Hi all!
Has anyone the Diylabs Screen used ? I'm very interested in it.
Is it the money worth ? What material is it ?
Thanks for your help,
Bernhard
Has anyone the Diylabs Screen used ? I'm very interested in it.
Is it the money worth ? What material is it ?
Thanks for your help,
Bernhard
Neversaid,
There is a web site, but I don't know the link, where a guy had a nice stewart film screen and he set up nearly every kind of DIY screen material on small squares and compared all of them at the same time to his stewart screen. The amazing result was that the best color and brightest screen was also the cheapest. It was light silver colored Rust-o-leum spray paint on a flat smooth surface. I would try a cheap piece of 1\4 inch MDF with a cheap wood frame to hold it straight. Then paint it with wood primer and then the light silver colored paint.
You could also try mixing glass beads that are used for paint on screen with the paint to make it more diffussive. This would reduce the brightness somewhat but would increase the angle of viewing.
Hezz
There is a web site, but I don't know the link, where a guy had a nice stewart film screen and he set up nearly every kind of DIY screen material on small squares and compared all of them at the same time to his stewart screen. The amazing result was that the best color and brightest screen was also the cheapest. It was light silver colored Rust-o-leum spray paint on a flat smooth surface. I would try a cheap piece of 1\4 inch MDF with a cheap wood frame to hold it straight. Then paint it with wood primer and then the light silver colored paint.
You could also try mixing glass beads that are used for paint on screen with the paint to make it more diffussive. This would reduce the brightness somewhat but would increase the angle of viewing.
Hezz
I can’t say for sure because I have never tried the diylabs material but I'm pretty sure that it is just normal blackout cloth. The 54" size is usually a dead give away. You may be able to get blackout cloth cheaper at a local cloth store.
Cohort36,
You are correct. That is what I intended to mean but somehow I typed the wrong thing.
The glass beads will increase the brightness but reduce the viewing angle somewhat.
Thanks, Hezz
You are correct. That is what I intended to mean but somehow I typed the wrong thing.
The glass beads will increase the brightness but reduce the viewing angle somewhat.
Thanks, Hezz
Hi everyone! Yes the screen material I sell at www.diylabs.org/projector/ is simply blackout cloth. You probably can get it cheaper at fabric stores locally, but I just offer it as a convenience. If you're using a bed sheet, then definitely spend the extra $15-20 to get the blackout cloth - it will be a brighter and better defined image because this material doesn't allow any light to pass through and become diffused. Right now I have it on sale for about $17 if memory serves correctly, but you might still be able to get it cheaper locally. Email me at astaples@diylabs.org if you need anything.
Here's the REAL stuff....
Howdy all,
Thought I could help out. I just stumbeld upon this forum... I knew there were more like me out there somewhere!
Anyway, in my quest to have that perfect home-cheap-theatre, I found a couple places to get the ACTUAL material used in theatres:
http://www.dazian.com/html/projection_screens.html
-or-
Do a search for 'projector screen' at: http://www.ebay.com
At only 10-$17/ ln yard you really should consider this stuff over blankets and sheets.
The more I read, the more I learned that there is actually more to this material then I had thought. It has properties which actally 'boost' the light, depending on which material is used, and that differnt shades of this material (from white to light grey) are used for diffent applications depending on the lumens of the source.
I found a place that sells this 'material' that can be sprayed onto any flat surface, but very expensive at $100+/bottle, requiring a top coat & special undercoat. I can't find the link at the moment.
Has anyone seen what this guy's solution for lighting looks like? It's not only flouescent (low heat), but VERY bright. He got them at Wal-Mart if I remember correctly...
http://www.geocities.com/zark5150/projpicnew3.html
http://www.geocities.com/zark5150/result1.html
Well, onto doing a search for the best (& cheapest) LCD screen. I tried the t.v. & lens thing & was dissapointed with the lighting, and the blur at the edges. I looks like I'll have to fork out the $$$ for an LCD to get good reluts...
Anyone with a fresh link to to purchase working/new easy-to-use & cheap LCD sceens please send me the link...
Howdy all,
Thought I could help out. I just stumbeld upon this forum... I knew there were more like me out there somewhere!
Anyway, in my quest to have that perfect home-cheap-theatre, I found a couple places to get the ACTUAL material used in theatres:
http://www.dazian.com/html/projection_screens.html
-or-
Do a search for 'projector screen' at: http://www.ebay.com
At only 10-$17/ ln yard you really should consider this stuff over blankets and sheets.
The more I read, the more I learned that there is actually more to this material then I had thought. It has properties which actally 'boost' the light, depending on which material is used, and that differnt shades of this material (from white to light grey) are used for diffent applications depending on the lumens of the source.
I found a place that sells this 'material' that can be sprayed onto any flat surface, but very expensive at $100+/bottle, requiring a top coat & special undercoat. I can't find the link at the moment.
Has anyone seen what this guy's solution for lighting looks like? It's not only flouescent (low heat), but VERY bright. He got them at Wal-Mart if I remember correctly...
http://www.geocities.com/zark5150/projpicnew3.html
http://www.geocities.com/zark5150/result1.html
Well, onto doing a search for the best (& cheapest) LCD screen. I tried the t.v. & lens thing & was dissapointed with the lighting, and the blur at the edges. I looks like I'll have to fork out the $$$ for an LCD to get good reluts...
Anyone with a fresh link to to purchase working/new easy-to-use & cheap LCD sceens please send me the link...
I have also heard good things about the special screen paint that you put on your walls, but I'm unwilling to try it because it is so expensive. Also I don't want to have a big gray rectangle on my wall!
I suggest using a gray screen for the best contrast possible. A high contrast image that is dim will usually look a lot nicer than a bright image with ultra low contrast, which is what you usualy get from those glass bead screens (unless your projector is high contrast to begin with, which isn't usually the case).
I actually don't suggest using the eBay auctions if you can get it localy. It would almost always be cheaper to get it locally. You can also get it on my website, which is convenient if you are already ordering other parts, but I'm just using blackout cloth purchased at a fabric store. I'm hoping to save up some money so that I can buy it in larger quantities so that I can save people a lot of money, but so far my prices are probably average.
As for that flourecent light source, I really don't think it's as bright as you think it is. First of all it will only work for small LCD screens because it's being used as a backlight. If you are going to use an LCD that is larger than about 4", then you'll need to use something that is a point source, meaning that the light comes from a small region (usually about 1" in diameter). The actual lamp can be a lot larger if need be, but the light needs to be created in that small space. That's why metal halides are nice - lots of light from a relatively small space. I personally really like the 250 watt kits at www.diylabs.org, but I also understand that they're not cheap; although they are marked down quite a bit right now for the January sale ($149 for a complete kit). I almost hate to mention the price because flourecents seem like a better solution when they only cost $15, but I firmly believe that the metal halide is the way to go. Feel free to email me or read the lighting section on www.diylabs.org/projector/ if you have any questions about lighting - I've tried just about everything except for LEDs.
Good luck with everything! This is a really fun project, even if you have to do it on a budget!
I suggest using a gray screen for the best contrast possible. A high contrast image that is dim will usually look a lot nicer than a bright image with ultra low contrast, which is what you usualy get from those glass bead screens (unless your projector is high contrast to begin with, which isn't usually the case).
I actually don't suggest using the eBay auctions if you can get it localy. It would almost always be cheaper to get it locally. You can also get it on my website, which is convenient if you are already ordering other parts, but I'm just using blackout cloth purchased at a fabric store. I'm hoping to save up some money so that I can buy it in larger quantities so that I can save people a lot of money, but so far my prices are probably average.
As for that flourecent light source, I really don't think it's as bright as you think it is. First of all it will only work for small LCD screens because it's being used as a backlight. If you are going to use an LCD that is larger than about 4", then you'll need to use something that is a point source, meaning that the light comes from a small region (usually about 1" in diameter). The actual lamp can be a lot larger if need be, but the light needs to be created in that small space. That's why metal halides are nice - lots of light from a relatively small space. I personally really like the 250 watt kits at www.diylabs.org, but I also understand that they're not cheap; although they are marked down quite a bit right now for the January sale ($149 for a complete kit). I almost hate to mention the price because flourecents seem like a better solution when they only cost $15, but I firmly believe that the metal halide is the way to go. Feel free to email me or read the lighting section on www.diylabs.org/projector/ if you have any questions about lighting - I've tried just about everything except for LEDs.
Good luck with everything! This is a really fun project, even if you have to do it on a budget!
Thank you for the info!
Thanks for the reply,
I checked out your site, added it to my favorites right away! I'll keep your light kit in mind, right now I'm asking everyone I know if they know someone selling/getting rid of anying w/an LCD screen in it!
I do have a very old color laptop w/windows 3.1 in it, but I'm sure it has both horrible resolution and something like 56 colors... Plus I dont know how I would power the thing once I ruined the laptop taking it out!
Look like you've got some cheap LCD screens on your site. At $159 I dont think I'll find a better deal. However bit concerned w/640X480 - looks like everyones after the better resolution models now... It must make a big difference if everones after them?
Thanks for the reply,
I checked out your site, added it to my favorites right away! I'll keep your light kit in mind, right now I'm asking everyone I know if they know someone selling/getting rid of anying w/an LCD screen in it!
I do have a very old color laptop w/windows 3.1 in it, but I'm sure it has both horrible resolution and something like 56 colors... Plus I dont know how I would power the thing once I ruined the laptop taking it out!
Look like you've got some cheap LCD screens on your site. At $159 I dont think I'll find a better deal. However bit concerned w/640X480 - looks like everyones after the better resolution models now... It must make a big difference if everones after them?
I'm glad you like the website. I try to keep it as up-to-date as possible. It is intended to compliment DIYAudio's website since there is a lot of repeat and antiquated threads that you have to read through over here. My website is supposed to be a collection of the wisdom found here, and then my own additions and modifications, as well as additions from others who contribute material to my site.
As for those LCD panels, I don't know about the whole resolution argument... TV broadcast and DVD output are all in 640x480, so the only reason to go to a higher resolution LCD would be if you are using your computer as input. Obviously you can stretch the image from cable or a DVD input to a higher resolution, but you don't gain any clarity from that. If you have a super nice line doubler or scan converter, then I suppose you could get a stretched image to look better, but then you'd probably be spending enough money to just by a nice CRT projection TV from sony.
Just in case someone reading this needs a cheap panel that only has to have a VGA input, then I've got a panelbook 450 that I could part with for $40 plus shipping. Only downside is that it has no power supply, but I have the pinout for it on my website so you could build your own using two transformers from Radio Shack.
As for those LCD panels, I don't know about the whole resolution argument... TV broadcast and DVD output are all in 640x480, so the only reason to go to a higher resolution LCD would be if you are using your computer as input. Obviously you can stretch the image from cable or a DVD input to a higher resolution, but you don't gain any clarity from that. If you have a super nice line doubler or scan converter, then I suppose you could get a stretched image to look better, but then you'd probably be spending enough money to just by a nice CRT projection TV from sony.
Just in case someone reading this needs a cheap panel that only has to have a VGA input, then I've got a panelbook 450 that I could part with for $40 plus shipping. Only downside is that it has no power supply, but I have the pinout for it on my website so you could build your own using two transformers from Radio Shack.
Just want to clear up the whole TV resolution thing...
quote: http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/interlace.htm
"The biggest misundertanding when it comes to PC video enthusiasts is the idea of horizontal resolution. When we talk about PC monitor resolutions we are talking about pixel resolution. So a PC screen may have a resolution of 800 x 600 which means 800 pixels (dots) going across horizontaly and 600 pixels going down vertically."
"TV engineers, however, only speak about TV resolutions in terms of the number of lines going across not down! Why? Because all TV's have exactly the same amount of lines going down, but not all TV's have the same amount of discernable dots going across. For example, an American TV picture will always scan exactly 480 lines down, but the number of dots going across will always depend on the quality of the TV and the signal broadcast to it. A VHS video will only offer about 210 dots across while a TV station may offer about 330 dots across..."
--------------
And I'd like to add that the alternating scan makes the picture that much more abysmal in terms of pixel resolution comparisons. The best comparison that can be made is 320x240, since all of the horizontal dots are scanned on each line, but only half of the vertical lines are scanned (per scan).
quote: http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/interlace.htm
"The biggest misundertanding when it comes to PC video enthusiasts is the idea of horizontal resolution. When we talk about PC monitor resolutions we are talking about pixel resolution. So a PC screen may have a resolution of 800 x 600 which means 800 pixels (dots) going across horizontaly and 600 pixels going down vertically."
"TV engineers, however, only speak about TV resolutions in terms of the number of lines going across not down! Why? Because all TV's have exactly the same amount of lines going down, but not all TV's have the same amount of discernable dots going across. For example, an American TV picture will always scan exactly 480 lines down, but the number of dots going across will always depend on the quality of the TV and the signal broadcast to it. A VHS video will only offer about 210 dots across while a TV station may offer about 330 dots across..."
--------------
And I'd like to add that the alternating scan makes the picture that much more abysmal in terms of pixel resolution comparisons. The best comparison that can be made is 320x240, since all of the horizontal dots are scanned on each line, but only half of the vertical lines are scanned (per scan).
This is true for CRT but for LCD which most are using here the computer analogy holds true.
Also, CRT's can be made to scan at higher resolution but of coarse the NTSC signal has a limited number of scan lines. That is what line doublers were used for.
Hezz
Also, CRT's can be made to scan at higher resolution but of coarse the NTSC signal has a limited number of scan lines. That is what line doublers were used for.
Hezz
Home Theater Screens
Joining in on the issues of sheets, spray paint and black out cloth. With so much invested in a good quality projector it makes sence to reflect the image from a top quality screen material. Check out http://www.diytheatre.com . We formulated a polymer do-it-yourself projection screen. You have a selection of contrast level as well as a large gain (brightness) level that you control when you build your home theater projector screen. Applied like a projection screen paint but is designed to outperform the best screens on the market with exclusive non-interference pigments explained here: http://www.diytheatre.com/why_diy_movie_screens/performance_details.htm#Anchor-DIY-49575 . This screen material is only sold at the above internet site. If you have questions we will be glad to help.
Joining in on the issues of sheets, spray paint and black out cloth. With so much invested in a good quality projector it makes sence to reflect the image from a top quality screen material. Check out http://www.diytheatre.com . We formulated a polymer do-it-yourself projection screen. You have a selection of contrast level as well as a large gain (brightness) level that you control when you build your home theater projector screen. Applied like a projection screen paint but is designed to outperform the best screens on the market with exclusive non-interference pigments explained here: http://www.diytheatre.com/why_diy_movie_screens/performance_details.htm#Anchor-DIY-49575 . This screen material is only sold at the above internet site. If you have questions we will be glad to help.
Has anyone tried this? I was told if you take a very thin white sheet (bedsheet or other) and streatch it so that you can semi see through it, then set it in front of a solid black material, that it will boost your contrast. giving good blacks, and not effecting whites. Sounds ify to me, but might give it a shot anyway.
It sounds iffy because it makes no sense. You can't have something that reflects "white" well but doesn't relfect the background light seeping into your black areas...which is just a lower intensity of white.
You can use a gray screen to get better black at the expense of your whites. You can also use Sony's new bandpass screen which only responds to three wavelength ranges from projectors.
You can use a gray screen to get better black at the expense of your whites. You can also use Sony's new bandpass screen which only responds to three wavelength ranges from projectors.
A bed sheet stretched thin would make a terrible projection screen. It would still reflect background light, but would also allow a lot of light to penetrate the sheet (from your projector), which would cut your brightness of the image in half roughly, but then light that had gone through the sheet would bounce off of whatever is behind the sheet, and then back onto the sheet again, giving you a very blurry image. I actually used a bed sheet as my first projection screen, but ultimately it was a waste of a good bedsheet (since I nailed through it) ... blackout material is really the best/cheapest thing to use in my opinion. Perfect balance of contrast and brightness. We carry it at our store, but you can usually get it locally for about the same price.
I like the idea of blackout cloth stretched over a simple frame, but the width of blackout cloth is too small for my projector and I do not believe I can make a seam that would be invisible during projection.
I'm going to try three panels of 1" insulation foamboard, I'm pretty sure I can put those on a light frame and use my spackling, sanding, and painting skills to get a smooth, unbroken surface. Unless anyone else has tried it and failed....
I'm going to try three panels of 1" insulation foamboard, I'm pretty sure I can put those on a light frame and use my spackling, sanding, and painting skills to get a smooth, unbroken surface. Unless anyone else has tried it and failed....
Wal-Mart has a curtain liner that is about 92 inches wide for about $25 I think. If you have a Wal-Mart in your area, I think that would be the way to go - I don't like the idea of seams! We had a projector here that was 10 feet wide, and it used a seam in the middle ... it wasn't terribly distracting actually, but it was also machine-stiched so that there was no texture to it that would cause a shadow.
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