I have some decent metalworking skills, and a bit of access to some CAD machining stuff. Anyone have any tips for where I can get info on DIY ribbon speaker construction, such as the sorta-kinda-Linaeums that have been featured as of late?
For starters try:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50162&pagenumber=1
AudioXpress sells a book on DIY ribbons.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50162&pagenumber=1
AudioXpress sells a book on DIY ribbons.
I'm looking for more of a "build this, put magnets here, here and here, and add voltage" sort of guide.
Hence, "for dummy".
Hence, "for dummy".
http://home.comcast.net/~hendentures/index_files/Page332.htm
And put out for the book if you're serious.
And put out for the book if you're serious.
I was all set to build a set of 48" ish long ribbons. I even drew up all the pieces in autodesk inventor. I was ready to pull the trigger on about $400 worth of magnets. The guy at Hendentures was a real inspiration
But I was waiting to see some results that showed that a 4 foot long x 1/2" wide ribbon could play down to about 200 Hz or so, so I could cross the thing over to a woofer. I don't want a set of $500 tweeters that don't play down below 1 KHz. the real information content of music is way below that and I'd be listening to my midbass units with minor contributions from the ribbon.
In my searches to try to find a project that showed that such a ribbon response was possible I came across the ZaphAudio website where John does some distortion measurements. The results (which corroborate journal articles) show pretty crappy performance from ribbons.
The combination of spending a lot of time to build a $500 pair of high distortion tweeters and not finding any indication that the $500 tweeter can also be a midrange took the wind out of my sails.
I love my ESL's and their distortion is very low. The ribbons for me would be an experiment to see how close to the ESL performance I could get with a higher dispersion device.
So my goal is to get proof (without me building a set) that a big ribbon can play through the midrange. Then I'm all over building a set.
Sheldon
But I was waiting to see some results that showed that a 4 foot long x 1/2" wide ribbon could play down to about 200 Hz or so, so I could cross the thing over to a woofer. I don't want a set of $500 tweeters that don't play down below 1 KHz. the real information content of music is way below that and I'd be listening to my midbass units with minor contributions from the ribbon.
In my searches to try to find a project that showed that such a ribbon response was possible I came across the ZaphAudio website where John does some distortion measurements. The results (which corroborate journal articles) show pretty crappy performance from ribbons.
The combination of spending a lot of time to build a $500 pair of high distortion tweeters and not finding any indication that the $500 tweeter can also be a midrange took the wind out of my sails.
I love my ESL's and their distortion is very low. The ribbons for me would be an experiment to see how close to the ESL performance I could get with a higher dispersion device.
So my goal is to get proof (without me building a set) that a big ribbon can play through the midrange. Then I'm all over building a set.
Sheldon
Well, cross it higher and be aware that you should make the bass as a dipole line array - and not play too loud
But I will say that a slim ribbon dont have enough power at 200hz anyway
Distortion figures I wouldnt bother about - its kind of like tubeamps - measures awfull but sounds wonderfull
But improperly built it may rattle at higher levels, but thats a different mattter
But I will say that a slim ribbon dont have enough power at 200hz anyway
Distortion figures I wouldnt bother about - its kind of like tubeamps - measures awfull but sounds wonderfull
But improperly built it may rattle at higher levels, but thats a different mattter
I'm thinking that "magnetostatic" speakers seem to be the best combination of performance, price, and ease of construction. However, they require mylar streching, which I am not looking forward to.
ESLs are also nice, but I need something with a bit less high voltage.
Does anyone know how they produced metalized mylar or polypropylene, as for capacitors?
ESLs are also nice, but I need something with a bit less high voltage.
Does anyone know how they produced metalized mylar or polypropylene, as for capacitors?
Spasticteapot said:
I'd rather deal with the wimpy high voltage power supplies than the potentially dangerous insanely strong magnets. Don't let the high voltage scare you, it's just like low voltage only higher. 🙂
Sheldon
tinitus said:
One of the things I'm going for in my newer designs are slim unobtrusive speaker systems. I'm playing with active crossovers, bass lift and such to get high performance out of small packages. I don't find myself sitting in my listening room much anymore, and I'm enjoying music all over the house. This changes my priorities a bit.
I've got a design on paper that uses an XT25 and a pair of Vifa PL18's that are going in a slim floorstanding TL enclosure with built in amplifiers and active XO. Should be quite good, and will live near my pinball machine in the lower level of my house. The entire audio system there will consist of those speakers and a squeezebox.
Sheldon
stokessd said:
I suppose you're right about electrostatics not being that bad - it's just that I don't need something that arcs or attracts dust (or both.)
Neo magnets are no big deal, really - just use plastic tools.
Spasticteapot said:
And by that same token, the ESL's aren't really a big deal. Mine have been plugged in for years now without problems. I've turned them off twice and vacuumed them off. Other than that maintenance, they have been trouble free. I've never been able to arc mine, I don't own enough amplifier to be able to. (stator spacing is about 1/4", that's a lot of distance to arc).
The thing that has me happier about ESL's over the ribbons is that when I build an ESL panel (for the same or less money than a ribbon), I've got an effectively crossoverless driver that is capable of playing full range with a bit of EQ. If I put that same $$$ into a ribbon, I still only get a long tweeter, and I still have to use another driver that covers the entire critical range of music. so I'm really not listening to the ribbon but more the midbass drivers.
I'm actually interested in the B&G planar drivers, the biger ones. I'd love to find a used set to play with. They should be able to run for 200ish Hz up. I don't want to pay $600 each to find out they suck, but I would pay half of that.
Sheldon
stokessd said:
I guess I'll bite the bullet and build an electrostatic speaker set instead.
I wish they were'nt so bleeping expensive to build.
I work with planar drivers. Why not use several planar drivers that have the performance you want? You can try out a few for less than $200 (from a few dif. sources).
ears4hire58 said:
I'm a student. I don't have $200 I can afford to spend on much of anything. (On the other hand, I can get metal - including perforated metal - very, very cheaply.)
If you know a company that provides student discounts, then perhaps I might be able to afford something - but, for now, I'm just going to go for some Monsoon panels, if I can get some more of them.
Also, as a side note, I believe that my panels are the ones found in the FPS200 computer speaker set. They're used with a small, boxed woofer, and are supposed to sound pretty good.
Spasticteapot said:
I understand the tight $. After starting a family I don’t have much in the way of audio toys left.
Just FYI, I used to work for the Monsoon engineer (at a latter company) and I now do contract work for FPS, and have samples of each. They are not the same driver panels. Although neither is high efficiency nor have extended HF response, they are more usable for mid-range use than most small magnetic-planar drivers (can be used below 500Hz.).
The Monsoon panels (from Canada) use 3+3 ceramic magnets in a push-pull (front-back) configuration and use a stretched diaphragm (with the typical straight circuit traces).
The FPS panels (from Japan) you refer to use 12+ small neo. magnets on the back only and use a suspended diaphragm (with 12 small flat-round circuit “coils”). See the graphic at the Left for a close up on the small FPS panels.
The 2 large FPS panels use hundreds of small neo. magnets in a push-pull (front-back) configuration and have a Fs of 90Hz.
tinitus said:
This little FPS0212 planar driver (pic. at Left) has a diaphragm only an inch wide (5 inch long) but has loads of 200hz, but will no go much lower (and is low SPL). It also has good HF (just add woofer). It is used in the FPS slim line-array systems (plus woofer).
Spasticteapot said:
The Monsoon drivers are long gone. The one pair I have are not so great (they made some better models).
I can hook you up with FPS planars (from FPS USA).
In what SPL, freq. and price range are you looking?
As I posted @ FPS topic:
The little FPS planars (like 3x4 image @ left) are cheap, <$25 in qty. These are good from 300-20kHz. at 82dB W/m (handle only 10W).
The 75W RMS FPS1030 (6x14") are about $400 depending on vintage and qty. These are good from 300-8kHz; 80-86dB W/m depending on vintage.
The 125W FPS2030 (11x14") are about $700 depending on vintage and qty. These are good from 200-4kHz (but so large they beam @ HF); 88dB W/m.
The posted pic. is of several of the FPS1030 and FPS2030 planar drivers in a large concert application (subs not shown). The larger FPS2030 planar drivers have a Fs of 90Hz and handle 125W long term.
Do you think that I should work out some way to make these (and other hard to find planar drivers) available to the DIY group?
Do you have some applications in mind or should I set up a web site with some design ideas for these and other planar drivers (or both)?
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