And that the OP hasn’t logged into diyaudio since 2016 ;-)
This is one of those threads that will never come to a definitive conclusion, it’s an infinite loop!
Best,
Anand.
This is one of those threads that will never come to a definitive conclusion, it’s an infinite loop!
Best,
Anand.
Involuntary thread-necrophilia 😀
Yup, but this not change the fact that the 300B is quite linear.
I will buy a couple of them as a consolation prize because the DIY 16K OPT for the 211 had become a dead end. 🙄
12 years later we learned how to make SE amps that are still transparent as SE has to be, preserving precious decaying reverberation the best, but with pretty small distortions on rated power for great reproduction of orchestra sounds, but still soft clipping, and with real damping by negative output resistance unlike typical ginormous numbers of DF when speakers are damped by own DCR. And how to get sounds from cheap TV tubes better than from especially crafted vintage triodes, without the need to use awfully expensive output transformers to get 100 kHz bandwidth.
Who followed our discussions on the forum how to cook pentodes, how to use nested feedback, how to regulate voltages, got it finally. I did. Did you? ;-)
Who followed our discussions on the forum how to cook pentodes, how to use nested feedback, how to regulate voltages, got it finally. I did. Did you? ;-)
Actually Anatoliy, don't you think nested feedback loops are extremely difficult to get right unless having expertise and experience of someone like you? There is very little detailed design information even in the old textbooks.
Do you use the ME2s with a sub? I have built them a few years ago but I was disappointed with the lack of bass.
Also, are you happy with their efficiency by using them with 300B amps?
No sub in use - and none required. My room is not large: about 3.0m x 3.4m (11' x10') and the room-lift is working very well against the bass roll-off.
As Lynn says, the ME2 is not designed to shake the windows, but all kinds of music, orchestral or electric - even 1970s King Tubby's Dub - play as expected; the sound is not in the least thin, electric bass is clear and palpable, and I never wish for more bass.
The efficiency with 300Bs is fine, even though I run them at 350V 80mA
As Lynn says, the ME2 is not designed to shake the windows, but all kinds of music, orchestral or electric - even 1970s King Tubby's Dub - play as expected; the sound is not in the least thin, electric bass is clear and palpable, and I never wish for more bass.
The efficiency with 300Bs is fine, even though I run them at 350V 80mA
Mine sound thin without any bass. And I have a similar room as yours.
I don't know, maybe I have done something wrong with the dimensions of the port as I have used one instead of two.
I don't know, maybe I have done something wrong with the dimensions of the port as I have used one instead of two.
If you use free room measurement software like Room EQ Wizard (REW), by John Mulcahy, you can easily evaluate what your in room low frequency response looks like below your schroeder frequency (typically under 200Hz) and see that room modes, SBIR, etc...are the major issue and hence why one person might feel that the bass is adequate while another feels that it is inadequate. That being said, like Rod Coleman says, the Vifa P13 woofer used in the ME2 was never designed to shake walls and a small room would be of benefit. You will get 'some' midbass, and then that's it. The original design, ie. the Ariel, was a transmission line for primarily this reason, to provide deeper low end extension.
Getting good clean low distortion midbass and bass is a full topic in and of itself and best discussed in another forum like Room Acoustics, etc...so I will stop here.
Best,
Anand.
SE is very good if paired with audionote alnico magnets. The combination is very dynamic and real sound.
However it is not intended to use with neo or ferrite.
300B is just a tube. By modern standards the 845 for example is going to decapitate the 300B in terms of sound and resolution.
However it is not intended to use with neo or ferrite.
300B is just a tube. By modern standards the 845 for example is going to decapitate the 300B in terms of sound and resolution.
Thanks Anand for the detailed answer. Sure I know that room treatment is a major aspect for bass. But my ME2s are not having any bass. From the moment I built the BIBs they're in the closet and that's a pity because I spent a lot of money for them.
As I said, maybe I have done wrong on the measurements of the port. I used one instead of two.
"300B is just a tube. By modern standards the 845 for example is going to decapitate the 300B in terms of sound and resolution."
That all depends on who and what day you ask.
That all depends on who and what day you ask.
Especially designed speakers for SE, no damping, huh? Really? 😀
"When people say "I prefer SS amps driving woofers because they are more powerful", they are mistaken most often! Typical SS amps just had better DF than typical tube amps. They use a small fraction of that available power, while the amp damps resonances of woofers actually. Edelweiss-3 acts like a servo-control when interacting with woofers, revealing that power is not needed to reproduce bass; what is needed, to tame up resonances of speakers damping them. Also servo control extends a bit bass below resonant frequency making the frequency response a bit flatter than when controlled by a SS amp with high DF.
I just used the same approach that was used to servo-control speed of DC motors in tape recorders. 😀
Actually, it does not matter which active components to use, either tubes, transistors, or opamps; the math is still the same. 🙂 "
Wavebourn - What servo control of speakers mean | Facebook
"When people say "I prefer SS amps driving woofers because they are more powerful", they are mistaken most often! Typical SS amps just had better DF than typical tube amps. They use a small fraction of that available power, while the amp damps resonances of woofers actually. Edelweiss-3 acts like a servo-control when interacting with woofers, revealing that power is not needed to reproduce bass; what is needed, to tame up resonances of speakers damping them. Also servo control extends a bit bass below resonant frequency making the frequency response a bit flatter than when controlled by a SS amp with high DF.
I just used the same approach that was used to servo-control speed of DC motors in tape recorders. 😀
Actually, it does not matter which active components to use, either tubes, transistors, or opamps; the math is still the same. 🙂 "
Wavebourn - What servo control of speakers mean | Facebook
Which of this 2 tubes is preferrable depends on how much electricity you allow to burn in your speaker coils. If you prefer low efficiency speakers that for the same loudness, frequency response and distortions, burn more electricity, you have to use more powerful tubes for the same sound quality, paying more for electricity. In terms of sound and resolution it would be the same, if in both cases amps are properly designed.
However, if you have 10-20 listeners who are speaking during bass solo (but who does not, right?), may be with the same speakers 845 is justified.
The dimensions and positions of the 2 ports are of the greatest importance, and the bass will certainly be badly affected, if they are not implemeted correctly.
Making a new back panel and adding the pipes is a small part of the construction time of the ME2, and a very small part of the cost.
I would certainly encourage you to update your work on them, as they are superb performers.
One precaution: the Vifa P13WH midbass units are out of production, and the older manufactured units sometimes suffer from degraded rubber-surrounds, which can go too stiff. Please check yours before proceeding! This can also reduce the bass.
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