I've read on another Forum that the X1 is a remarkably good little projector for the money. And with prices now down to the low $900 range I'm wondering how much sense it makes to bother with the DIY approach (the personal satisfaction of DIY notwithstanding). The X1 can offer instant gratification (open the box, plug & play!) in a very lite weight and compact proffessionaly finished unit...with a warranty!
If I go ahead with my DIY plans, I'll end up spending $500 - $600 for a custom housing with 15" NEC 1560M stripped, 250w MH w/ballast kit, triplet lens, frasnel, etc, etc. And if I screw up the LCD during monitor deconstruction, it'll cost me another $250 +
Space is very limited in my Apt. so ceiling mount is a must, which kinda rules out the cheaper OHP DIY route.
I've almost convinced myself to go with the X1 except I have no first hand expierience as to how the picture quality of an X1 is going to compare to a well made DIY w/15" XGA. I know the NEC 1560M has better resolution than the 840 x 680 of the X1 but current owners of the InFocus claim that it has an amazing picture quality.
I'm hoping some of the more expierenced guys here may have some opinions based on first hand comparisons of the X1 Vs: DIY or similar?
Oh, and I know about the high cost of bulb replacement in OEM proj. but it will take me about 2yrs. to burn thru 3000hrs and by that time I'm guessing bulb prices will have come down and I'd probably be looking to trade up to better technology anyway.
If I go ahead with my DIY plans, I'll end up spending $500 - $600 for a custom housing with 15" NEC 1560M stripped, 250w MH w/ballast kit, triplet lens, frasnel, etc, etc. And if I screw up the LCD during monitor deconstruction, it'll cost me another $250 +
Space is very limited in my Apt. so ceiling mount is a must, which kinda rules out the cheaper OHP DIY route.
I've almost convinced myself to go with the X1 except I have no first hand expierience as to how the picture quality of an X1 is going to compare to a well made DIY w/15" XGA. I know the NEC 1560M has better resolution than the 840 x 680 of the X1 but current owners of the InFocus claim that it has an amazing picture quality.
I'm hoping some of the more expierenced guys here may have some opinions based on first hand comparisons of the X1 Vs: DIY or similar?
Oh, and I know about the high cost of bulb replacement in OEM proj. but it will take me about 2yrs. to burn thru 3000hrs and by that time I'm guessing bulb prices will have come down and I'd probably be looking to trade up to better technology anyway.
😱 Never mind. I just found this thread which pretty much covers it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15539&highlight=InFocus
I swear I did a search before I started the thread but X1 won't bring any results since it's less than 3 characters. Anyways I dug a little deeper and discovered the thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15539&highlight=InFocus
I swear I did a search before I started the thread but X1 won't bring any results since it's less than 3 characters. Anyways I dug a little deeper and discovered the thread.
It has been my experence that DIY has many acspects in the world of home theater--you are not cheaping simply caus you buy a projector. My opinion is to go for the X1--it was a contast ratio of 2000:1 (most DIYs today are not even up to 400:1) and it has built in DCDi scaling and supports HDTV. In the end I thought about a DIY projector, but then I got a good deal on a projector and glad I got it ever since! I have time to work on my HTPC/ Jp-1 remote/ HDTV / speakers and all that good stuff.
mikejz84 said:
My frame of mind exactly. I've got too many other unfinished projects going on right now to start another one.
Interesting that you mention the 2000:1 CR. Even the multi-thousand dollar projectors that I've seen don't seem to come even close to that, infact 400:1 and 500:1 seem to be very common, so 2000:1 sounds a bit suspect to me. But assuming it's true, it leads me to another question: Are you better off with an SVGA w/2000:1 CR or a native XGA with 400:1?...because there's a few of those out there that are now down to around $1100.
I think the resolution vs. contrast question would probably have to boil down to what you were primarily useing the projector for.
If you use it to play Video games and surf the intranet on your PC and watch very few movies, I would probably say the higher res. lower contrast might be an option to consider. That said, most of the older generation DLP projectors, Infocus LP435z comes to mind, Have a 1X color wheel and usually do not even have the ability to set the image up for optimal home theater performance. Colors are usually not as accurate and the abillity to lower the color temp. is sometimes not present.
I would say that if your primary focus is watching DVD movies,
HDTV or regular cable or dish like I use my stuff for then you would be hard pressed to do better than the X1 for the money.
If you use it to play Video games and surf the intranet on your PC and watch very few movies, I would probably say the higher res. lower contrast might be an option to consider. That said, most of the older generation DLP projectors, Infocus LP435z comes to mind, Have a 1X color wheel and usually do not even have the ability to set the image up for optimal home theater performance. Colors are usually not as accurate and the abillity to lower the color temp. is sometimes not present.
I would say that if your primary focus is watching DVD movies,
HDTV or regular cable or dish like I use my stuff for then you would be hard pressed to do better than the X1 for the money.
well i have done both, diy and have an x1
email me and i can send you a screen shot or two.
keep a couple things in mind
1. the biggest advantage i see in the x1 or any dlp projector is that there is no fear of burn in because there are no lcds
2. the contrast is not really 2000:1, all the shoot outs i read said its more like ~900:1, but that still is awesome.
3. it has two input modes: computer and video
computer will allow higher lumen output (1000) while video is only 500(still not bad)
the projector really shines with a progressive scan dvd player with 3:2 pulldown sending the data to the projector through the computer input, but you can watch tv via video input with the light turned down a bit.
4. digital cable looks great, but even with a hdtv decoder, its scaled and is not true hdtv. this projector supports 480i but believe me thats plenty nice when you actually watch it.
5. rainbows- if you know HOW to look for them you will see them but they arent that annoying. normally when a new freind comes over and sees the projector for the first time they are like"damn this thing is so cool", then i tell them how to look for rainbows, ane they go "wierd, oh well, still looks cool".
diy is cool, x1 is easy and just as cool
email me and i can send you a screen shot or two.
keep a couple things in mind
1. the biggest advantage i see in the x1 or any dlp projector is that there is no fear of burn in because there are no lcds
2. the contrast is not really 2000:1, all the shoot outs i read said its more like ~900:1, but that still is awesome.
3. it has two input modes: computer and video
computer will allow higher lumen output (1000) while video is only 500(still not bad)
the projector really shines with a progressive scan dvd player with 3:2 pulldown sending the data to the projector through the computer input, but you can watch tv via video input with the light turned down a bit.
4. digital cable looks great, but even with a hdtv decoder, its scaled and is not true hdtv. this projector supports 480i but believe me thats plenty nice when you actually watch it.
5. rainbows- if you know HOW to look for them you will see them but they arent that annoying. normally when a new freind comes over and sees the projector for the first time they are like"damn this thing is so cool", then i tell them how to look for rainbows, ane they go "wierd, oh well, still looks cool".
diy is cool, x1 is easy and just as cool
The 2000:1 is measured by the ratio of brightness between a full black and a full white screen.
The 500:1 (ansi) uses not a full black/white screen but a pattern of nine black/white rectangles.
The 500:1 (ansi) uses not a full black/white screen but a pattern of nine black/white rectangles.
Is the X1 damn nice? Yes. If I had the money would I buy one? definetly. But I don't. I am determined to spend around 200 dollars total for this project. I know I won't let 1000 dollars trickle away because I don't have that money to loose.
coincidenctally, I demoed the X1 yesterday. I was very surprised to see that a store in my area had one.
I have a 640x480 projection panel on a 3200lumen overhead. Sure, the X1 was brighter, higher res and had better colors.. But was it enough to make me want to spend $2000 CDN? No way!! I could still see grey blacks, and DLP really bothers me. Not only the rainbows, but the image doesn't seem "real"... Both my brother and I had slight headaches after viewing this projector in a darkened room(and it has a 4x color wheel). WE watched The Fifth Element Superbit, which I happen to have at home.. And I have to say that I won't be buying an X1. If anything, I would pick up a used Sony-HS10 in a year or two.
My .02
I have a 640x480 projection panel on a 3200lumen overhead. Sure, the X1 was brighter, higher res and had better colors.. But was it enough to make me want to spend $2000 CDN? No way!! I could still see grey blacks, and DLP really bothers me. Not only the rainbows, but the image doesn't seem "real"... Both my brother and I had slight headaches after viewing this projector in a darkened room(and it has a 4x color wheel). WE watched The Fifth Element Superbit, which I happen to have at home.. And I have to say that I won't be buying an X1. If anything, I would pick up a used Sony-HS10 in a year or two.
My .02
Also---Look into the Panasonic PT-L200u. It has a native 16x9 resolution, and a 5000 hours bulb---plus it is nearly silent. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ls.asp?EdpNo=543470&Sku=P333-1004 P&CatId=905
Thanks for the input!
I'm thinking that I should demo the X1 along with others like the panasonic, at least to see if I prefer DLP to LCD and wether or not I notice the rainbows. I viewed a low-end Epson Powerlite with DLP but never noticed any rainbows so DLP is probably ok with me.
$1000 is a good chunk of change to me so I'm gonna make sure I get my money's worth. But I would gladly fork it over rather than spend many hours and weekends researching and building a DIY for $500 - $600 and maybe end up with an unsatisfactory image, and not being able to get a refund on it like I would with a new OEM.
I'm thinking that I should demo the X1 along with others like the panasonic, at least to see if I prefer DLP to LCD and wether or not I notice the rainbows. I viewed a low-end Epson Powerlite with DLP but never noticed any rainbows so DLP is probably ok with me.
$1000 is a good chunk of change to me so I'm gonna make sure I get my money's worth. But I would gladly fork it over rather than spend many hours and weekends researching and building a DIY for $500 - $600 and maybe end up with an unsatisfactory image, and not being able to get a refund on it like I would with a new OEM.
Also think about a used Davis DL-450. I got one used for $600 and love it. The CR is a little low, but there are NO rainbows and the image is amazing. Plus it has a 6000 hour bulb and there are some great mods for it out there.
The biggest disadvantage of any of-the-shelf PJ is the costs/hour! I can watch the biggest crap on my diy PJ without thinking about bulb life. And a good diy pj will give you a very nice picture if done right. And no, I dont watch crap on my diy all the time.....
qwkbird said:
Uhhh, you can't get burn in on an LCD either. Only CRTs and plasmas.
I think resolution is a big deal, especially w/ a big display. If your option is SVGA (X1) or XGA (DIY), it's not a major improvement, but still a significant one. I've been looking for a cheap UXGA solution for a while, and if that ever happens, forget about the X1.
mikejz84 said:
I guess that is 5000 hours in lamp saving mode? Its only 2k in normal (700 ansi) mode.
And all quotes are expected bulb life, I've read enough horror stories of bulbs lasting only 200 hours or less.
I have a 'normal' pj myself and I am always hoping the bulb won't blow(its a 2nd hand with unknown hours on the bulb).
Anyway, the res on these low price pj's isn't enough for anything but HT usage (and in the pt-l200's case only 16:9 dvd's, and only for region 1 dvd's; forget 4:3/region 2 and computer)
My diy cost me about $450 with 3 MH bulbs, good for 18000 hours (expected) general use viewing in 950(est.)x768 res.
(And to be honest, i like the picture of my diy more, even though its not nearly as bright)
If you are going for a commercial pj you should wait until the XGA pj's reach the $1000 mark (wont be long now)
ATTN: Lifter and others
you are correct as usual king friday about burn in. i had a brain fart and submitted the incorrect term. i incorrectly refered to image degredation collectively as "burn in". the only reson i even check this forum every now and again is to monitor the quest for the holy grail (UXGA for cheap). untill it is found, ill enjoy my x1.
you are correct as usual king friday about burn in. i had a brain fart and submitted the incorrect term. i incorrectly refered to image degredation collectively as "burn in". the only reson i even check this forum every now and again is to monitor the quest for the holy grail (UXGA for cheap). untill it is found, ill enjoy my x1.
Re: ATTN: Lifter and others
Hey no prob. Your right, LCDs will slowly cook over time. I really thought you meant image burn-in.
Well, like I said in another thread, I'm outta the game for a while. The only thing that would rekindle my interest is all of the following:
A) A pdf datasheet surfaces for either the Dell Ultrasharp Sharp UXGA (unknown model #) or the Dell WUXGA (Samsung LTNU151).
B) Somebody actually tests a larger-than 12.5"x12.5" fresnel and gets the optics sorted out. Also finds them for reasonable $$$.
C) Someone discovers an LCD controller company that is willing to sell to end users for a reasonable price, has a UXGA or WUXGA capable product, has a product that accepts DVI (SV-1600 does not), and actually has a cable/interface kit that will work with said panels.
D) Said panels start selling on ebay for reasonable money.
E) I learn how to work with composites like fiberglass and carbon fiber (the whole wood thing got ridiculous).
What's really discouraged me is the fact that in less than 2 years, there will be so much MASSIVELY improved projection technology available, that's its difficult to put in the time and money for something that will suck very shortly.
Sony's SXRD - Similar to LCD in the fact that it projects light through a transparent display. Only it claims 1920x1200 resolution and a frickin' 3000:1 contrast ratio. Not that you should notice any screen door effect on a display w/ such a high reas, but nevertheless, SXRD is supposed to reduce the space in between pixels DRASTICLY. They claim the improvement is 10 fold over existing LCDs of the same resolution.
OLED - Most of you should know what this is. A cheap, rollable display. Hang it on your wall like a mural. Roll it up and take it with you camping.
Laser Projection - Not too familiar with this, but my uneducated guess is that it's similar to CRT's in the sense that it draws the image- but using lasers. It is supposed to have a sick contrast ratio (much better than CRTs even) and can be as bright as lamp based digital projectors.
Atomic-scale "carbon nanotubes" - in the article Takusama posted here: http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17586
OLED aside, I never heard of any of these until these past two weeks. This really discouraged me from my DIY project.
qwkbird said:
Hey no prob. Your right, LCDs will slowly cook over time. I really thought you meant image burn-in.
Well, like I said in another thread, I'm outta the game for a while. The only thing that would rekindle my interest is all of the following:
A) A pdf datasheet surfaces for either the Dell Ultrasharp Sharp UXGA (unknown model #) or the Dell WUXGA (Samsung LTNU151).
B) Somebody actually tests a larger-than 12.5"x12.5" fresnel and gets the optics sorted out. Also finds them for reasonable $$$.
C) Someone discovers an LCD controller company that is willing to sell to end users for a reasonable price, has a UXGA or WUXGA capable product, has a product that accepts DVI (SV-1600 does not), and actually has a cable/interface kit that will work with said panels.
D) Said panels start selling on ebay for reasonable money.
E) I learn how to work with composites like fiberglass and carbon fiber (the whole wood thing got ridiculous).
What's really discouraged me is the fact that in less than 2 years, there will be so much MASSIVELY improved projection technology available, that's its difficult to put in the time and money for something that will suck very shortly.
Sony's SXRD - Similar to LCD in the fact that it projects light through a transparent display. Only it claims 1920x1200 resolution and a frickin' 3000:1 contrast ratio. Not that you should notice any screen door effect on a display w/ such a high reas, but nevertheless, SXRD is supposed to reduce the space in between pixels DRASTICLY. They claim the improvement is 10 fold over existing LCDs of the same resolution.
OLED - Most of you should know what this is. A cheap, rollable display. Hang it on your wall like a mural. Roll it up and take it with you camping.
Laser Projection - Not too familiar with this, but my uneducated guess is that it's similar to CRT's in the sense that it draws the image- but using lasers. It is supposed to have a sick contrast ratio (much better than CRTs even) and can be as bright as lamp based digital projectors.
Atomic-scale "carbon nanotubes" - in the article Takusama posted here: http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17586
OLED aside, I never heard of any of these until these past two weeks. This really discouraged me from my DIY project.
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