Hey everyone,
I've been wanting a NAS streamer (renderer 🙄) and internet radio for a while.
The 'problem' seems to be I already own a good amplifier with a perfectly serviceable AK4490QM DAC. I have no requirement for a streamer wit a built in DAC.
Also, I find streamers a very bad investment : the technology advances so quickly your few thousand USD/EUR/UKP investment in a high end unit will be worthless a few months from now since it's old hat.
So I started with a Pi, tried, Moode (edit : not Roon, I'm an idiot) and now I'm testing Volumio. I've tried several PC hardware based solutions, like Audirvana, JRiver and a few others, but I find them inefficient and mostly clumsy. I like the Pi thing.
Now I want to start upgrading the Pi setup. I've bought the IanCanada Station Pi and the Dual Linear Pi, and a nice toroid. This I will assemble first. It should be pretty much plug and play for the existing Volumio Pi.
I just can't seem to figure out what the next step would be. I think it would be cleaning up the PI USB with some kind of isolator ? I've seen the Ian Canada one, but it looks a tad expensive.
Are there cheaper alternatives you could recommend ? I would like to stick with the USB, as it offers the fastest datarate (384 kHz), and I use the coax and optical inputs on the dac for other things.
What would you recommend ? I'm staying away from supercaps and batteries for now.
Thanks, Pete
I've been wanting a NAS streamer (renderer 🙄) and internet radio for a while.
The 'problem' seems to be I already own a good amplifier with a perfectly serviceable AK4490QM DAC. I have no requirement for a streamer wit a built in DAC.
Also, I find streamers a very bad investment : the technology advances so quickly your few thousand USD/EUR/UKP investment in a high end unit will be worthless a few months from now since it's old hat.
So I started with a Pi, tried, Moode (edit : not Roon, I'm an idiot) and now I'm testing Volumio. I've tried several PC hardware based solutions, like Audirvana, JRiver and a few others, but I find them inefficient and mostly clumsy. I like the Pi thing.
Now I want to start upgrading the Pi setup. I've bought the IanCanada Station Pi and the Dual Linear Pi, and a nice toroid. This I will assemble first. It should be pretty much plug and play for the existing Volumio Pi.
I just can't seem to figure out what the next step would be. I think it would be cleaning up the PI USB with some kind of isolator ? I've seen the Ian Canada one, but it looks a tad expensive.
Are there cheaper alternatives you could recommend ? I would like to stick with the USB, as it offers the fastest datarate (384 kHz), and I use the coax and optical inputs on the dac for other things.
What would you recommend ? I'm staying away from supercaps and batteries for now.
Thanks, Pete
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Is the AK4490 dac a commercial one with USB? Or maybe its one you built that has a separate USB board?
It's an expansion board installed in my amplifier. I can take it out, replace it, or put in a newer one if I ever win the lottery and want to. But I like it so it stays. It has coax, optical and USB 2 'High Speed' (USB B I think the plug is called).
Okay. So isolating the USB at low cost may not be so easy. There are some cheap USB isolators on ebay and or aliexpress, but they are not reported to work all that well. Allo makes a thing called USBridgeSIG, which is an RPi equivalent with low noise isolated USB for a dac. Other people have modified RPi to run on linear power supplies which has been reported to reduce noise effects in dacs.
I'm curious as to what, specificically, you would like to improve. I've built three Pi-3b based streamers using the Runeaudio operating system, one with a HifiBerry dac daughterboard, one with with digital out daughterboard so I can use legacy DACS I like (a Parts Connection Assemblage kit, and an Audio Alchemy Dac-in-the-box with an upgraded homebrew power supply), and one i just use a Cambridge DacMagic usb dac with. They all work great, and sound wonderful. I even have a fourth doing duty in my shop system just using the standard onboard 1/8" audio out jack.
What are the deficiencies you'd like to correct? My only gripe is inability to have detailed liner notes....😉
What are the deficiencies you'd like to correct? My only gripe is inability to have detailed liner notes....😉
Virtually everyone who has a component stereo (one that is comprised of individual boxes with their own power supplies) has ground loops. There is a ground path through digital and analog audio interconnect cables, and through AC power safety grounds. For wall-wart supplies there are AC leakage paths of RF noise. Ground loops may or may not produce audible hum. Even if they don't show up as much on an FFT, the noise induced into the system through ground problems can be audible. It doesn't necessarily sound like hum or hiss. It may get intermodulated with the audio signal. Most people don't even know they have a problem, but if they plug everything into a really good power conditioner they find the sound mysteriously gets better. My point is that there are often insidious little problems with sound people don't even know they have. Sometimes USB ground and or +5v power is source of HF/RF noise introduced into the system, which can then cause problems.
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As I understand it, the Allo is a complete Pi3 unit. I have a 4, which I am now upgrading the supply side of. I would like to build on that.
Compared to CD or even vinyl the thing has no oompf. The music is very clear and detailed, but it sounds too thin somhow. like some of the mid is missing. I dunno...I'm just faffing about.
Thin sound has been a problem with some dacs. Can't say there is necessarily any one thing that fully fixes it. IME there are usually multiple contributors. FR is not usually involved and a midrange EQ boost does not usually fix it. Its more like there is some distortion and or some signal-correlated noise involved in making everything sound a bit too bright.
That said, fixing ground loops, SMPS noise, USB noise ground and +5v noise, output stage design and implementation, shielding the dac PCB in a steel case, etc., may each produce some improvement. By the time all that is done I would probably just as soon want to start over from scratch.
Maybe other folks will have some suggestions that aren't so wide ranging.
That said, fixing ground loops, SMPS noise, USB noise ground and +5v noise, output stage design and implementation, shielding the dac PCB in a steel case, etc., may each produce some improvement. By the time all that is done I would probably just as soon want to start over from scratch.
Maybe other folks will have some suggestions that aren't so wide ranging.
What file formats are you listening to on the Pi? Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Most webradio streams are of lower resolution than 44.1/16, the CD standard, although there are some that do stream in higher resolutions. What file types are you rendering from your NAS? If it's mp3s, that would more than explain what you're hearing.
Here's a classical streaming station that streams in 44.1/16 ...
http://rondo.iradio.fi:8000/klasupro.flac
Plug that into your existing streamer and see if that sounds OK to you. As with all things, some of the recordings they play are recorded and transfered better than others, of course...source material is key.
Who designs DAC with thin sound? None of the mainstream brands do that. You should stay far away from companies that sell such DAC.
Might be worth trying an Asus Tinker Board, with Volumio. That arrangement is what was used in the turn-key Volumio streamer. The usb implementation is better in those vs the Pi.
Could still use the Pi for home security system maybe?
A decent 5v power supply is a Power One HC5, are usually available on the auction site for $40.
Could still use the Pi for home security system maybe?
A decent 5v power supply is a Power One HC5, are usually available on the auction site for $40.
Attachments
Raspberry Pi + DigiAMP+ (18W/ch class D) running Moode ? Or you could go for IanCanada's full on DAC and use your own amp.
"Moode" seems more like Volumio without the £70/year for a premium account (required to play a CD). It's free. There's a patch to play CDs, not idea but works for adhoc use.
Currently have my setup running and burning in the CHN-50s. So it's designed for listening in the background/small room whilst doing things. It's currently playing Jazz in the background streamed from on the of internet Jazz stations that come with it.
A RPI+HAT is unlikely to blow an audiophile away, but it's better than some of the plastic tat out there.
Just trying a set of caps over the power to provide some additional smoothing. Old regulated supply is a little slow I think.
"Moode" seems more like Volumio without the £70/year for a premium account (required to play a CD). It's free. There's a patch to play CDs, not idea but works for adhoc use.
Currently have my setup running and burning in the CHN-50s. So it's designed for listening in the background/small room whilst doing things. It's currently playing Jazz in the background streamed from on the of internet Jazz stations that come with it.
A RPI+HAT is unlikely to blow an audiophile away, but it's better than some of the plastic tat out there.
Just trying a set of caps over the power to provide some additional smoothing. Old regulated supply is a little slow I think.
I seem unable to communicate my question adequately. I've tried again in the 'Ian Canada' section of the forum. Thanks folks.