Earl,
Regarding the finish for the Nathan 10, what is the proper way to finish the baffle/waveguide interface? Will we need to simply mask off the waveguide as we undertake the MDF surface preparations and subsequent painting?
I'm very much looking forward to receiving this kit and I personally find the aesthetics quite pleasing. At least for the Nathan 10, the WAF is reasonably high. Perhaps the larger versions may be in my future if I can get a more dedicated space.
Regarding the finish for the Nathan 10, what is the proper way to finish the baffle/waveguide interface? Will we need to simply mask off the waveguide as we undertake the MDF surface preparations and subsequent painting?
I'm very much looking forward to receiving this kit and I personally find the aesthetics quite pleasing. At least for the Nathan 10, the WAF is reasonably high. Perhaps the larger versions may be in my future if I can get a more dedicated space.
Dr Geddes,
I'm interested in the largest waveguide / kit (either) that you decide to make and can ship overseas. I am in large agreement with bigger is better and I have no problem paying up.
If I could audition the Summas I might abandon my DIY speaker fiascos altogether and pay up for a completed pair. Any notion of what they'd cost to ship half way around the world?
Jeff
I'm interested in the largest waveguide / kit (either) that you decide to make and can ship overseas. I am in large agreement with bigger is better and I have no problem paying up.
If I could audition the Summas I might abandon my DIY speaker fiascos altogether and pay up for a completed pair. Any notion of what they'd cost to ship half way around the world?
Jeff
amiklos said:
Finishing is certainly NOT my expertise, but I would just prime everything with an Epoxy primer and then go from there. An epoxy primer would cover over both the waveguide and the MDF without a problem. There could be issues with other primers and finishes between the two different materials although I have found most materials to work fine on both. The waveguides are polyurethane and I believe that the binder in MDF is polyurethane. SHould be no problem.
peufeu said:
Been there, done that. The foam is not significant enough at phase delay to accomplish the task. It helps though. But cutting a non-round foam plug is harder than breaking up the outside edge.
And I didn't say it would be elliptical. I will make the cabinet just a bit too small and on three side there will be a small dimple in the waveguide edge. Just enough, I suspect, to break up the completely coherent cancellation on axis.
And yes, an elliptical waveguide works too. But that means all kinds of tooling complexities.
Colin said:
Absolutely. On top of that, would it be possible to make a quick chart that shows what components are included in which kit? Such as:
Part a b c d e f g
Kit1 x x x x x x x
Kit2 x x x x x
Kit3 x x x
Also, you mention an alternative set of drivers from Eminence. Can you qualify what the difference would be (besides price)?
Someone emailed me and asked for a review of the Summas.
I posted some info when I first received them, but here's an update.
After having them for a few weeks, there's one thing I notice. What I notice is that they make all of my other speakers sound colored and unnatural.
It's a bit ironic, because I thought the Summa's themselves sounds a bit odd when I first heard them in 2004 at the RMAF. I listened to them for the better part of the weekend. When Lynn Olson auditioned them, I was hanging out in the room. I recall thinking that the treble sounded a bit subdued. It turns out that the treble is correct; it's the other speakers which are screwed up. In a nutshell, conventional dome tweeters can't reproduce high frequencies properly.
Before purchasing the Summas, I bought JBL's knock off from the M Pro series. I've had those for almost two years. In addition, the Yorkville Unity was a serious contender. The Unity was passed up due to it's conventional cabinet; IMHO the cabinet of the Summa is critical to it's amazing imaging. I'm holding onto the JBL M Pros for the moment, as they are an astonishing good deal and possibly the best inexpensive high-efficiency speaker for under $1000. Having said that, the JBLs can't image at all, and the top two octaves are completely AWOL. In that respect, they're like a lot of the inexpensive high efficiency speakers out there. If there's an uncolored high efficiency speaker which covers more than eight octaves out there for under $1000, I'd love to know about it.
Compared to everything else I have, the Summas are in another league entirely. Jaw dropping image combined with massive efficiency. With most speakers I've owned there have been shortcomings. For example my JBLs have no top octave and can't image. I owned a set of JBLs before that which had a sluggish bloated low-end. But I have nothing to complain about with the Summas. (except their size and weight!)
It's also very room-friendly. It's even neighbor-friendly; I've noticed that the high directivity allows me to listen at high levels without disturbing other rooms in the house.
Anyone looking for more info?
I posted some info when I first received them, but here's an update.
After having them for a few weeks, there's one thing I notice. What I notice is that they make all of my other speakers sound colored and unnatural.
It's a bit ironic, because I thought the Summa's themselves sounds a bit odd when I first heard them in 2004 at the RMAF. I listened to them for the better part of the weekend. When Lynn Olson auditioned them, I was hanging out in the room. I recall thinking that the treble sounded a bit subdued. It turns out that the treble is correct; it's the other speakers which are screwed up. In a nutshell, conventional dome tweeters can't reproduce high frequencies properly.
Before purchasing the Summas, I bought JBL's knock off from the M Pro series. I've had those for almost two years. In addition, the Yorkville Unity was a serious contender. The Unity was passed up due to it's conventional cabinet; IMHO the cabinet of the Summa is critical to it's amazing imaging. I'm holding onto the JBL M Pros for the moment, as they are an astonishing good deal and possibly the best inexpensive high-efficiency speaker for under $1000. Having said that, the JBLs can't image at all, and the top two octaves are completely AWOL. In that respect, they're like a lot of the inexpensive high efficiency speakers out there. If there's an uncolored high efficiency speaker which covers more than eight octaves out there for under $1000, I'd love to know about it.
Compared to everything else I have, the Summas are in another league entirely. Jaw dropping image combined with massive efficiency. With most speakers I've owned there have been shortcomings. For example my JBLs have no top octave and can't image. I owned a set of JBLs before that which had a sluggish bloated low-end. But I have nothing to complain about with the Summas. (except their size and weight!)
It's also very room-friendly. It's even neighbor-friendly; I've noticed that the high directivity allows me to listen at high levels without disturbing other rooms in the house.
Anyone looking for more info?
Patrick Bateman said:
Thanks for the update reveiw .I have been reading this thread from the start .
I have other drivers in there box's for another speaker project and I keep coming back to this thread .
Patrick do you also have the subs that are needed because this is what I might hard to fit into the room .
Also I would be interested in the abbey+ due to shipping might as well look at the better option .The nathan10's are so bloody tempting .
Cheers.
With the Summas, I haven't set up any subs (yet.)
After I relegated the JBLs to the guest bedroom in my house, I hooked them up to an 8" sub powered with a 1000w plate amp, and it's actually quite satisfying. It seems a bit silly to use an 8" sub with a 15" mid, but it works. At such low frequencies it's all about displacement, and with 1000watts on tap, I can move a lot of air.
IMHO, your money is better spent on the Summas then a boutique subwoofer.
After I relegated the JBLs to the guest bedroom in my house, I hooked them up to an 8" sub powered with a 1000w plate amp, and it's actually quite satisfying. It seems a bit silly to use an 8" sub with a 15" mid, but it works. At such low frequencies it's all about displacement, and with 1000watts on tap, I can move a lot of air.
IMHO, your money is better spent on the Summas then a boutique subwoofer.
Patrick Bateman said:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. For subs its all about number not size. I might even downgrade my own subs to 10" ones as I have way more low end capability than I need. Yes the Summas do handle a great deal of the low end, most of it in fact, all the subs do is smooth it out and extend it a little bit. Its an improvement, but not a revolation.
Music and quality is all about midrange, highs and lows add finesce, but a poor midrange (500 - 5000) cannot be cured - it needs to be replaced.
Earl, did you see my previous post?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1537066#post1537066
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1537066#post1537066
Earl, I have an idea/suggestion. Two options:
1. Nathan and Abbey + kits as you are now doing
2. Partial kits including everything but the box and waveguide (12/12, 15/15, 15/18)
It's much less effort for you since you don't have to do the waveguide, which is most of the work. Most will opt for the kits with the waveguides, but then you may also sell a few more to those who would otherwise just take a crack at it themselves, with a good chance of stuffing up the crossover, and miss out on getting the result that these reviews are telling us about. This would seem an easier option to cater to more people, since you can't practically make complete kits to cover all those options. It would also be good for those outside US. You could structure your pricing so this doesn't detract from selling the complete kits. Just a thought.
I have a friend who is a home theatre installer. I've described the kit, and he is very interested for his own system. (Nathan x3, with everything but the box). He may be interested in more of them for his customers also later on.
What is the status of Nathan kits? Once payment is made, do you have an expected time they will be ready to ship? Rough estimate? Location Melbourne, Australia.
I have some questions for Earl, but rather than clutter up this thread I've made a new thread here:
Summa kit discussion thread
1. Nathan and Abbey + kits as you are now doing
2. Partial kits including everything but the box and waveguide (12/12, 15/15, 15/18)
It's much less effort for you since you don't have to do the waveguide, which is most of the work. Most will opt for the kits with the waveguides, but then you may also sell a few more to those who would otherwise just take a crack at it themselves, with a good chance of stuffing up the crossover, and miss out on getting the result that these reviews are telling us about. This would seem an easier option to cater to more people, since you can't practically make complete kits to cover all those options. It would also be good for those outside US. You could structure your pricing so this doesn't detract from selling the complete kits. Just a thought.
I have a friend who is a home theatre installer. I've described the kit, and he is very interested for his own system. (Nathan x3, with everything but the box). He may be interested in more of them for his customers also later on.
What is the status of Nathan kits? Once payment is made, do you have an expected time they will be ready to ship? Rough estimate? Location Melbourne, Australia.
I have some questions for Earl, but rather than clutter up this thread I've made a new thread here:
Summa kit discussion thread
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