1. Those "tremendous improvements" in DIY projectors are highly exaggerated. These are minor improvements, at huge cost (ridiculous price of that "pro" lens, which is just another kind of surplus overhead lens, just bigger, I got a Toshiba TLP-550 for 150$, already fixed damaged polarizer, and waiting for replacement lamp for 47$), huge risk of damaging some expensive component for minor results (antiglare removal), or simply meaningless, "marketing improvements" (going from 1024x768 to 1280x1024, who cares, while DVD and TV resolution is much less, and the screen dimensions are limited by very challenged light output)
2. Nobody knows whether this street lighting bulb will last 20000h. It's very unlikely, as these ratings are for very specific application regime, and who actually cares? You will not use your DIY projector for 20k hours, and not even 10k hours. And you will certainly not use it untill total lamp failure, as the brightness will fall much earlier, making your picture unwatchable (it's hardly watchable even with fresh new 400W bulb).
3. You can get new bulb for most commercial projector for <200$. Or, if you don't mind a little bit of diy, can order an inexpensive bulb from Ywh.
4. "WOW" factor is not quantifiable. If I manage to completely fix my Tosiba and tell friends how much it cost, there will be "WOW" as well. And the quality, bright, small projector, full of features unavailable to your oversized cabinet (lens shift, full set of inputs, zoom, advanced controls). "WOW factor" is a momentary effect, while the quality and "joy factor" of a good commercial projector will last much longer.
5. There is a basic, unresolvable issue of all DIY projectors: lack of decent brightness. Sure, you could accept this drawback few years ago, when entry level commercial unit cost was like 3000$, and you could build somethig more or less usable for 700$. Now you can get an entry level projector for 700$, and its quality will beat any DIY projector people ever built.
6. Building this enormously huge, power-hungry cabinet is like driving SUV. You kill the environment, consume resources and energy, expend huge amount of work and time, and finally this box will land in the trash can, as one day you will eventually see how much better commercial projector is. Even an old one, that you could now "recycle" for very little money, saving the environment. Think about it, when you switch on this DIY power monster, some mercenary hired for your taxes is bombing villages in another country to provide you with this underpriced energy and other "cheap" resources.
Regards
2. Nobody knows whether this street lighting bulb will last 20000h. It's very unlikely, as these ratings are for very specific application regime, and who actually cares? You will not use your DIY projector for 20k hours, and not even 10k hours. And you will certainly not use it untill total lamp failure, as the brightness will fall much earlier, making your picture unwatchable (it's hardly watchable even with fresh new 400W bulb).
3. You can get new bulb for most commercial projector for <200$. Or, if you don't mind a little bit of diy, can order an inexpensive bulb from Ywh.
4. "WOW" factor is not quantifiable. If I manage to completely fix my Tosiba and tell friends how much it cost, there will be "WOW" as well. And the quality, bright, small projector, full of features unavailable to your oversized cabinet (lens shift, full set of inputs, zoom, advanced controls). "WOW factor" is a momentary effect, while the quality and "joy factor" of a good commercial projector will last much longer.
5. There is a basic, unresolvable issue of all DIY projectors: lack of decent brightness. Sure, you could accept this drawback few years ago, when entry level commercial unit cost was like 3000$, and you could build somethig more or less usable for 700$. Now you can get an entry level projector for 700$, and its quality will beat any DIY projector people ever built.
6. Building this enormously huge, power-hungry cabinet is like driving SUV. You kill the environment, consume resources and energy, expend huge amount of work and time, and finally this box will land in the trash can, as one day you will eventually see how much better commercial projector is. Even an old one, that you could now "recycle" for very little money, saving the environment. Think about it, when you switch on this DIY power monster, some mercenary hired for your taxes is bombing villages in another country to provide you with this underpriced energy and other "cheap" resources.
Regards
WOW, Lumenlab really has worked out a fresh business strategy, now they are going to send a hitman around the world to get my head 🙂
Check this out, scroll down to the last post on this page:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10788&st=140
Beware guys 🙂
Check this out, scroll down to the last post on this page:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10788&st=140
Beware guys 🙂
pepe303 said:
You clearly haven't seen the improvements I was talking about. And the fact that you even dared to compare the wow factor of building your own vs. buying from the store is laughable at best. And "it's hardly watchable even with fresh new 400W bulb"? HAHA, riiight, you clearly have never used a DIY projector before. It sounds to me buddy like all you want to do is dog on DIY projectors. 😉 🙄
Oh and an added note, in regards to the end of your rant, this "huge" amount of power you say they consume is false, the amount of power they consume can be measured in pennies per month.
You surely didn't understand. I have built a DIY projector, spent lots of time improving it, did all the possible tweakings, put a real reflector in, condensor lens, real projector bulb (575W Osram short arc bulb), removed antiglare, and finally decided to buy a "disposed" commercial projector with broken bulb, to repair it, and get rid of this funny DIY box. Sure I still use it, but considering cost of the parts and huge amount of time involved, this wasn't best choice to build this box.
About your "pennies per month": certainly it's pennies, because the price is forcibly kept below its real market value. Otherwise you could never afford this wasteful standard of living we do (consuming ridiculous amounts of energy and other resources). The more you get addicted to such way of living, the more difficult it will be for you to cope with the comming energy shortages. This is related to DIY projectors, as to any other aspect to our lifes. You can get to work by train, underground, bicycle, small car, walk, or you can use a huge SUV. It's a matter of a reasonable choice, at the end your result is the same, you got to work and back home. You can get an old projector, that someone will give almost for free (instead of throwing it to the bin) and repair it, or you can spend $$$ on energy-intensive materials and components, and build an energy-intensive DIY projector. At the end of the day you just watch movies using either of them. And you will dispose your DIY projector much sooner than you think now.
Regards
About your "pennies per month": certainly it's pennies, because the price is forcibly kept below its real market value. Otherwise you could never afford this wasteful standard of living we do (consuming ridiculous amounts of energy and other resources). The more you get addicted to such way of living, the more difficult it will be for you to cope with the comming energy shortages. This is related to DIY projectors, as to any other aspect to our lifes. You can get to work by train, underground, bicycle, small car, walk, or you can use a huge SUV. It's a matter of a reasonable choice, at the end your result is the same, you got to work and back home. You can get an old projector, that someone will give almost for free (instead of throwing it to the bin) and repair it, or you can spend $$$ on energy-intensive materials and components, and build an energy-intensive DIY projector. At the end of the day you just watch movies using either of them. And you will dispose your DIY projector much sooner than you think now.
Regards
Well buddy, I guess you didn't have as much fun as I have and will continue to with my DIY projectors, to each his/her own.
And in regards to the energy issue, I conserve so much on energy already it's rediculous, and I walk almost everywhere I go, so no worries there. 😉 I'm not gonna worry about something this small, it honestly feels as though you are just grabbing at whatever you can, no offense.
And in regards to the energy issue, I conserve so much on energy already it's rediculous, and I walk almost everywhere I go, so no worries there. 😉 I'm not gonna worry about something this small, it honestly feels as though you are just grabbing at whatever you can, no offense.
But wait, pepe's got a point. There definitely was a time when DIY projectors were a huge money-saver and got comparable results. I think many of us realize that commercial projectors are getting better and cheaper just like every other major technology of the past few decades. Right now it's still cheaper to build a projector if all you want is to watch movies in your darkened living room...90% of us probably. But I fully expect to see a day when DIY projectors are no longer built, unless we find a way to incorporate newer technologies like LCOS or DLP. In less than ten years commercial projectors went from $5,000 to $500 for the same functionality and improved brightness.
The DIY projector community will fade away soon, but there is no doubt that it filled a gap at the right time and that people watched millions of movies on their living room wall instead of being stuck on a 19" CRT.
The DIY projector community will fade away soon, but there is no doubt that it filled a gap at the right time and that people watched millions of movies on their living room wall instead of being stuck on a 19" CRT.
cbm5 said:
No they will not fade, they won't fade awaymore then any other DIY project like building your own computers. LCDs are not fading, so neither will our projectors. There will always be a good size community of people who will remain faithful to the spirit of DIY, it's not just about the money. And on the issue of the cost, those entry level projectors that cost the same as our DIYs are still nothing to brag about and are generally no more then 800x600 in resolution, which ours are 1024x768 (15") and 1280x1024 (17"). The fun of building one yourself will never be replaced.
Interesting you use the example of building computers...at one time, building your own computer meant grabbing a box of components and heating up the soldering iron. No one does that these days, they buy readily-available components that simply plug together. I'm sure some form of DIY big-screen projects will exist in the future, but the lifetime of our current DIY standard is getting close to finished. If we can source cheap LCOS displays we might see some real progress.
cbm5 said:
Our projectors are no different, they will continue to upgrade with technology just as DIY computers have.
Give it 5/10 years and there will be no need for projectors, you will just be able to buy a flexible plastic screen of any size.
http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20051206PR201.html
http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20051206PR201.html
Kodak has something to do with the organic part of that display.... I believe the organic compounds were developed in their research labs. With D-Cinema on the loom for movie theatres I suppose that this might be the next generation of imaging after D-Cinema dies out. I can see unrolling a 60 foot wide version of this monitor and lacing it into the cinema's screen frame....
BTW: Those that are not aware of the true nature of D-Cinema its a BIG step down in quality from 35mm motion picture film. 1 frame of 35mm film = 4k resolution while the present D-Cinema standard has been set at 2K resolution by SMPTE. Picture quality is somewhere between the Super 16 format and 35mm
Mark
BTW: Those that are not aware of the true nature of D-Cinema its a BIG step down in quality from 35mm motion picture film. 1 frame of 35mm film = 4k resolution while the present D-Cinema standard has been set at 2K resolution by SMPTE. Picture quality is somewhere between the Super 16 format and 35mm
Mark
There WILL be and end to DIY projectors: when LCD monitors aren't available anymore. Also, 17" is about the maximum usable size, due to optics and cabinet bulk. It's already nearly impossible to find 15" LCDs in stores, 17" are fast losing ground to 19". And when the tech switches over OLED, DIY projector builders will have to look for other technology.
True, but a good point was made. Even if DIY projectors with LCDs become outdated (just as DIY proj using CRTs have), new technologies will be used. DLP was a good example.
There was also a good point where projecting won't be necessary. There are technologies like "painted screens" or OLEDs or hanging screens. I believe this type of tech might snuff out a good portion of the DIY projectors. But, I do believe this kind of tech is FAR from being ready and / or affordable.
LCD will be around forever. Even if they aren't produced, there are so many of them, there will be around. That is until the LCD wears out (physically). You still have TVs, cars, planes, computers, etc from the 50's.
There was also a good point where projecting won't be necessary. There are technologies like "painted screens" or OLEDs or hanging screens. I believe this type of tech might snuff out a good portion of the DIY projectors. But, I do believe this kind of tech is FAR from being ready and / or affordable.
LCD will be around forever. Even if they aren't produced, there are so many of them, there will be around. That is until the LCD wears out (physically). You still have TVs, cars, planes, computers, etc from the 50's.
I admit I signed up this forum because of this DIY PJ section, and I have not read a single topic on DIY audio proper sections, but I think if audio, which has been around like forever with new technologies also being developed, and still there's this major site about doing that yourself, very popular, that's something to consider.
This tells me we will probably adjust to new PJ technologies and come up with new ideas about how to recreate them without spending too much, or for the fun of it, or still, for customization.
Of course there's a limit to it all, like wanting to design a microprecessor, or even the controller circuit for an lcd, which is not doable for the average DIYer. We still depend on machinery for the accurate stuff.
That's my half cent.
This tells me we will probably adjust to new PJ technologies and come up with new ideas about how to recreate them without spending too much, or for the fun of it, or still, for customization.
Of course there's a limit to it all, like wanting to design a microprecessor, or even the controller circuit for an lcd, which is not doable for the average DIYer. We still depend on machinery for the accurate stuff.
That's my half cent.
Pepe, I have respected most of your posts, but this one goes alittle over the top in my opinion. You may not have a watchable projector, but mine is very watchable, infact, I have two I watch (bedroom and family), and built 2 others that have been sold, and wish my big one was hooked up to my cable box. My wife hates watching the 40" normal tv now. I am getting roughly 350 lumen and watch it comfortably at a 100" screen. Yes, rated with a lux meter. I am replacing the normal glass mirror for a first surface mirror, so that will give me 10% atleast more light as well. More like 30%.pepe303 said:
As far as AG removal, some people may not be good at it or something, but I haven't messed up one lcd from all the one's I have built. It is super easy to do.
The pro lens may be a little over priced for what you get, but the 135mm will be out soon with a 500mm fl and it is the same price. $120 I do believe. I am getting corner to corner focus. And, only about 30% difference from corner to middle brightness change. So, I don't see that with my eyes.
If we ever get to the point of not being able to have electricity for our projectors, that will be the least of my worries. I don't doubt they are coming, but people getting to work etc will be the major issue, not a little projector. I live off of driving people. So I will see it first, trust me.
Last but not least, those $700 projectors are built for work type environments just ask the sellers, not movie, football, fast moving things. Go to a local best buy and say I want to look at the home theatre projectors, and those are roughly $2500 or more. No, mine won't compare with that, but to the $700 one, I will stand up. I talked to the rep, and rated Lumens, he said cut that in half, sometimes not even that. So a 1000 lumen projector is really 500 lumens. I am not that far off. I will be roughly 400 lumens by next week with my mirror. My picture I can see every wrinkle on a persons face. So you may not be able to build a good projector, but mine does very well. I have been offered $800 to sell it. But I love it, and don't want to make another big one. Maybe a 7" again, but no big one.
Again, most posts I let you rant about how things don't work, but this one went overboard. I personally disagree with you, because mine is very nice.
interesting half truths
I beg to differ with post above.
Meanwhile $700 proj have become $595 ones and for excellent results imho one should not have to spend more than 1200
for that price i have even seen the proj with built in dvd. not bad at all except for the sound, they should have left that portion out
2 x 5 watts pmpo he he ....
the refresh rate is becoming faster almost monthly and prices are falling as rockets. Now that the laser projector is in a development stage almost ready to be manufactured, the proj prices will go down even faster.
I built 3 proj all together, stubborn as I was, using the LOA's for everyone remembering them some 3 years ago.
It would not work i heard left and right, I did it and it worked just fine for me.... then i went to a overhead projector with lcd bookpanel, worked even a bit better.
Now i am looking for a pj, and again imho, every thing I am seeing now at best buy and frys beats my set up, everything.
I think personal opinions should not be judged except in SAT or ASL tests.
Jean-Pierre
I beg to differ with post above.
Meanwhile $700 proj have become $595 ones and for excellent results imho one should not have to spend more than 1200
for that price i have even seen the proj with built in dvd. not bad at all except for the sound, they should have left that portion out
2 x 5 watts pmpo he he ....
the refresh rate is becoming faster almost monthly and prices are falling as rockets. Now that the laser projector is in a development stage almost ready to be manufactured, the proj prices will go down even faster.
I built 3 proj all together, stubborn as I was, using the LOA's for everyone remembering them some 3 years ago.
It would not work i heard left and right, I did it and it worked just fine for me.... then i went to a overhead projector with lcd bookpanel, worked even a bit better.
Now i am looking for a pj, and again imho, every thing I am seeing now at best buy and frys beats my set up, everything.
I think personal opinions should not be judged except in SAT or ASL tests.
Jean-Pierre
What was your lumen rating? That is all I will ask anyone who said theirs wasn't working. If it is 400 lumen or more, and they say it wasn't as good. Then I will listen. Until then, opinions about how good $700 are, don't mean anything either. I have compared also. I can see little pixel boxes on those, at a 60" screen. Oh, and bye the way, mine has a 250w sound system built in, with a 12" sub.
to add soem more personal opinions
I am utterly amazed,still, every time I read some one complaining about lumens and the projected image on the screen while having daylight in the room.
Personally I have never ever been in a movie theatre where the windows were open or uncovered, even the 'EXIT' bulbs were burning at 1/5 or their regular output when darkness was created.
Movies are to be seen in a dark environment,
tv news on a tv, soaps and shows on a tv set in the kitchen.
that is my humble opinion!
Jean-Pierre
I am utterly amazed,still, every time I read some one complaining about lumens and the projected image on the screen while having daylight in the room.
Personally I have never ever been in a movie theatre where the windows were open or uncovered, even the 'EXIT' bulbs were burning at 1/5 or their regular output when darkness was created.
Movies are to be seen in a dark environment,
tv news on a tv, soaps and shows on a tv set in the kitchen.
that is my humble opinion!
Jean-Pierre
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