Then I would rather buy a commercial projector. $6000 worth of LED is like 15 years supply of projector bulbs.
Alternate light source
Has anyone checked into the SoLux Lamps? They can be found here
www.usalight.COM
It looks to me as though it might be a workable solution.For under $10.00 each.
MR16 (12 Volt) (tungsten-halogen based) Voltage... 12 volts Wattage ... 50 watts Lifetime ... 3000 hours IR Reduction ... 58% UVB ... 2.36 microwatts/lumen
UVA ... 39.63 microwatts/lumen Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) ... 4700K Color Rendering Index (CRI) ... 99.35 Beamspreads ...10°, 17°, 24°, & 36°
degrees
Candle Power (CP) Chart per/sport angle
...10°...17°...24°...36°
8,081 3,998 2,306 1,390
Thanks
Has anyone checked into the SoLux Lamps? They can be found here
www.usalight.COM
It looks to me as though it might be a workable solution.For under $10.00 each.
MR16 (12 Volt) (tungsten-halogen based) Voltage... 12 volts Wattage ... 50 watts Lifetime ... 3000 hours IR Reduction ... 58% UVB ... 2.36 microwatts/lumen
UVA ... 39.63 microwatts/lumen Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) ... 4700K Color Rendering Index (CRI) ... 99.35 Beamspreads ...10°, 17°, 24°, & 36°
degrees
Candle Power (CP) Chart per/sport angle
...10°...17°...24°...36°
8,081 3,998 2,306 1,390
Thanks
Yeah, I've just bought an MR16 75W, 12V Dichroic lamp, which apparently removes most of the IR but reflects most of the visible light. All I need now is a 75W 12V power supply - will the one inside my PC work? I guess if you don't hear from me from a while you'll know it doesn't, and I've blown up my PC! 🙄
Does anybody know if dichroic bulbs (which you would presumably cool using a fan as well) transmit a low enough amount of heat to be useful with LCD? I'll try it on my cheap 2" Casio which is all I've got right now 🙁
Does anybody know if dichroic bulbs (which you would presumably cool using a fan as well) transmit a low enough amount of heat to be useful with LCD? I'll try it on my cheap 2" Casio which is all I've got right now 🙁
SoLux Lamps
Hey Scot_Lad
Caution on the computer power supply
Not real sure it will handel that load.
But let me know about the SoLux Bulb.
Am wondering now if I should order one or wait till you post your results.
Good luck with the power.
Tim
Hey Scot_Lad
Caution on the computer power supply
Not real sure it will handel that load.
But let me know about the SoLux Bulb.
Am wondering now if I should order one or wait till you post your results.
Good luck with the power.
Tim
MR16 sources
In response to Tim's suggestion to look at the MR16 lamps. You don't want to just look at the CandlePower chart. While that may look impressive, you need to counter that with the beam spread and the throw distance. While the 10Degree lamp looks fantastic light output wise, if you look at its foot-candle versus beam spread chart, you'll see it doesn't produce a very large and bright image, and it just gets dimmer as you go with the wider lamps. You'll get an image, it'll just be dim and probably small. Sorry to be such a spoil-sport, but that's the way it is. (Trust me on this, I'm learning this stuff in theatrical applications)
In response to Tim's suggestion to look at the MR16 lamps. You don't want to just look at the CandlePower chart. While that may look impressive, you need to counter that with the beam spread and the throw distance. While the 10Degree lamp looks fantastic light output wise, if you look at its foot-candle versus beam spread chart, you'll see it doesn't produce a very large and bright image, and it just gets dimmer as you go with the wider lamps. You'll get an image, it'll just be dim and probably small. Sorry to be such a spoil-sport, but that's the way it is. (Trust me on this, I'm learning this stuff in theatrical applications)
Hi guys, the color temp looks low on the SoLux, but it's worth a try. Any heat that can be removed is a good thing!
Do you know the life span?
Do you know the life span?
vdi_nenna: go to www.slickdeals.net they said circuitcity has 1.3mp digital camera for $60 after rebate, get one and show us the result from your experiments
LCD is waiting for me when I get back from college (wednesday). 8000 lumen projector sitting beside me. I really need you guy's (and gal's?) help though in searching for some kinda filter to reduce the IR emissions from my projector though, unless my LCD happens to be NASA or Military grade build. I could freaking cook a hotdog in my projector.
Myren
Myren
oh yeah, version 2.0 is already on the drawing board. Should be interseting. Looking at using a 20 inch fresnel, if I can find one. Should have stepper motors on rails controlling how far apart all the lenses are. I've got designs on a makeshift triangulater based off of pretty much a laser pointer.
All in all, I'm hoping to hook it up to my home automation network so I can just say how big I want the image, and have it adjust the lenses as appropriate to produce the desired effects.
I'm having a bit of trouble with the optics though, namely in choosing appropriate focal lengths for everything. I'm a decent ray tracer, and I can set up a non zoom setup, but making a zoom setup is hard as freaking hell. I'm not even sure if I need this third element at all.
The other problem is the light source. my 8000 lumen projector, just by itself, is bright, but I can already see myself having difficulties with light power, even though I'm not even running anything. I was thinking of possibly (please dont hurt me, and keep reading) going with a quad 500 watt metal halide setup. But I realized I dont have the power on tap, and I'm going the wrong way about solving a problem.
Currently, only about 1/10 the light being generated from the light bulb is going through the fresnel at all. Now, lining the case with mirrors wouldnt help, because the light would just bounce around randomly, pass through the fresnel and go all sorts of random directions. For those that remember physics, what I really need to find a parabolic mirror or something vaguely close to. I should be able to eliminate the fresnel if I set it right, since a parabollic mirror should produce paralle rays when a light is placed at the focal point. I was actually thinking perhaps a large spotlight shell might work well. Problem is, very few spotlights will gimme a beam with 8 inch radius right at the appature, which is what I need.
Anyone know a good source for optic needs? I havent even started looking at costs yet, and that should ultimately be the best determinance of the path I take.
All in all, I'm hoping to hook it up to my home automation network so I can just say how big I want the image, and have it adjust the lenses as appropriate to produce the desired effects.
I'm having a bit of trouble with the optics though, namely in choosing appropriate focal lengths for everything. I'm a decent ray tracer, and I can set up a non zoom setup, but making a zoom setup is hard as freaking hell. I'm not even sure if I need this third element at all.
The other problem is the light source. my 8000 lumen projector, just by itself, is bright, but I can already see myself having difficulties with light power, even though I'm not even running anything. I was thinking of possibly (please dont hurt me, and keep reading) going with a quad 500 watt metal halide setup. But I realized I dont have the power on tap, and I'm going the wrong way about solving a problem.
Currently, only about 1/10 the light being generated from the light bulb is going through the fresnel at all. Now, lining the case with mirrors wouldnt help, because the light would just bounce around randomly, pass through the fresnel and go all sorts of random directions. For those that remember physics, what I really need to find a parabolic mirror or something vaguely close to. I should be able to eliminate the fresnel if I set it right, since a parabollic mirror should produce paralle rays when a light is placed at the focal point. I was actually thinking perhaps a large spotlight shell might work well. Problem is, very few spotlights will gimme a beam with 8 inch radius right at the appature, which is what I need.
Anyone know a good source for optic needs? I havent even started looking at costs yet, and that should ultimately be the best determinance of the path I take.
10.000 lumens, it's come from my humble experiment and
from reading product data, like this:
http://www.peclamp.com/pecmh2.htm
I used halogen type lamp (floodlight, 300W/220V, 5000 lumens,color temperature 3000degrees Kelvin, 2000 hrs life), output is very dim and some kind of yellowish color. (The screen is 15 feet from the projector).
I think the lamp-lumens was eated up by not so good lamp reflector (schaef explain it clearly, thank's), LCD itself, the lens and the box, due to the nature of basic experiment like this.
So I think the true projector light output was around 200-300 lumens.
Myren proofed that too, if I'm right.
IMHO, don't waste our money and time to find and use lamp with spec: below 10.000 lumens and below 5000 degrees Kelvin light temperature (daylight temperature is 5600 d.K).
The problem with that lamp-spec is, it'll generated so much heat!
Myren,
use this formula to find correct lens:
I used it with Microsoft Excel, so I can play with input number, to get different f lens, or vice versa.
input (in inch):
lcd= LCD diagonal width
sdist= image or screen distance from the lens
img=image diagonal width you want
formula (in inch):
find (ldist)=LCD to lens distance =(lcd*sdist)/img
find f lens= (sdist*ldist)/(sdist+ldist)
if you want to play with zoom lens at least you need 3 convex lens, with the same formula: img lens#1 become lcd lens#2 and img lens#2 become lcd lens#3.
BTW, what type of lamp do you use? 8000 lumens you mentioned, is that lamp-lumens or projector lumens?
Metal-halide lamp you're going to use is better, because
the color temp. will reach around 5000 d.K, but again it'll depend from the lamp-lumens, to get bright enough image on the screen.
Someone, somewhere I forgot, wrote that using 2 layer of glass in front of the lamp with 1 inch spacing between glasses and blow the gap with powerfull fan might help to reduce heat, worth to try.
goodluck.
from reading product data, like this:
http://www.peclamp.com/pecmh2.htm
I used halogen type lamp (floodlight, 300W/220V, 5000 lumens,color temperature 3000degrees Kelvin, 2000 hrs life), output is very dim and some kind of yellowish color. (The screen is 15 feet from the projector).
I think the lamp-lumens was eated up by not so good lamp reflector (schaef explain it clearly, thank's), LCD itself, the lens and the box, due to the nature of basic experiment like this.
So I think the true projector light output was around 200-300 lumens.
Myren proofed that too, if I'm right.
IMHO, don't waste our money and time to find and use lamp with spec: below 10.000 lumens and below 5000 degrees Kelvin light temperature (daylight temperature is 5600 d.K).
The problem with that lamp-spec is, it'll generated so much heat!
Myren,
use this formula to find correct lens:
I used it with Microsoft Excel, so I can play with input number, to get different f lens, or vice versa.
input (in inch):
lcd= LCD diagonal width
sdist= image or screen distance from the lens
img=image diagonal width you want
formula (in inch):
find (ldist)=LCD to lens distance =(lcd*sdist)/img
find f lens= (sdist*ldist)/(sdist+ldist)
if you want to play with zoom lens at least you need 3 convex lens, with the same formula: img lens#1 become lcd lens#2 and img lens#2 become lcd lens#3.
BTW, what type of lamp do you use? 8000 lumens you mentioned, is that lamp-lumens or projector lumens?
Metal-halide lamp you're going to use is better, because
the color temp. will reach around 5000 d.K, but again it'll depend from the lamp-lumens, to get bright enough image on the screen.
Someone, somewhere I forgot, wrote that using 2 layer of glass in front of the lamp with 1 inch spacing between glasses and blow the gap with powerfull fan might help to reduce heat, worth to try.
goodluck.
raw heat is only part of the problem i think. i'm thinking the energy of the light itself, particularly in the near red infrared, is going to be dangerous, even though its technically lower energy than UV style light. I think conventional cooling alone is of questionable merit. More drastic measures are needed, perhaps.
The bulb is rated for 18000 lumens, and the projector hypothetically for 8000. Skeptical about the second. I'm thinking repolishing the mirror might help a little, but I'm still disappointed. I was hoping 8000 would be "blindingly bright" range, even when reflected closely off a nice white wall. Not so much.
The bulbs got a pretty good color temp. Still too warm to be perfect, but I was actually pleasantly suprised, having expected far worse.
I'm thinking makeshift screen will help things out infinitely. A real one would kick ***, but i doubt even the miracles of ebay can help me procure this. Anyone know a CHEAP way to turn a 12 foot by 8 foot area into something resembling a screen? Special paint? Special sheets?
Out of curiosity, WTF is with projectors? How can a little thing like that crank out 1000 lumens with a 250 watt bulb? theres simply not enough light.
elaborate on zoom lense setup? I think
Myren
The bulb is rated for 18000 lumens, and the projector hypothetically for 8000. Skeptical about the second. I'm thinking repolishing the mirror might help a little, but I'm still disappointed. I was hoping 8000 would be "blindingly bright" range, even when reflected closely off a nice white wall. Not so much.
The bulbs got a pretty good color temp. Still too warm to be perfect, but I was actually pleasantly suprised, having expected far worse.
I'm thinking makeshift screen will help things out infinitely. A real one would kick ***, but i doubt even the miracles of ebay can help me procure this. Anyone know a CHEAP way to turn a 12 foot by 8 foot area into something resembling a screen? Special paint? Special sheets?
Out of curiosity, WTF is with projectors? How can a little thing like that crank out 1000 lumens with a 250 watt bulb? theres simply not enough light.
elaborate on zoom lense setup? I think
Myren
Light relief from LCDs
Well, I'm getting more and more confused with lenses and bulbs and the like, reckon I'm gonna try something drastic...
I got interested in this projector stuff when I got a three-tube CRT projector, which doesn't work. But it's not too far off being fixable, even though it's the size of a small car. 🙄
Don't know how good this would be, but if I got it working it would happily hang from the roof in dad's garage, which can apparently hold a car engine, although if you saw the size of this thing you'd think it was heavier than a car engine. I'm trying to convince him to convert the garage into a cinema!! It's perfect for it, and the car can live on the drive. Anyway I digress, the point is, I have the lenses from the projector, which could be used with other CRTs if this isn't fixable.
Out of curiosity, the projector is a BEA Lumocolor 4000, has anyone heard of it or know anything about it? The entire internet is devoid of information on it.
The good thing with a 3-tube system is, you get three times the brightness of one screen, without complex mirrors and stuff. I know real projectors have special high-brightness CRTs but this isn't plausible. And anyway, I'm planning on using my projector, of whatever origin, in a pitch black room with the shutters closed.
Any opinions on this?
Cheers,
Chris.
Well, I'm getting more and more confused with lenses and bulbs and the like, reckon I'm gonna try something drastic...
I got interested in this projector stuff when I got a three-tube CRT projector, which doesn't work. But it's not too far off being fixable, even though it's the size of a small car. 🙄
Don't know how good this would be, but if I got it working it would happily hang from the roof in dad's garage, which can apparently hold a car engine, although if you saw the size of this thing you'd think it was heavier than a car engine. I'm trying to convince him to convert the garage into a cinema!! It's perfect for it, and the car can live on the drive. Anyway I digress, the point is, I have the lenses from the projector, which could be used with other CRTs if this isn't fixable.
Out of curiosity, the projector is a BEA Lumocolor 4000, has anyone heard of it or know anything about it? The entire internet is devoid of information on it.
The good thing with a 3-tube system is, you get three times the brightness of one screen, without complex mirrors and stuff. I know real projectors have special high-brightness CRTs but this isn't plausible. And anyway, I'm planning on using my projector, of whatever origin, in a pitch black room with the shutters closed.
Any opinions on this?
Cheers,
Chris.
Hey Chris,
I thought about picking up 3 black and white 4-5" tvs and using red, green, blue jels and trying to murge the image, like a CRT projector, but I have no idea how that would look like.
Also, the image would be reversed, unless there is a way to flip the image...😕 . That might work with rear projection, because they require a mirror to bounce the image.
Just a thought.
BTW-
I did some more work last night on my projector. I got a better image this time around. At close range to the screen, the LED light source isn't too bad, but not great. More would be better, or doubling them. That would be 100 for me. Still cheaper then a replacement bulb for a commercial projector.
Also, I learned that there is much light loss to the rear of the light cluster. I placed a reflective surface to the back of the cluster and it brightened up the image somewhat.
Still, my biggest problem is getting the 8.4" image of the LCD through the lense.
What I'm going to do is find a light tracer and find out what kind of lenses they use.
Also, have you guys seen those projected christmas lights that project Santa and snow men? If those things can project an image...why the hell can't I!!! 😉
The lense I'm using was created for CRTs, one CRT that would be close to the lense.
In other words, if the LCD was 4" across or less, this would work.
Don't give up!
Vince
I thought about picking up 3 black and white 4-5" tvs and using red, green, blue jels and trying to murge the image, like a CRT projector, but I have no idea how that would look like.
Also, the image would be reversed, unless there is a way to flip the image...😕 . That might work with rear projection, because they require a mirror to bounce the image.
Just a thought.
BTW-
I did some more work last night on my projector. I got a better image this time around. At close range to the screen, the LED light source isn't too bad, but not great. More would be better, or doubling them. That would be 100 for me. Still cheaper then a replacement bulb for a commercial projector.
Also, I learned that there is much light loss to the rear of the light cluster. I placed a reflective surface to the back of the cluster and it brightened up the image somewhat.
Still, my biggest problem is getting the 8.4" image of the LCD through the lense.
What I'm going to do is find a light tracer and find out what kind of lenses they use.
Also, have you guys seen those projected christmas lights that project Santa and snow men? If those things can project an image...why the hell can't I!!! 😉
The lense I'm using was created for CRTs, one CRT that would be close to the lense.
In other words, if the LCD was 4" across or less, this would work.
Don't give up!
Vince
vdi_nenna, what kind of LCD are you using? are you using one of those LCD projector panel? How far away are you putting your projector away from your image and how big is your projected image right now? I think your route is fine, all you need is a lot of LEDs. Also, is light's intensity inverse proportional to the distance's squure? So if you pull your projected 2x the distance, you need 4x amount of LEDs.
Vince,
maybe I can help you, but I need to know what is focal length (f) of your lens?
What is the distance between the lens and your screen?
You need at least 2 lenses to see the whole image from 8,4" LCD display.
What is focal length (f) of your second lens?
It'll work like this:
The first lens will produce reduced image from the LCD to at least same as diagonal size of your second lens diameter.
The second lens will projected reduced image to the screen.
I am going to use with the same setup:
LCD display 14" diagonal size.
First lens is : DIA= 7,25 cm f=4,446 cm.
Second lens is: DIA=7,5 cm f=9cm
Did you use lenses from Surplusshed (# L1314 GLASS ASPHERIC CONDENSER LENS and TV PROJ. LENS (is it # L1813 ?)).
If yes, please take a look at my earlier post:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=281&perpage=15&pagenumber=16
maybe I can help you, but I need to know what is focal length (f) of your lens?
What is the distance between the lens and your screen?
You need at least 2 lenses to see the whole image from 8,4" LCD display.
What is focal length (f) of your second lens?
It'll work like this:
The first lens will produce reduced image from the LCD to at least same as diagonal size of your second lens diameter.
The second lens will projected reduced image to the screen.
I am going to use with the same setup:
LCD display 14" diagonal size.
First lens is : DIA= 7,25 cm f=4,446 cm.
Second lens is: DIA=7,5 cm f=9cm
Did you use lenses from Surplusshed (# L1314 GLASS ASPHERIC CONDENSER LENS and TV PROJ. LENS (is it # L1813 ?)).
If yes, please take a look at my earlier post:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=281&perpage=15&pagenumber=16
Ok! Now we're getting somewhere!
Gunawan W,
To answer your first question- I don't know the focal length of the projector lense I have now. But, I'm sure it is very short, because the LCD screen (8.4") must be placed almost in contact with the rear of the projection lense.
Somehow, I missed your original post. Rereading it, it answers all my questions
-------------------------------------------------------
😉
Type-E, it's a Sharp 8.4" LCD with s-video, composite and a computer video type input.
The distances were 3 feet and then 7 feet. The image size is difficult to determine, because the whole image is not showing.
It's a circle image. At 7 feet, i estimate the image being 5 feet across.
I have 2 cheap sources for lenses here in the US.
www.surplusshed.com www.allelectronics.com For all electronics, look for the on-line store yellow icon
In the frame of the web page, you'll find a list of products for sale.
Thanks!
Vince
Gunawan W,
To answer your first question- I don't know the focal length of the projector lense I have now. But, I'm sure it is very short, because the LCD screen (8.4") must be placed almost in contact with the rear of the projection lense.
Somehow, I missed your original post. Rereading it, it answers all my questions
-------------------------------------------------------
😉
Type-E, it's a Sharp 8.4" LCD with s-video, composite and a computer video type input.
The distances were 3 feet and then 7 feet. The image size is difficult to determine, because the whole image is not showing.
It's a circle image. At 7 feet, i estimate the image being 5 feet across.
I have 2 cheap sources for lenses here in the US.
www.surplusshed.com www.allelectronics.com For all electronics, look for the on-line store yellow icon
In the frame of the web page, you'll find a list of products for sale.
Thanks!
Vince
I would be careful of any quick fixes. You can find lots of places on the internet which will sell you a "100 inch TV" for around $10. As far as I can see, it's just a fresnel lens which is placed in front of your computer monitor, and I can't seen how the picture from that is any good on your wall. In any case, it would surely have to involve a huge bulky setup or your monitor being close to the wall.
Mind you, it is only £7, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try it out. Not me though!
Mind you, it is only £7, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try it out. Not me though!
100" tv rip off
Hello,
I have been following this thread since the beginning. Kinda pigybacking off everyone's ideas. I saw the thread about the 100" television and I had to reply. I am one of the unfortunate people that have purchased one of these. all it is is a fresnel lense and plans to build a projection box(i could come up with better plans myself). The picture quality is not very good. It is very dark. You must have a pitch black room. It projects the image from your tv through the lense so you can tell right there that you will have a dark image. The box itself is very bulky. The people that sell these recomend using between a thirteen and a nineteen inch tv. To get an estimate of how big it will be take your tv and add a foot and a half to two feet to the front. if your using a 19" this could get pretty large. I would not recomend this. but if you want to just mess around with it, it will project a 100" image as promised. The only good thing that came from this project is that it is what led me to finding this thread. Keep up the good work.
Chris
Hello,
I have been following this thread since the beginning. Kinda pigybacking off everyone's ideas. I saw the thread about the 100" television and I had to reply. I am one of the unfortunate people that have purchased one of these. all it is is a fresnel lense and plans to build a projection box(i could come up with better plans myself). The picture quality is not very good. It is very dark. You must have a pitch black room. It projects the image from your tv through the lense so you can tell right there that you will have a dark image. The box itself is very bulky. The people that sell these recomend using between a thirteen and a nineteen inch tv. To get an estimate of how big it will be take your tv and add a foot and a half to two feet to the front. if your using a 19" this could get pretty large. I would not recomend this. but if you want to just mess around with it, it will project a 100" image as promised. The only good thing that came from this project is that it is what led me to finding this thread. Keep up the good work.
Chris
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