Ehh, the short one I built was 4feet, which would be like 1.2meter
The big one was like 1.8meter
The big one was difficult to control
It also seemed like it was hanging, due to its higher weight from being longer and wider
If you really want such a big thing I dont see any other way than a planar
That on the other hand might be crossed much lower
An old drawing just to illustrate, I wouldnt do it exactly like that
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Hi Casey
I notice how you damped your ribbon and I tried that and I get away the 8Khz problem allot but not the 1Khz problem.
You can get rid of the 1Khz problem with a notch filter.
So you can get it right with damping for the 8Khz peak and a notch for the 1Khz peak.
But i hear when I use a notch filter so first I want to try another ribbon who is symmetrical at front and back.
If I measure the smaller ribbons I build I don't see those problems.
I compare those 2 types and decide what's best.
Rob
Thanks.
I notice how you damped your ribbon and I tried that and I get away the 8Khz problem allot but not the 1Khz problem.
You can get rid of the 1Khz problem with a notch filter.
So you can get it right with damping for the 8Khz peak and a notch for the 1Khz peak.
But i hear when I use a notch filter so first I want to try another ribbon who is symmetrical at front and back.
If I measure the smaller ribbons I build I don't see those problems.
I compare those 2 types and decide what's best.
Rob
Hi tinitus
You can control them to use tension weights and 2 ribbon supports along the height.
The one I build in this topic has no supports at all and still have no problem.
The usable crossover depends on linearity and distortion.
Usually the bigger the ribbon the lower crossover point possible.
Rob
I don't have those problems.
You can control them to use tension weights and 2 ribbon supports along the height.
The one I build in this topic has no supports at all and still have no problem.
The usable crossover depends on linearity and distortion.
Usually the bigger the ribbon the lower crossover point possible.
Rob
No, not if you limit it mechanically
Personally I dont like that
Streching a ribbon is not the best way
All ribbons have certain ressonance problems at their attached ends
When you support a long ribbon in two other places its like having 3 stacked shorter ribbons
And you will have 6x attached ends, instead of 2
Even more ressonance problems, and now closer to listening height
Anyway, I believe its more the width that determines how low it goes
Maybe to some extend also the length, but much less
Well, maybe more realistically both the length and width
But width is a real hurdle to a ribbon
A major issue is still the design with a wide magnet gap, which places the ribbon in a "tunnel"
Consider it like a throath on a compression driver
We cant suddenly ignore the obvious diffraction problems on hand
It may still work ok, but I believe a very good ribbon/planar design will have to deal with this issue
Those are to me the major culprits of any such design
Gap strength is much less an issue
And increased gap strength will only make things worse if the acoustic diffraction problems are ignored
Isnt that exactly where it is at the moment
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Not enuff tension tinny ....
I do agree that a long narrow ribbon will not have any low freq. vs one with more width less height . Overall total Sq area is what determines this , but anything under 30 mm width will not have any appreciable low end response and of course you sacrifice some of the highs by doing so ...
Stretching the ribbon ( tension ) is the only way to " tune " the ribbon . I have done so with good repeatability , by adding a suspension at each end . You can apply known tension , measure and keep applying tension until desired results are obtained .
Ok, you have your ways around it, I wont argue with that
But in my book, a ribbon is not supposed to move like a woofer
If it does, its used too low
Like any other midrange driver
Simple as that
I never liked tension on a ribbon
A loose ribbon always sounded better to me
It may all work fine at very low SPL
But once you turn it up, problems begin
It needs to be controlled electrically, not mechanically
Just as any other driver
Old story
But in my book, a ribbon is not supposed to move like a woofer
If it does, its used too low
Like any other midrange driver
Simple as that
I never liked tension on a ribbon
A loose ribbon always sounded better to me
It may all work fine at very low SPL
But once you turn it up, problems begin
It needs to be controlled electrically, not mechanically
Just as any other driver
Old story
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Tinny ,
How much tension are you using ? a loose ribbon will have to be supported and of course as with all drivers excursion has to be limited to control distortion ..
How much tension are you using ? a loose ribbon will have to be supported and of course as with all drivers excursion has to be limited to control distortion ..
Oh, Its about 25years ago, please dont expect me to remember that long back 😉😛
Whatever, I started a small supertweeter ribbon project some years ago
Not finished yet 😱
And after listening to the good man båndseis "fullrange" planars, Im headed in that direction
I want one, simple as that
Ribbons are still as good as ever
They can sound pretty darned sweet
All I say, just dont expect them to be woofers, or to cope with any BSC issues
But I dont think they will ever be any good much below 1khz, which on its own is pretty good fore a ribbon
It means theres little point in making it much wider than 15mm, and happens to be the point where the magnet gap begin to really loose serious strength
And results in the next problem, the higher xo point to the side by side woofer line array
Please dont think Im just being grumpy
I really try to be objective
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"Grumpy " never crossed my mind ... 😛
Well i did not have the pleasure of hearing Bandshie's Planers , so i would have to accept your Opinion on such 🙂
I have finished my 3 way ribbon and the sound is reasonably good , with mods still left to go . I have incorporated the mods vs diaphragm tension as previously discussed and will admit , diaphragm design and tensions changes the sounds as much as anything else , so i still have a bunch more to play with before it is absolute .
As to Rob, there are design issues that are inherent in his application. It is impossible for a single long/thin ribbon drive to have a full bandwidth, a bass/mid-bass driver would be a must, same as bandshies designs IMO.
It would be interesting to hear the Planer vs Ribbon ( multi-way ), maybe bandshie can post his test results to compare to robs ...
Well i did not have the pleasure of hearing Bandshie's Planers , so i would have to accept your Opinion on such 🙂
I have finished my 3 way ribbon and the sound is reasonably good , with mods still left to go . I have incorporated the mods vs diaphragm tension as previously discussed and will admit , diaphragm design and tensions changes the sounds as much as anything else , so i still have a bunch more to play with before it is absolute .
As to Rob, there are design issues that are inherent in his application. It is impossible for a single long/thin ribbon drive to have a full bandwidth, a bass/mid-bass driver would be a must, same as bandshies designs IMO.
It would be interesting to hear the Planer vs Ribbon ( multi-way ), maybe bandshie can post his test results to compare to robs ...
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While waiting fore the results from Rob....
Theres nothing like a good ribbon
Lots of ways, and mods that cost next to nothing
Sure, its fun, with certain limitations
But sure, I had "forgot", until I heard bandshies🙂p) planars
With all this new stuff like digtal filters/EQ I feel its due time to pick it up again
And I think I know how to do it
But too early to say
Im looking at some alu tape, but with 0.020mm(20um) maybe a bit heavy
But its marketed as a "soft" tape
But too early to say
Hi,
Good to see another tinker er around!
I am currently building a pair of 72" ribbons for somebody.
I'm making them basically the same way I did in the beginning.
I have upgraded the membrane suspension to support lower x-over points, and am seeking (possibly) a patent on it.
I still don't have femm, and,
\opinion:
I still think it won't improve the sound from strictly a listening standpoint enough to warrant such attention.
I highly doubt a listener could tell the difference in a side-by-side comparison.
/opinion.
Keep up the good work everybody!
paul
Good to see another tinker er around!
I am currently building a pair of 72" ribbons for somebody.
I'm making them basically the same way I did in the beginning.
I have upgraded the membrane suspension to support lower x-over points, and am seeking (possibly) a patent on it.
I still don't have femm, and,
\opinion:
I still think it won't improve the sound from strictly a listening standpoint enough to warrant such attention.
I highly doubt a listener could tell the difference in a side-by-side comparison.
/opinion.
Keep up the good work everybody!
paul
Hi
There's some progress.
I build en new mid high section with a mid 50mm ribbon and high 15mm ribbon
You can see the difference in measurement between the design from valvitude and a ribbon who's the same on front and back.
All measurements are nearfield picture from left to right Valvitude - 50mm Mid - 15mm Tweeter.
Rob
There's some progress.
I build en new mid high section with a mid 50mm ribbon and high 15mm ribbon
You can see the difference in measurement between the design from valvitude and a ribbon who's the same on front and back.
All measurements are nearfield picture from left to right Valvitude - 50mm Mid - 15mm Tweeter.
Rob
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