may be up and down in cycles for some time.
You really need to give it more time, although that little earlier model may never do a great deal better.
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Yes it was interesting. though they say to "Just before burning, copy the files to an empty
Compact Flash Card (you will need at least 1Gb
capacity) that is DIRECTLY connected to the synchronous
master bus of your computer, not connected
via USB. Highly recommended is a laptop
computer with an ExpressCard bus interface. The
advantage of this is that the laptop is run on batteries
during the burning process, with the screen
turned off."
Whereas sandyK notices good results ripping to a usb stick.
Also they say "- Some (CD's) are non-eccentric and not perfectly flat, causing excessive fluttering and whopping."
well every CD player spec. sheet that i have read says that wow and flutter is unmeasurable!
But I'm a big believer that the little things all add up to a big thing so I guess it all counts.
thanks Peter
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