Re: interesting half truths
Please post refresh rates, pixel rates, and lumen for the $700 comparable one. Thanksuvodee said:
For those, who still believe "DIY projector good, commercial projector bad", check out LL forum:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10788&st=180
Now they are going to offer some cheap 640x480 gizmo (by the way, what a massive downscale from 1024x768 or 1280x1024), and according to the description there, it is supposed to be "much much better" than 8" DIY. So imagine how much below any today's standards our DIY projector are. Easily outperformed by an el-cheapo, sub-entry-level, no-name commercial unit, built around an outdated technology (single LCD panel and OHP-like optics).
Regards
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10788&st=180
Now they are going to offer some cheap 640x480 gizmo (by the way, what a massive downscale from 1024x768 or 1280x1024), and according to the description there, it is supposed to be "much much better" than 8" DIY. So imagine how much below any today's standards our DIY projector are. Easily outperformed by an el-cheapo, sub-entry-level, no-name commercial unit, built around an outdated technology (single LCD panel and OHP-like optics).
Regards
did I say 700 or 500 for a new one
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InFocus X1a 1100 Lumens SVGA Projector
InFocus X1a marks the spot where work and fun meet. Where business tools and home entertainment options converge into a projector of exceptional quality. At work. At home. Wherever you are. This spectacular InFocus 1100 lumens SVGA proejctor will dazzle you with its crisp images and full color thanks to digital processing technology (DLP) from Texas Instruments. Just imagine -- the x1a boasts an amazing 2000:1 contrast ratio! The InFocus X1a delivers superior brightness in almost any environment with powerful zoom lens that will fill your screen and wall. The Infocus X1a offers an incredible array of possibilities with inputs you can use to hook up your laptop, PDA, DVD player, cable or satellite TV system, digital camera, or game consoles. Best off all, you can't beat our incredibly low price! Order the InFocus X1a 1100 lumens refurbished SVGA projector today and get ready for presentations and entertainment that really shines!
tigerdirect.com first page
COMPARE THIS DEAL! Buy.com $619.99
CDW $659.00
PC Mall $659.99
PC Connection $699.00
CompUSA $699.99
You Save Up To $199.99 Our Price: $499.99*
Limited Time Price Break!
InFocus X1a 1100 Lumens SVGA Projector
InFocus X1a marks the spot where work and fun meet. Where business tools and home entertainment options converge into a projector of exceptional quality. At work. At home. Wherever you are. This spectacular InFocus 1100 lumens SVGA proejctor will dazzle you with its crisp images and full color thanks to digital processing technology (DLP) from Texas Instruments. Just imagine -- the x1a boasts an amazing 2000:1 contrast ratio! The InFocus X1a delivers superior brightness in almost any environment with powerful zoom lens that will fill your screen and wall. The Infocus X1a offers an incredible array of possibilities with inputs you can use to hook up your laptop, PDA, DVD player, cable or satellite TV system, digital camera, or game consoles. Best off all, you can't beat our incredibly low price! Order the InFocus X1a 1100 lumens refurbished SVGA projector today and get ready for presentations and entertainment that really shines!
1. Refurbished
2. 2x wheel, complaints about rainbow effects.
3. 800 x 600 resolution
Here is info I found about lumen rating. Also, lumen ratings are done differently than some people have used. They are done with projectors set at long throw, but only at the size projection of 1 meter. Thus higher lumen rating.
"Lumen output
The amount of light projected at the screen by a projector is measured in ansi-lumen but we’ll simply call it the lumen output. The actual number listed in a projector’s spec sheet is about as meaningless as can be, as all it says is that a 2000-ansi-lumen projector has a higher lumen output than a 1000-ansi-lumen projector. It however doesn’t say anything about the quality of the image or whether a 2000-ansi-lumen projector is better than a 1000-ansi-lumen one. For every single projector the quality and the readability of the projected image depends on the amount of ambient light and the size of the image we’re projecting.
If we're for example projecting in a darkened room, the 2000-ansi-lumen projector won’t have an advantage as the 1000-ansi-lumen projector will have sufficient lumen output under these conditions to create a crisp and clear image. The reason why is simple, because there’s no, or not enough, ambient light to affect the projected image. The other way around the lumen output does matter however, if we’re for example projecting in a well lit room, for example a company board room, then more lumens will mean a better defined image, so the 1000-ansi-lumen projector is at a disadvantage here.
Fig 2. The left projector clearly has too much lumen output, saturating the image, the right one is alright.
However we must not forget that in order to be able to make any comments about the readability and quality of the projected image we need to factor in the size of the projected image. If we, for example, take another look at the 2000-ansi-lumen projector and have it project an image of 2 x 1.5 meters and we enlarge the image size to 4 x 3 meters, then the surface area of the projected image has been multiplied by four and thus the brightness of the projected image is just a quarter of the original 2 x 1.5 meters image.
So, in a nutshell, the lumen output of a projector is important, but only if you factor in the lighting conditions of the room it’ll be used in and the size of the image that you’ll be projecting. In the case of a home theatre, lumen output isn’t really an important factor, as we’re always projecting in a darkened room and at a known image size. Most home theatre setups use a projector with a lumen output around 500 ansi-lumen to not saturate and reduce the contrast of the projected image."
"1200 lumen projector
The Z2000 is among the brighter of the home theater projectors currently on the market. We measured the Z2000 at 950 ANSI lumens with all brightness-boosting features turned on. At settings ideal for theater use, the Z2000 still measured 470 ANSI lumens , which is more than enough for a darkened theater. With the combination of contrast and lumen output that you get from the Z2000, you can light up a 120" diagonal screen with no problem. 1
2. 2x wheel, complaints about rainbow effects.
3. 800 x 600 resolution
Here is info I found about lumen rating. Also, lumen ratings are done differently than some people have used. They are done with projectors set at long throw, but only at the size projection of 1 meter. Thus higher lumen rating.
"Lumen output
The amount of light projected at the screen by a projector is measured in ansi-lumen but we’ll simply call it the lumen output. The actual number listed in a projector’s spec sheet is about as meaningless as can be, as all it says is that a 2000-ansi-lumen projector has a higher lumen output than a 1000-ansi-lumen projector. It however doesn’t say anything about the quality of the image or whether a 2000-ansi-lumen projector is better than a 1000-ansi-lumen one. For every single projector the quality and the readability of the projected image depends on the amount of ambient light and the size of the image we’re projecting.
If we're for example projecting in a darkened room, the 2000-ansi-lumen projector won’t have an advantage as the 1000-ansi-lumen projector will have sufficient lumen output under these conditions to create a crisp and clear image. The reason why is simple, because there’s no, or not enough, ambient light to affect the projected image. The other way around the lumen output does matter however, if we’re for example projecting in a well lit room, for example a company board room, then more lumens will mean a better defined image, so the 1000-ansi-lumen projector is at a disadvantage here.
Fig 2. The left projector clearly has too much lumen output, saturating the image, the right one is alright.
However we must not forget that in order to be able to make any comments about the readability and quality of the projected image we need to factor in the size of the projected image. If we, for example, take another look at the 2000-ansi-lumen projector and have it project an image of 2 x 1.5 meters and we enlarge the image size to 4 x 3 meters, then the surface area of the projected image has been multiplied by four and thus the brightness of the projected image is just a quarter of the original 2 x 1.5 meters image.
So, in a nutshell, the lumen output of a projector is important, but only if you factor in the lighting conditions of the room it’ll be used in and the size of the image that you’ll be projecting. In the case of a home theatre, lumen output isn’t really an important factor, as we’re always projecting in a darkened room and at a known image size. Most home theatre setups use a projector with a lumen output around 500 ansi-lumen to not saturate and reduce the contrast of the projected image."
"1200 lumen projector
The Z2000 is among the brighter of the home theater projectors currently on the market. We measured the Z2000 at 950 ANSI lumens with all brightness-boosting features turned on. At settings ideal for theater use, the Z2000 still measured 470 ANSI lumens , which is more than enough for a darkened theater. With the combination of contrast and lumen output that you get from the Z2000, you can light up a 120" diagonal screen with no problem. 1
I am currently selling my qa-2500 for the ptv01b from lumenlab. Same max resolution. Then I plan on taking out the 175w metal halide and replacing it with a 250w metal halide.
Please help hooking LCD panel to G4
I just can't figure out why this isn't working. I'm trying to do the easy version of a big screen projector with an OHP (Dukane) and a Proxima 820. I have a G4 Sawtooth with a Radeon 9000 Pro currently driving two monitors (Sony 420GS and an old Apple 20 inch). I have tried a VGA to s-video adapter, a VGA to the VGA in on the panel, a VGA to RCA adapter. I tried both monitor ports on the card (with adapters because they are ADC and DVI). I am not getting an image on the panel although it detects a signal and goes blank out of the Proxima welcome screen. Now I'm guessing it's the fact that these ports are ADC and DVI with VGA adapters but why do both my CRTs work fine? Please help if you know what's going on. This is driving me nuts!! Thanks. BTW, the panel itself does work when sent s-video from a DVD player.
I just can't figure out why this isn't working. I'm trying to do the easy version of a big screen projector with an OHP (Dukane) and a Proxima 820. I have a G4 Sawtooth with a Radeon 9000 Pro currently driving two monitors (Sony 420GS and an old Apple 20 inch). I have tried a VGA to s-video adapter, a VGA to the VGA in on the panel, a VGA to RCA adapter. I tried both monitor ports on the card (with adapters because they are ADC and DVI). I am not getting an image on the panel although it detects a signal and goes blank out of the Proxima welcome screen. Now I'm guessing it's the fact that these ports are ADC and DVI with VGA adapters but why do both my CRTs work fine? Please help if you know what's going on. This is driving me nuts!! Thanks. BTW, the panel itself does work when sent s-video from a DVD player.
Re: Please help hooking LCD panel to G4
The Proxima 820 needs a 640 x 480 60hz signal. Is that what you are sending it?
The Proxima 820 needs a 640 x 480 60hz signal. Is that what you are sending it?
pepe303 said:
Pepe,
I think you have some points where you speak about the point of doing a DIY projector when cost is not an advantage. But be carefull bashing the DIY community or at discouraging people at this, because in the third world countries (like mine, I live in Brazil) cost is still the BIG issue about building one of those, cause some of the parts you can find locally and you don't need to import (and threrefore pay 60% of the price on taxes!).
So I don't really know the economic situation in every country of the members here, but I know this: here, DIY PJ is the only option if you don't have a lot of money. I don't want to see less people interested in this, maybe in two-three years I'll burn my DIY PJ so I can get some heat in the winter, but till then, I think in a lot of people in other countries still benefit imensely from the information available on how to do it.
Just because it's not worth for you, doesn't mean it is not for the rest of the world, with all the respect intended.
again this person
,Miedosoracing, seems to try to make his ideas the ideas in general
I will never ever understand this sort of people, participating in an open forum....
when I give answers I say this is my opinion, or my experience, or my idea or ....... etc etc..
why not try to be more open and think what you see may not be what i see
I repeat.
for ME:
movies should be watched in a darkened room (like a movie theatre set up, tv news on a regular TV and soaps on a kitchen tv set.
for each his own, that is for many of us i assume
Jean-Pierre
,Miedosoracing, seems to try to make his ideas the ideas in general
I will never ever understand this sort of people, participating in an open forum....
when I give answers I say this is my opinion, or my experience, or my idea or ....... etc etc..
why not try to be more open and think what you see may not be what i see
I repeat.
for ME:
movies should be watched in a darkened room (like a movie theatre set up, tv news on a regular TV and soaps on a kitchen tv set.
for each his own, that is for many of us i assume
Jean-Pierre
pepe303 said:
Im afraid im going to have to disagree with you there.
Firstly, go to AVSForums, and you will see that THE most popular *commercial* projector there is a 480p. And many people argue it is one of the best.
Also notice that they say its better 8" diy. I havent payed for lumenlab but I have never seen a good quality proj below 15".
Building an XGA projector for less than 500 dollars is really feasable, not to mention many people enjoy building things. Go to the loudspeaker forum here and you will see many DIYers admit that based solely on a performance to price ratio, there might be better commercial products available, but they still prefer DIY.
Really I think unless LCD technology dies DIY Projectors wont die. People(like me) enjoy creating something useful, and in this case, I think we get very good performance to price ratio.
And for the record I disagree with lumenlab policy on a really basic level. Being forced to pay for a forum eats at the very foundation of online communities. Its analagous to having neighbors who will say they will only talk with you if you pay them, something I dont have a lot of respect for.
</rant>
EDIT: Oh and I wouldnt say anyone here thinks commercial projectors are bad, they just can be a little bit pricey, and not as fun. 🙂 (although throwit is making his more fun 😉 )
stelleg151 said:
Sorry buddy but you are definitely over-generalizing there. Saying "They will not talk to you unless you pay them" is not true. Email brainchild or any of the regular members there any time and you will be sure to get an answer back shortly. Plus they have a basic guide and a basic forum. People make way too big of a deal out of having to pay for premium forum access, I have payed for it and it was some of the best money I have ever spent. You do realize they need to making a living don't you? 😉
Having completed a Lumenlab DiY Projector, I can honestly say that its a bulky projector, that is noisy and its hard to concentrate with the sound and heat factor, being that the affordable lens only allows you to sit either on top of it or next to it, either way too close for comfort.
In the other hand is all I will afford, because even do I have the money I will never pay the 350 to 500 bucks for the bulb of a commercial projector. Also, the home diy projector also gives a jaw droping HD picture, which I have not seen anywhere else, being on a plasma tv or any other projector.
So its up to the person. If you like to build this is the project for you. In my case I would have bought this new projectors with affordable lamps, and waited for a better resolution version(but it was a while back and there were not out yet) I went for the DIY.
My opinion.....wait for the affordable lamp projectors.
In the other hand is all I will afford, because even do I have the money I will never pay the 350 to 500 bucks for the bulb of a commercial projector. Also, the home diy projector also gives a jaw droping HD picture, which I have not seen anywhere else, being on a plasma tv or any other projector.
So its up to the person. If you like to build this is the project for you. In my case I would have bought this new projectors with affordable lamps, and waited for a better resolution version(but it was a while back and there were not out yet) I went for the DIY.
My opinion.....wait for the affordable lamp projectors.
Chonwain said:
Did you mean this one 😛 ;
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79202
The post that explained why they use a 250w was not for sure correct. There are other reasons they use these. For instance, if you use a 250w ballast, and use a smaller number uf of the capacitor. You will infact drop your wattage getting to the light. If you want more, vice versa. Via a 1200w hmi bulb running on a 600w ballast. (actually done) now, what happens while doing this, you either gain heat or save heat. It is possible they run this ballast for price and the heat from the 150w bulb may be a minimal with the 250w ballast. Not to mention life of the ballast. So just saying that is running a 150w bulb with a 250w ballast is because it makes it brighter is not for sure accurate. Someone would need to test this wattage at the bulb to be sure. JMHO
lol it's amazing how on a DIY forum we have people DIY bashing LOL...
I'm new here so pardon me, im a LL member for a while though and i have seen just about everything i have seen guys build PJ's that suck and PJ's that make your jaw drop...
The fact of the matter is DIY will never die we have people DIYing just about everything there is... why? For the same reason they have people porting linux onto ipod's BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. The fact your trying to put DIY-PJ's down on quality basis is just crap. Yes commercials are coming down and commercials are smaller but theres a problem with that, PJ's are still not as cheap as you make them out to be, for 1k i can build a 1080p projector producing 500ansi (via luxmeter) ok around 1k depending on pricing on some of the parts but still 1k-1.2k is still great for a 1080p projector... don't believe me look around for a decent 1080p projector... and NO NOT A DOWNSCALED ONE! I have gone through 3 seperate "1080p" projectors and found them all to be well below 1080p resolution ... WELL BELOW.... and they were selling for 2500$, the only thing that we don't have that the commercials have are the really high contrast ratios but guess what 400-600:1 i'm fine with it's good enough on my monitor it's good enough on my wall.
Another issue that everyone seems to neglect is the screen half of PJ's look like crap because people expect there wall to be this magical canvas... go spend a few dollars and get some DA LITE and improve the da*n picture.
Ya if your gonna compare a 7" lilliput PJ to a Commercial 700$ projector your gonna win but the fact is those tiny DIY's arent really made for quality there made to be cheap and easy to build and as small as possible... i wouldn't mind a 7" lilli in my bedroom cause its a small room and i only ned a 40" screen ... why do most lilli's look like crap? cause they push it and try to get 50-70" out of them and it ends up pixelating.
Personally i have seen quite a number of PJ's but i've never been as impressed as having seen some of the new 1080p DIY-PJ's and even the crazy guys over at LL doing the 1000w extreme mods ...
The fact is yes eventually technology will put commercial beyond DIY-PJ's but when that happens it wont be just DIY-PJ's it will be all PJ's if they finally release the video wallpaper that can display video anywhere for the cost of regular wallpaper who in there right minds is gonna use a projector... commercial or do it yourself...
These are just my 2 cents but the fact is if you take the time to build a PJ right the first time and get the calculations right and pick a proper box for your environment theres no reason it shouldnt have wonderful potential.
(Oh ya and nice post on the whole movietheater ansi standards hehe )
I'm new here so pardon me, im a LL member for a while though and i have seen just about everything i have seen guys build PJ's that suck and PJ's that make your jaw drop...
The fact of the matter is DIY will never die we have people DIYing just about everything there is... why? For the same reason they have people porting linux onto ipod's BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. The fact your trying to put DIY-PJ's down on quality basis is just crap. Yes commercials are coming down and commercials are smaller but theres a problem with that, PJ's are still not as cheap as you make them out to be, for 1k i can build a 1080p projector producing 500ansi (via luxmeter) ok around 1k depending on pricing on some of the parts but still 1k-1.2k is still great for a 1080p projector... don't believe me look around for a decent 1080p projector... and NO NOT A DOWNSCALED ONE! I have gone through 3 seperate "1080p" projectors and found them all to be well below 1080p resolution ... WELL BELOW.... and they were selling for 2500$, the only thing that we don't have that the commercials have are the really high contrast ratios but guess what 400-600:1 i'm fine with it's good enough on my monitor it's good enough on my wall.
Another issue that everyone seems to neglect is the screen half of PJ's look like crap because people expect there wall to be this magical canvas... go spend a few dollars and get some DA LITE and improve the da*n picture.
Ya if your gonna compare a 7" lilliput PJ to a Commercial 700$ projector your gonna win but the fact is those tiny DIY's arent really made for quality there made to be cheap and easy to build and as small as possible... i wouldn't mind a 7" lilli in my bedroom cause its a small room and i only ned a 40" screen ... why do most lilli's look like crap? cause they push it and try to get 50-70" out of them and it ends up pixelating.
Personally i have seen quite a number of PJ's but i've never been as impressed as having seen some of the new 1080p DIY-PJ's and even the crazy guys over at LL doing the 1000w extreme mods ...
The fact is yes eventually technology will put commercial beyond DIY-PJ's but when that happens it wont be just DIY-PJ's it will be all PJ's if they finally release the video wallpaper that can display video anywhere for the cost of regular wallpaper who in there right minds is gonna use a projector... commercial or do it yourself...
These are just my 2 cents but the fact is if you take the time to build a PJ right the first time and get the calculations right and pick a proper box for your environment theres no reason it shouldnt have wonderful potential.
(Oh ya and nice post on the whole movietheater ansi standards hehe )
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