I need a pair of speakers for video editing - albeit other things as well. Before you start throwing the top quality kits out, I am on a tight budget and more so, I want a pair of speakers that isn't excessively large for my current setup - the future holds a great pair of monitors - but that is the future once this career starts paying off.
I asked a local speaker designer and he suggested an enclosure around the Visaton FRS8 drivers. It should be fine, but in my search through images about possibilities of using a smaller or taller enclosure, I discovered Visaton actually have speakers and speaker kits and Speaker enclosure designs - man this is cool.
I like the VOX80 kit since it is small and narrow and will likely buy a kit and build them, however something bother me about them - apart from the fact that I have to import a kit (the electronic bits and driver pieces):
- The port is in the rear
- The tweeter needs to be glued
I suppose the latter isn't really a problem if you use proper glue - well actually I assumed there is no cradle option since I am referring to a nice build thread of someone building a pair and using a front face plate to hold the tweeter in place that covers a large portion of the face of the speaker. Here I rather like what he did and it suits me - part of my speaker need is something that also looks nice - something that someone might ask "What brand of speakers are those and where do you get them"
The port bit is more of a concern since I want the ability to push them right up against a wall on my desk or very close, although this isn't to my understanding ideal for any speaker, but then my room isn't ideal, the placement of the desk isn't ideal etc etc etc. But I still think with a rear port it will make a difference especially if the port can be to the front - which I have inquired from Visaton.
In the meantime, considering the Vox80, what other kits or designs are out there which fall close to the Vox.
- It doesn't have to be multi-way
- As small as possible but with good presence (The Visaton Nano SAT is just too small to my liking) - meaning small desk footprint
- Can be placed close to a wall at the rear
The reason I want to build some speakers is because none of these 2.1 PC speakers from Sound Blaster et al is to my liking mainly cause they have a third enclosure which is the woofer. The 2.0 setups is just silly. The PC market speakers just seem to plastic - which they probably are.
I can see that I'll probably end up with the Vox80 setup, but hope there might be some other kit or design that someone can recommend that comes in at around the same price point - for the kit, not the wood and cutting list etc.
The main thing about the kit is that driver selection is narrow in South Africa - unless you are in the right city and know a little shop - I base my searches of the web and what I can get from RS-Components - which don't include all the drivers for the VOX80 so I'll have to import a kit anyway. Which ever other build you can recommend, being able to get all the parts needed, at least in terms of drivers and driver accessories is essential to keep shipping costs low. That or I'll have to see about asking a guy I know in Oxford (England) about possibly buying a kit for me and mailing it. Might know someone in the USA as well.
Long winded, but I thank you for the advise.
I asked a local speaker designer and he suggested an enclosure around the Visaton FRS8 drivers. It should be fine, but in my search through images about possibilities of using a smaller or taller enclosure, I discovered Visaton actually have speakers and speaker kits and Speaker enclosure designs - man this is cool.
I like the VOX80 kit since it is small and narrow and will likely buy a kit and build them, however something bother me about them - apart from the fact that I have to import a kit (the electronic bits and driver pieces):
- The port is in the rear
- The tweeter needs to be glued
I suppose the latter isn't really a problem if you use proper glue - well actually I assumed there is no cradle option since I am referring to a nice build thread of someone building a pair and using a front face plate to hold the tweeter in place that covers a large portion of the face of the speaker. Here I rather like what he did and it suits me - part of my speaker need is something that also looks nice - something that someone might ask "What brand of speakers are those and where do you get them"
The port bit is more of a concern since I want the ability to push them right up against a wall on my desk or very close, although this isn't to my understanding ideal for any speaker, but then my room isn't ideal, the placement of the desk isn't ideal etc etc etc. But I still think with a rear port it will make a difference especially if the port can be to the front - which I have inquired from Visaton.
In the meantime, considering the Vox80, what other kits or designs are out there which fall close to the Vox.
- It doesn't have to be multi-way
- As small as possible but with good presence (The Visaton Nano SAT is just too small to my liking) - meaning small desk footprint
- Can be placed close to a wall at the rear
The reason I want to build some speakers is because none of these 2.1 PC speakers from Sound Blaster et al is to my liking mainly cause they have a third enclosure which is the woofer. The 2.0 setups is just silly. The PC market speakers just seem to plastic - which they probably are.
I can see that I'll probably end up with the Vox80 setup, but hope there might be some other kit or design that someone can recommend that comes in at around the same price point - for the kit, not the wood and cutting list etc.
The main thing about the kit is that driver selection is narrow in South Africa - unless you are in the right city and know a little shop - I base my searches of the web and what I can get from RS-Components - which don't include all the drivers for the VOX80 so I'll have to import a kit anyway. Which ever other build you can recommend, being able to get all the parts needed, at least in terms of drivers and driver accessories is essential to keep shipping costs low. That or I'll have to see about asking a guy I know in Oxford (England) about possibly buying a kit for me and mailing it. Might know someone in the USA as well.
Long winded, but I thank you for the advise.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Id recommend one of the 'Cheap Trick' kits.
like this:
CT 246
or
Loudspeaker Kit CT 241 by Klang+Ton
Many kits on the site I linked. RS doesnt really stock a lot of speakers. I dont like the Vox80 very much (cant explain quite why, its perhaps just me)
(Caveat: I havent heard any of the kits, but I have some of the drivers they use)
like this:
CT 246
or
Loudspeaker Kit CT 241 by Klang+Ton
Many kits on the site I linked. RS doesnt really stock a lot of speakers. I dont like the Vox80 very much (cant explain quite why, its perhaps just me)
(Caveat: I havent heard any of the kits, but I have some of the drivers they use)
I would go with a bookshelf (4 in wide x 10 in deep x 13 in tall) folded MLTL using a Vifa TC9FD if you can get that driver where you are. Mount the port so that it is on same side as driver. I have made this out of cardboard/foam core and it sounds fantastic. Wood would look and sound even better.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/232778-fostex-fe83en-right-small-box.html#post3427671 Cost of Vifa is only $12 ea and only need one per speaker. No tweeter or crossover needed.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/232778-fostex-fe83en-right-small-box.html#post3427671 Cost of Vifa is only $12 ea and only need one per speaker. No tweeter or crossover needed.
I did some more digging after a easy solution turned to mush.
My needs are as small footprint as possible.
Neutral sound since these are for reference.
Be used in near-field setup.
Stereo speakers.
I still like the VOX80 purely on looks and I think I'll build them in the future for fun, BUT, I found some intriguing designs which all fall in the same footprint really. I was also interested in the HiWave HiBM65c20F drivers cause they go in such small enclosures and have little to none directional sound which could be nice for near field use, but I'm afraid I'll end up with too much of a "cosmopolitan audio" sound - if that makes sense.
Cosmopolitan Sound: The kinda sound that looks good cause the drivers and enclosure (or system) looks better than it sound - not that it sounds bad! Kind of designer speaker for the iPhone kinda thing to show off more than listen to.
Back on topic:
The 'Emoticons' by John Richards.
http://gonecatfishin.net/Emoticons.pdf
The "implementation of John "Zaph" Kutke's W3-871S design" speakers.
Design of Zaph's W3-871S Fullrange Monitors
And Wolf's 'Sophomores'.
“Sophomores” writeup.... - Blogs - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
All three designs looks good, very simple, small, and from the descriptions, sounds like what I am looking for - I'll probably go with the one with apparent more bass - based on reading really. I haven't looked at driver price yet but I already know from searches and seeing on a local forum, I'll have to import what I need - unless I go with a basic enclosure design using ONLY a Visaton FRS8-8 (or -4) - but I'd rather go with a design by those in the know than trying my own thing especially with stuff like "notch" filters, which is...yeah. Again, footprint and I have NO idea how these speakers really sound - no matter which I choose they'll probably blow my socks off cause my only other reference for speakers are 3 way floor-standing units of a friends' and some Sound Blaster 370 2.1 speakers - which sounded fine but it just ins't something I want to pay for.
I think all in all it'll come down to pricing which will include shipping costs considerations. I do kind of like the Wolf design for the simplicity and the driver really looks nice. The Sophomores have a nice mid. The Emoticons have a nice Tweeter. See, really from were I am sitting, this will be a on-paper, opinion, and looks decision, jumbled together with pricing on components and shipping.
Thoughts?
My needs are as small footprint as possible.
Neutral sound since these are for reference.
Be used in near-field setup.
Stereo speakers.
I still like the VOX80 purely on looks and I think I'll build them in the future for fun, BUT, I found some intriguing designs which all fall in the same footprint really. I was also interested in the HiWave HiBM65c20F drivers cause they go in such small enclosures and have little to none directional sound which could be nice for near field use, but I'm afraid I'll end up with too much of a "cosmopolitan audio" sound - if that makes sense.
Cosmopolitan Sound: The kinda sound that looks good cause the drivers and enclosure (or system) looks better than it sound - not that it sounds bad! Kind of designer speaker for the iPhone kinda thing to show off more than listen to.
Back on topic:
The 'Emoticons' by John Richards.
http://gonecatfishin.net/Emoticons.pdf
The "implementation of John "Zaph" Kutke's W3-871S design" speakers.
Design of Zaph's W3-871S Fullrange Monitors
And Wolf's 'Sophomores'.
“Sophomores” writeup.... - Blogs - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
All three designs looks good, very simple, small, and from the descriptions, sounds like what I am looking for - I'll probably go with the one with apparent more bass - based on reading really. I haven't looked at driver price yet but I already know from searches and seeing on a local forum, I'll have to import what I need - unless I go with a basic enclosure design using ONLY a Visaton FRS8-8 (or -4) - but I'd rather go with a design by those in the know than trying my own thing especially with stuff like "notch" filters, which is...yeah. Again, footprint and I have NO idea how these speakers really sound - no matter which I choose they'll probably blow my socks off cause my only other reference for speakers are 3 way floor-standing units of a friends' and some Sound Blaster 370 2.1 speakers - which sounded fine but it just ins't something I want to pay for.
I think all in all it'll come down to pricing which will include shipping costs considerations. I do kind of like the Wolf design for the simplicity and the driver really looks nice. The Sophomores have a nice mid. The Emoticons have a nice Tweeter. See, really from were I am sitting, this will be a on-paper, opinion, and looks decision, jumbled together with pricing on components and shipping.
Thoughts?
Oh yes, xrk971, these look very interesting, although they are 10 inches deep. This is also on my short-list.
I like the Sophmores. Zaphs site is ok too. The TB 871 is good value. I just dont like the Vox80 much, they have far better drivers and kits, and the cheaptrick stuff is incredible value. I really dont think the TB W3s will compete for bass with a dedicated woofer like the W100S8 though. BSC will be even more important with such a narrow baffle.
There's always these, just build your cabinet to the same external width, with the drivers in the same layout with respect to the top and sides of the cabinet and you should be good to go. In other words you can increase the height as much as you want and you could also port them if you desire.
diVine Audio | Pecorino
The RS series of drivers are amazing value for money given their performance and I'd expect them to give far better sound than the vox80.
diVine Audio | Pecorino
The RS series of drivers are amazing value for money given their performance and I'd expect them to give far better sound than the vox80.
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It took me a while to realise "cheaptrick" isn't a matter of speaking in terms of speakers
Does changing the shape of an enclosure change the "speaker" so to speak? Meaning, if one takes a design with a short'ish fat speaker enclosure, and use the exact same components (and port if a port) but make the enclosure tall and narrow whilst keeping the volume the same as well?
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changing dims will change the sound, but there is no reason why you cant switch H W or D. In other words mount the speakers in whichever face you like. It will affect BSC, but if you are using the close to a rear wall it may not be an issue. I would try to keep the dims the same, if you can. Swapping W and D can work well, many do this. Depends if both drivers will fit. The Pecorino that Fifth posted with a large tweeter offset, may not like any change to the offset distance.
For What its worth I like the narrow baffle and deep box look, but For my own high end computer speakers I plan to use a wider box-
For What its worth I like the narrow baffle and deep box look, but For my own high end computer speakers I plan to use a wider box-
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If you preserve the volume and make it tall and skinny and mount the vent tube at one end you will end up with an Accidental MLTL - the topic of the same named thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/231951-accidental-mltl-technique.html. It will reach a lower bass extension than the bass reflex calculation predicts. As the length increases, standing wave resonances are set up and they can be used to enhance bass output.
I think I'd take a totally different approach.
A little while ago, I tried using my Fostex FE126s on their own (they're usually crossed 500Hz to a woofer) in a 1.5L sealed enclosure, with an eq to boost the bass for an f3 of around 50Hz.
They filled a room quite nicely. Didn't go as low as I like (30Hz), but what was there sounded very very good.
For nearfield use, something like that would be ideal IMO. No messing with crossovers, just build a Linkwitz Transform for a 4" FR driver. Aim for ~60Hz extension and you'll be fine to turn it up a little.
Mine were just getting to the point where you can just about feel something in your chest when the amplifier (~15w/ch) clipped. I was sat around 2m away.
I'd say that's enough.
Chris
A little while ago, I tried using my Fostex FE126s on their own (they're usually crossed 500Hz to a woofer) in a 1.5L sealed enclosure, with an eq to boost the bass for an f3 of around 50Hz.
They filled a room quite nicely. Didn't go as low as I like (30Hz), but what was there sounded very very good.
For nearfield use, something like that would be ideal IMO. No messing with crossovers, just build a Linkwitz Transform for a 4" FR driver. Aim for ~60Hz extension and you'll be fine to turn it up a little.
Mine were just getting to the point where you can just about feel something in your chest when the amplifier (~15w/ch) clipped. I was sat around 2m away.
I'd say that's enough.
Chris
Well, sort-off yes. I'm chatting to a local speaker designer/builder and his design all revolve around the FRS8. I asked him about different dimesions other than a short fat box and he gave me two options with graphs very similar (no tuning of the port - whatever that means - haven't read up on tuning of ports yet) audio graphs.
(WxDxH in mm, all refers to internal dimensions)
100x100x450 with a 140mm port tube with 40mm diameter - which is an issue unless I bend the port. I thought of maybe replacing the port tube with, sorry for lack of jargon, wood cavity. Driver is 100mm from the top and port 400mm from the top.
The other option to this is a 65x160x450 with the rest the same - the driver will still fit on the face of the enclosure given I use at least 16mm wood.
The reason I'm still leaning towards the FRS8 is that I can get it easily - no importing of drivers needed. The other thing is I'm visualizing a finish based on both options. I'm thinking of a gloss finish - but not sure if it should be wood finish or flat colour - white, black, charcoal. Wood finish is cool cause it is in a sense less work - or rather fewer different coats of this and that.
I still like the square footprint option but the port tube is an issue then, unless I fire downwards?
I wanted to make some paper boxes to visualize size on my desk. The taller options place the drivers just about chin level on my desk - and if I fire the port down it will increase the high to probably eye level which is a plus I believe.
(WxDxH in mm, all refers to internal dimensions)
100x100x450 with a 140mm port tube with 40mm diameter - which is an issue unless I bend the port. I thought of maybe replacing the port tube with, sorry for lack of jargon, wood cavity. Driver is 100mm from the top and port 400mm from the top.
The other option to this is a 65x160x450 with the rest the same - the driver will still fit on the face of the enclosure given I use at least 16mm wood.
The reason I'm still leaning towards the FRS8 is that I can get it easily - no importing of drivers needed. The other thing is I'm visualizing a finish based on both options. I'm thinking of a gloss finish - but not sure if it should be wood finish or flat colour - white, black, charcoal. Wood finish is cool cause it is in a sense less work - or rather fewer different coats of this and that.
I still like the square footprint option but the port tube is an issue then, unless I fire downwards?
I wanted to make some paper boxes to visualize size on my desk. The taller options place the drivers just about chin level on my desk - and if I fire the port down it will increase the high to probably eye level which is a plus I believe.
@ xrk971.
I'll have to find out where I get that locally - funny I live in the city that is considered the automotive industry, yet finding stuff usually linked to industry is kinda a mission - you tend to spend half a day driving from one business to the next, following up this recommendation and that. Alas.
Thanks again, I did consider the option you gave earlier, but I'll have to import those Fostex drivers and they are also a bit too deep. I was thinking of something like that in the current design instead of a port tube, something like that MLTL to replace the physical tube and then still have the port in the front. Down firing is probably easier.
I decided not to go all out and save some money for later projects where I can splurge a bit - plus I still need to get an amp for the current plans. That and I am just not in the mood right now to import something again since I need to import some shotgun mics as it is and the current exchange rates is making it hurt a little more than usual.
I'll have to find out where I get that locally - funny I live in the city that is considered the automotive industry, yet finding stuff usually linked to industry is kinda a mission - you tend to spend half a day driving from one business to the next, following up this recommendation and that. Alas.
Thanks again, I did consider the option you gave earlier, but I'll have to import those Fostex drivers and they are also a bit too deep. I was thinking of something like that in the current design instead of a port tube, something like that MLTL to replace the physical tube and then still have the port in the front. Down firing is probably easier.
I decided not to go all out and save some money for later projects where I can splurge a bit - plus I still need to get an amp for the current plans. That and I am just not in the mood right now to import something again since I need to import some shotgun mics as it is and the current exchange rates is making it hurt a little more than usual.
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