To run in Simultaneous mode, Can I use Amenero's USB to I2S in place of FIFO?
Thanks
Badri
Hi,
I have a two cents question please...
Why a DSD64 (2.8224MHz and 3.0720MHz) and DS128 (5.6448MHz and 6.1440MHz) over PCM can not allow to feed the TDA1541 in simultanous mode ?
I have a two cents question please...
Why a DSD64 (2.8224MHz and 3.0720MHz) and DS128 (5.6448MHz and 6.1440MHz) over PCM can not allow to feed the TDA1541 in simultanous mode ?
Hi Eldam,
¿Which transport are you using and which is the final sampling frequency of the PCM file?
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Hi,
The streaming device is this one : I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio a USB to PCM. The material is red book for the most of my data librairy : non-oversampled on the fly, soft is foobar, VLC, whatever compatible reader. So at the beginning a simple 44.1...
Thid board have crystals or can be masterclocked at 45.158MHz and 49.152MHz.
About the TDA1541 it can't not work because the LE signal is shorter than the LSB in simultanous mode... I just don't understand the answer. It is is difference with a dac chip like an AD1865 ?
I have no particular target about the Fhz of the TDA1541 : let say any fhz which can be compatible with it (this USB device) in relation to this DAC ! Is it because it's not 2x32 fh (Left & right channel) compatible in the side of the USB device ?
Thanks for your help : here this device seems to go further in resolution than the Ian i2s to USB (192 k fhz max) in a usefull one in all package but not maid for the TDA1541... (because of DSD encapsulation ?)
This board is going to have a new version soon with an uf.l connector traces for MCLK input option like a better GainSignal pins arrengement for PCM outputs.
In the case of a possibility to program the DSD for the TDA1541, I would like to understand more. It could be nice to ask for a TDA1541version with a GB for it.
USBoverPCM -> TDA1541D - Distinction coreboard or any else -> SEN/CEN = better than the EBAY kits with the most democratical targettable price we could allow = good enough music for maximun people who have a genuine TDA1541D (which can be sourced in a 20 USD old CD player !).
Her we could have 77 euros + 14 euros (Distinction-Coreboard) + SEN (around 15 with parts) + the trafos and the regs like the shunt of Abraxalito fellow : something to a less than 200 euros TDA1541D project !
A trafo with all the voltage on secondary to low the costs should be sourced R-Core if possible for better noise rejection to the digital rails... but this is an another story to come !
The streaming device is this one : I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio a USB to PCM. The material is red book for the most of my data librairy : non-oversampled on the fly, soft is foobar, VLC, whatever compatible reader. So at the beginning a simple 44.1...
Thid board have crystals or can be masterclocked at 45.158MHz and 49.152MHz.
About the TDA1541 it can't not work because the LE signal is shorter than the LSB in simultanous mode... I just don't understand the answer. It is is difference with a dac chip like an AD1865 ?
I have no particular target about the Fhz of the TDA1541 : let say any fhz which can be compatible with it (this USB device) in relation to this DAC ! Is it because it's not 2x32 fh (Left & right channel) compatible in the side of the USB device ?
Thanks for your help : here this device seems to go further in resolution than the Ian i2s to USB (192 k fhz max) in a usefull one in all package but not maid for the TDA1541... (because of DSD encapsulation ?)
This board is going to have a new version soon with an uf.l connector traces for MCLK input option like a better GainSignal pins arrengement for PCM outputs.
In the case of a possibility to program the DSD for the TDA1541, I would like to understand more. It could be nice to ask for a TDA1541version with a GB for it.
USBoverPCM -> TDA1541D - Distinction coreboard or any else -> SEN/CEN = better than the EBAY kits with the most democratical targettable price we could allow = good enough music for maximun people who have a genuine TDA1541D (which can be sourced in a 20 USD old CD player !).
Her we could have 77 euros + 14 euros (Distinction-Coreboard) + SEN (around 15 with parts) + the trafos and the regs like the shunt of Abraxalito fellow : something to a less than 200 euros TDA1541D project !
A trafo with all the voltage on secondary to low the costs should be sourced R-Core if possible for better noise rejection to the digital rails... but this is an another story to come !
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Hi again Eldam,
If you say that it is LSB related I think that I know the answer. This chips are mentioned on the link:
But all of those chips use a different timing scheme than the Philips chips (they are not compatible with the Philips chips), I2S format, which is not supported by the other chip makers. This image is taken from a document from Analog Devices which explains how to connect the AD1856/1851 to a Philips SAA7220 digital filter (designed to directly drive Philips DAC chips):
The SAA7220 works directly with the TDA1541A, but all those other chips from BB and AD need some glue logic to adapt the output signal from the SAA7220. Your interface appears to drive directly the BB and AD chips, so it is not directly compatible with the Philips DAC. It can probably work with some glue logic (maybe a 1 cycle delay on the DATA signal which can be done using a pair of flip flops but I may be mistaken and need something else).
Here you have the document from Analog Devices: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/383160163AN207.pdf
If you say that it is LSB related I think that I know the answer. This chips are mentioned on the link:
But all of those chips use a different timing scheme than the Philips chips (they are not compatible with the Philips chips), I2S format, which is not supported by the other chip makers. This image is taken from a document from Analog Devices which explains how to connect the AD1856/1851 to a Philips SAA7220 digital filter (designed to directly drive Philips DAC chips):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The SAA7220 works directly with the TDA1541A, but all those other chips from BB and AD need some glue logic to adapt the output signal from the SAA7220. Your interface appears to drive directly the BB and AD chips, so it is not directly compatible with the Philips DAC. It can probably work with some glue logic (maybe a 1 cycle delay on the DATA signal which can be done using a pair of flip flops but I may be mistaken and need something else).
Here you have the document from Analog Devices: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/383160163AN207.pdf
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Thanks for the clear explanation, it's easier to understand like that.
So one or two of the demultiplexed right & left channel is(are) out of phase (shorter than the LSB !).
I asked if this glue logic could be resolved programming the Xmos (buffer in it?) and if it's woerth to do it for 50 to 100 units for the TDA 1541... If so I would start an interest GB list...
So one or two of the demultiplexed right & left channel is(are) out of phase (shorter than the LSB !).
I asked if this glue logic could be resolved programming the Xmos (buffer in it?) and if it's woerth to do it for 50 to 100 units for the TDA 1541... If so I would start an interest GB list...
It can probably be done as there are XMOS USB to I2S boards that output I2S so the circuit described on the AD document must be used with AD and BB DACs, while with the Philips chips it works directly.
Sorry I mean to say Amenero's and I2S to PCM [ Amenero's instead of FIFO in that setup highlighted by Ceglar].
Amareno :no, the pcm need to be mastercloked at .45.... or 49...
Diyinkh: yes...and it has isolation than amareno hasn t.
Amareno and the fifo have txo diiferent fct if my understanding is. correct: need an input spidf or usb.amareno can feed the tda in i2s mode alone.
Fifo is just also i2s...
Diyinkh: yes...and it has isolation than amareno hasn t.
Amareno and the fifo have txo diiferent fct if my understanding is. correct: need an input spidf or usb.amareno can feed the tda in i2s mode alone.
Fifo is just also i2s...
Hello Eldam,
first many thanks for that thread
You make a very very good job to compose all the informations and possibilities
I´m a very great fan of the good opld Philips TDA`s and have some diy projects with SBT and USB-I2S converter.
I have ordered the AYA 2014 and TDA1541 Distinction and now look for a good sotlution with simultaned mode.
This looks like a good idea!
regards
first many thanks for that thread
You make a very very good job to compose all the informations and possibilities
I´m a very great fan of the good opld Philips TDA`s and have some diy projects with SBT and USB-I2S converter.
I have ordered the AYA 2014 and TDA1541 Distinction and now look for a good sotlution with simultaned mode.
This looks like a good idea!
regards
Thanks,
I've got no answer from JLSounds. I believe they are not interrested or maybe off for the summertime ! It should be interresting as the board go farer than the 192 Khz limit of the Ian's PCM. Sure 192 khz is enough, but theorically my understanding is the TDA can accept the double. NOS or OS ; choice is an another story ! Maybe if many fellows ask them ??? One default is the lacke of GSGSGS output connectors : frankly the unique return GND pin is a no go for this board if not corrected ! We don't make so many effort to have uf.l everywhere with the AYA2 2014 (Thanks to Pedja for him open mind to allow diyers to go with their own input solution) and the DISTINCTION-1541 to finish with a bad input connector bench on the USB to I2S board !
But I believe at 77 euros JLsounds make a a reasonable price as all the others are more expensive and the little defaults can be corrected !
Feed the Ian's pcm boardwith the futur XO board of Andrea Mori stacked on the Distinction-1541 with a high Laptech (ask him for cotation) and 45.xx or 49.xx (for the PCM boards unluckilly, my understanding is the PCM board can't accept slower speed for its needed input uf.l connector !). For the AYA2 2014 we have a very good trade offs : a standalone compact board with SOTA outputstage ! I'm very curious to listen the two TDA Dacs ! I bet just a tubes version with the huge work maid by Andrea Mori & Ceglar can go further than the op861 stage by Pedja Rogic... and not at the same price with tubes : price & dangerosity for the diyer increase ! So the SQ/P of AYA 2 is still actual and a mark of clever design. Look sometimes on the digital section like some people can mistake between musicality and high transparency or resolution choice ?! Sound is always flavored like a painting or a photograph is : never a real reproduction. Here we will more talking about trade off : designer try to avoid noise at input and at a samee time to add the best distorsion or flavor (whatever you call it) at the output... technician want to measure everything to be themselves reassured but don't know really yet what to measure with the more musical products of the market ! The device must measure good at minimum but it's not enough to say if it's musical or not !
So we can try to stay humble and try to choose a good trade off at input and output around the Distinction-1541 in relation to the money each diyer is able to put in it !
Yeap Still waiting AYA2 boards: some NXP components are none existing anymore, that's why this operation takes more time !
So for the moments if simultanous mod needed : Ian PCM board is the only one !
But after two months I still waiting a mail from Ian to pay & receive the board : I don't know how much boards is needed to him before purchase at the factory !
An interresting bet of Andrea Mori is to go just with I2S but shorter connection (stacked clock board we allow in the Distinction design with two vias near the digital side of the TDA1541) but with a SOTA crystal and embeded PS to have the NOS philosophy : very low clock Frequency : all you need to have a maximum jitter free !
I'm sure we will have a very good surprise also with him philosophy.
I've got no answer from JLSounds. I believe they are not interrested or maybe off for the summertime ! It should be interresting as the board go farer than the 192 Khz limit of the Ian's PCM. Sure 192 khz is enough, but theorically my understanding is the TDA can accept the double. NOS or OS ; choice is an another story ! Maybe if many fellows ask them ??? One default is the lacke of GSGSGS output connectors : frankly the unique return GND pin is a no go for this board if not corrected ! We don't make so many effort to have uf.l everywhere with the AYA2 2014 (Thanks to Pedja for him open mind to allow diyers to go with their own input solution) and the DISTINCTION-1541 to finish with a bad input connector bench on the USB to I2S board !
But I believe at 77 euros JLsounds make a a reasonable price as all the others are more expensive and the little defaults can be corrected !
Feed the Ian's pcm boardwith the futur XO board of Andrea Mori stacked on the Distinction-1541 with a high Laptech (ask him for cotation) and 45.xx or 49.xx (for the PCM boards unluckilly, my understanding is the PCM board can't accept slower speed for its needed input uf.l connector !). For the AYA2 2014 we have a very good trade offs : a standalone compact board with SOTA outputstage ! I'm very curious to listen the two TDA Dacs ! I bet just a tubes version with the huge work maid by Andrea Mori & Ceglar can go further than the op861 stage by Pedja Rogic... and not at the same price with tubes : price & dangerosity for the diyer increase ! So the SQ/P of AYA 2 is still actual and a mark of clever design. Look sometimes on the digital section like some people can mistake between musicality and high transparency or resolution choice ?! Sound is always flavored like a painting or a photograph is : never a real reproduction. Here we will more talking about trade off : designer try to avoid noise at input and at a samee time to add the best distorsion or flavor (whatever you call it) at the output... technician want to measure everything to be themselves reassured but don't know really yet what to measure with the more musical products of the market ! The device must measure good at minimum but it's not enough to say if it's musical or not !
So we can try to stay humble and try to choose a good trade off at input and output around the Distinction-1541 in relation to the money each diyer is able to put in it !
Yeap Still waiting AYA2 boards: some NXP components are none existing anymore, that's why this operation takes more time !
So for the moments if simultanous mod needed : Ian PCM board is the only one !
But after two months I still waiting a mail from Ian to pay & receive the board : I don't know how much boards is needed to him before purchase at the factory !
An interresting bet of Andrea Mori is to go just with I2S but shorter connection (stacked clock board we allow in the Distinction design with two vias near the digital side of the TDA1541) but with a SOTA crystal and embeded PS to have the NOS philosophy : very low clock Frequency : all you need to have a maximum jitter free !
I'm sure we will have a very good surprise also with him philosophy.
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Me and Lyuben from jlsounds:
Does your I2SoverUSB directly support TDA1541, TDA1543, TDA1387? I didn't see any mention of these DAC in your FAQ.
Yes, the I2SoverUSB supports directly (and tested) TDA1541, TDA1543 and TDA1387T. It's not tested with TDA1543A.
Another question, does the I2SoverUSB do different sampling rates? Can it do Non Over Sampling (NOS)?
Yes, all the way up to 352.8kHz and 384kHz, Yes, it can do NOS.
Send Lyuben an email and get a dialog going concerning your technical details, jlsounds is very friendly. They must be off on euro-holiday, I'll ping them from my end😀
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😀Hi Audiolapdance,
Hey such a long time...
I've got a different answer from him as I saw not TDA1541 mentioned in the datasheet of him usb over PCM board:
>> At least, does the board could be ok for the TDA1541 which has option to right & left channel in simultanous mode ? (Eldam question)
Sorry, but TDA1541 won't be working in simultanous mode. The LE signal is shorter than the LSB (please check page 10 of http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/T/ (JLsounds answer)
Then I ask him if the timing could be adapted and if we can to have a lower total cost of ownership if we allow a GB from 50 to 100 units...and I've got any answer this time. Answer was sent on the contact adress of JLsounds website. No boards on stock untill 11 august. Website will be updated and a new daughter clockboard is going to born also !
Please could you ask him with your better english than mine😀 ask him more precisions please ? And maybe confirmation if a grup buy can be allowed as the gnd pins design or uf.l connector be added below the board ? At least he said to me there is one uf.l trace to allow to sold a uf.l connector for the clock input iirc ! Or do i understand you sended an email after I have mentioned them ? I don't understood what you writed above : if you asked him after to go to the same direction or if you asked like me the same questions without I listed them on this thread ?! (my english you know : some time i just d'on't understand the grammarian subtilities !)
less boards = less jitter because shorters distance and less wires interconnections ?
see you, we are going to finalise our little uthopie little by little... 🙂 !
Hey such a long time...
I've got a different answer from him as I saw not TDA1541 mentioned in the datasheet of him usb over PCM board:
>> At least, does the board could be ok for the TDA1541 which has option to right & left channel in simultanous mode ? (Eldam question)
Sorry, but TDA1541 won't be working in simultanous mode. The LE signal is shorter than the LSB (please check page 10 of http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/T/ (JLsounds answer)
Then I ask him if the timing could be adapted and if we can to have a lower total cost of ownership if we allow a GB from 50 to 100 units...and I've got any answer this time. Answer was sent on the contact adress of JLsounds website. No boards on stock untill 11 august. Website will be updated and a new daughter clockboard is going to born also !
Please could you ask him with your better english than mine😀 ask him more precisions please ? And maybe confirmation if a grup buy can be allowed as the gnd pins design or uf.l connector be added below the board ? At least he said to me there is one uf.l trace to allow to sold a uf.l connector for the clock input iirc ! Or do i understand you sended an email after I have mentioned them ? I don't understood what you writed above : if you asked him after to go to the same direction or if you asked like me the same questions without I listed them on this thread ?! (my english you know : some time i just d'on't understand the grammarian subtilities !)
less boards = less jitter because shorters distance and less wires interconnections ?
see you, we are going to finalise our little uthopie little by little... 🙂 !
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Hi Eldam,
I sent my questions to jlsounds months ago when I was looking into USB to I2S cards:
DIYHiFi.org • View topic - USB to I2S: XMOS, CM6631, TE7022, SA9023 ...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/minidsp/255548-usb-i2s-options-minisharc.html#post3911937
But I wasn't exploring Simultaneous Mode for the 1541, at that time. Now I am!
PM me your questions as clearly as you can. We'll go back and forth and then present them here to check the technical details and then we'll send em.
Sounds like a plan!
Cheers,
Jeff
PS I may also have another option ... I'm working on it. 😉
Hi Jeff,
the question and the answer from JLSounds were sent 3 weeks ago and I was not aware about your contact with him !
It seems I have a different answer with a no go for a TDA1541 !
May you please re ask him with your better knowledge & americaglish as well, as I know it's hard to read me without headaches :
- May the splitted timing of Word clocks in two channel, like the others I2S speeds & frame can be adapted in the CMOS for the TDA1541 ? Could he agree to do it for us ?
- Is it possible to double the output signals pins unique row (only a standalone Gnd pin) with a second GND row (one gnd pin below each signal pin of the 4 pins of the simultanous mode output) : or better with 4 UF.L traces for allow us to solder uf.l connectors which are the standard nowadays (Ians'devices, Wave I/O...).
Is he a fellow of DIYAUDIO as well ? Sorry I don't PM the asks above for staying fellows to understand evolutions in the thread or to allow them to correct me if I make technical mistakes !
Hey... I'm curious about your solution : do you plan to make your own simultanous PCM input board or any other I2S devices ?
CFT talked as well of a good SD card reader jitter free like John from ECdesigns uses ! Surmise it can be drived via a USB plug for the reader & compatible with the Foobar, JRivers, etc via modern drivers on Windows or without witgh Mac !?
Cheung if you read us... it's true now with the bigger SDcard capability, the car, and the public transports... could be an alternative and it's totally compatible with the thread... 🙂 remember : even a Linn Sondek LP12 if you can connect it to the Distinction-1541 coreboard 😉
Got no answer of Ian about him I2Sto PCM board aviability yet...
the question and the answer from JLSounds were sent 3 weeks ago and I was not aware about your contact with him !
It seems I have a different answer with a no go for a TDA1541 !
May you please re ask him with your better knowledge & americaglish as well, as I know it's hard to read me without headaches :
- May the splitted timing of Word clocks in two channel, like the others I2S speeds & frame can be adapted in the CMOS for the TDA1541 ? Could he agree to do it for us ?
- Is it possible to double the output signals pins unique row (only a standalone Gnd pin) with a second GND row (one gnd pin below each signal pin of the 4 pins of the simultanous mode output) : or better with 4 UF.L traces for allow us to solder uf.l connectors which are the standard nowadays (Ians'devices, Wave I/O...).
Is he a fellow of DIYAUDIO as well ? Sorry I don't PM the asks above for staying fellows to understand evolutions in the thread or to allow them to correct me if I make technical mistakes !
Hey... I'm curious about your solution : do you plan to make your own simultanous PCM input board or any other I2S devices ?
CFT talked as well of a good SD card reader jitter free like John from ECdesigns uses ! Surmise it can be drived via a USB plug for the reader & compatible with the Foobar, JRivers, etc via modern drivers on Windows or without witgh Mac !?
Cheung if you read us... it's true now with the bigger SDcard capability, the car, and the public transports... could be an alternative and it's totally compatible with the thread... 🙂 remember : even a Linn Sondek LP12 if you can connect it to the Distinction-1541 coreboard 😉
Got no answer of Ian about him I2Sto PCM board aviability yet...
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I built this exact system about a month ago and can report it works very well. I used an older Rodjic 1541 board modified for sim mode. I have an Aya2014 coming and expect it to be even better than the excellent sound I'm getting now.
I think this is as good as your going to get a 1541 to sound.
Member
Joined 2006
I have been looking into the sdtrans384 sd card transport lately, it is an excellent digital source but not sure if the output is compatible with the tda1541A. There is this QA660 SD card player too which one can look at as well.
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