Hi!
Diving into my first build here, with a recently procured old pair of Fostex FE127E! I'm deciding on the most appropriate cabinet design for my tastes.
Here's what I've gathered from the several hundreds of pages on the forum : The best options seem to be
1) Fonken Prime
2) Fonken tuned Floorstanders
3) Frugel-horn mk3
4) iBIBk
5) one of the miniature Fonkens with FE127
Room size is approx 12'x13'x9', so not big at all.
Preferences : I am trying to get the best SQ possible, looks and size and building complications are secondary (I will use a CNC to get my wood cut, I believe assembly won't be too hard to learn).
I am slightly afraid of the claimed honkiness/7Hz peak of the Fonken 127E. Of course I haven't experienced it first hand, but I have been sensitive to bright speakers in the past. I will be doing the ENABL modifications to the mods once I find the instructions, but it still leaves me worried.
Which of the above mentioned cabinets is the best to reduce the brightness of the driver? Which will give the smoothest sound? I prefer realistic bass, extension isn't a major criterion.
note : If I build bookshelf speakers, they'll probably end up on my desk. I dont want to build stands right now. If placement is very important, I'd rather build floorstanders.
Amplification will be fulfilled with an SMSL made TDA7492 amp(20w);at least for now. An O2 amp will be used as a preamp.
Diving into my first build here, with a recently procured old pair of Fostex FE127E! I'm deciding on the most appropriate cabinet design for my tastes.
Here's what I've gathered from the several hundreds of pages on the forum : The best options seem to be
1) Fonken Prime
2) Fonken tuned Floorstanders
3) Frugel-horn mk3
4) iBIBk
5) one of the miniature Fonkens with FE127
Room size is approx 12'x13'x9', so not big at all.
Preferences : I am trying to get the best SQ possible, looks and size and building complications are secondary (I will use a CNC to get my wood cut, I believe assembly won't be too hard to learn).
I am slightly afraid of the claimed honkiness/7Hz peak of the Fonken 127E. Of course I haven't experienced it first hand, but I have been sensitive to bright speakers in the past. I will be doing the ENABL modifications to the mods once I find the instructions, but it still leaves me worried.
Which of the above mentioned cabinets is the best to reduce the brightness of the driver? Which will give the smoothest sound? I prefer realistic bass, extension isn't a major criterion.
note : If I build bookshelf speakers, they'll probably end up on my desk. I dont want to build stands right now. If placement is very important, I'd rather build floorstanders.
Amplification will be fulfilled with an SMSL made TDA7492 amp(20w);at least for now. An O2 amp will be used as a preamp.
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The Fonken Prime is the most time consuming of the builds, and might not extract the full LF extension of which the driver is capable, but of all the enclosures I've heard this driver in, they have the smoothest roll-off, which in a 156sq ft room might be the ticket. However, they do need stands of some sort - a decent commercial pair of which can easily cost more than the plywood for an entire pair of speakers.
FH3 might be too much bass? - but presumably extra damping fill could tame that, but they have a much bigger footprint.
I've never built a BIB
On balance, I'd recommend the floorstander #2 on your list - they're a less complicated build than the "primes", have a very compact footprint, and well, don't need stands.
As for the upper midrange resonances, if you do find them hard to live with, there are a few appoaches
-(non-reversible) cone treatments that can help mitigate those
- a conjugate passive trap filter
- active EQ at signal level
Use BB plywood or equivalent.
FH3 might be too much bass? - but presumably extra damping fill could tame that, but they have a much bigger footprint.
I've never built a BIB
On balance, I'd recommend the floorstander #2 on your list - they're a less complicated build than the "primes", have a very compact footprint, and well, don't need stands.
As for the upper midrange resonances, if you do find them hard to live with, there are a few appoaches
-(non-reversible) cone treatments that can help mitigate those
- a conjugate passive trap filter
- active EQ at signal level
Use BB plywood or equivalent.
Thanks for your in puts Chris!
If you feel the Fonken Prime does perform best I can try making stands out of filled PVC or something. The floorstander seems a nice option too. How do they differ in the midrange frequencies?
If you feel the Fonken Prime does perform best I can try making stands out of filled PVC or something. The floorstander seems a nice option too. How do they differ in the midrange frequencies?
To be honest, it's been quite a while since I've heard either, and certainly any comparisons, so it'd be wild-a$$ed speculation, but I'd give the overall edge in finesse to the Primes.
I'll be a bit off the radar for the next several days - prepping for the DIY fest, but if you decide to go ahead with the standmounters, having built quite a few pairs of all them Fonken speakers, I could offer some observations on fabrication / assembly. .
I'll be a bit off the radar for the next several days - prepping for the DIY fest, but if you decide to go ahead with the standmounters, having built quite a few pairs of all them Fonken speakers, I could offer some observations on fabrication / assembly. .
The full Fonken planset (as much as there is) is available on request.
The floorstander & the FPrime have the same volume & tuning, just different shapes. The F-Prime has a more optimum shape & the big champhers lower their diffraction signature, making them more capable of "disappearing".
The floorstander for the FE127 evolved into the "same" for the EL70. The Compact Floorstander (with the trapezoidal sides) was a manipulation of the floorstander and i'd be willing to add a drawing of one for the FE127 if you are interested.
As to EnABL, i am happy to help if you want to tackle them yourself. After treatment the HF resonances are greatly reduced.
dave
The floorstander & the FPrime have the same volume & tuning, just different shapes. The F-Prime has a more optimum shape & the big champhers lower their diffraction signature, making them more capable of "disappearing".
The floorstander for the FE127 evolved into the "same" for the EL70. The Compact Floorstander (with the trapezoidal sides) was a manipulation of the floorstander and i'd be willing to add a drawing of one for the FE127 if you are interested.
As to EnABL, i am happy to help if you want to tackle them yourself. After treatment the HF resonances are greatly reduced.
dave
I have not heard any of the cabinets listed above for the Fostex 127e.
My 2 cents - build a BIB so the sound is balanced (maybe one of the above cabinets balance out the sound too) or build a small box and add a subwoofer.
I've built the following:
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/fostex-127e-projects/
My 2 cents - build a BIB so the sound is balanced (maybe one of the above cabinets balance out the sound too) or build a small box and add a subwoofer.
I've built the following:
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/fostex-127e-projects/
I come from a different school of thought. Cabinet design can be crucial; but also abused. My point being that running a full range driver has merit (my preference) and the cabinet used changes the game. Much like the band pass boxes many put sub's in, distort the sound. I think how much lower end desired set the system up for failure.
The drivers used have an impact on the sound as well. That's why we collect them looking for "that" sound. I have Fostexes 8-20 cm, a few in Foster, Coral 4", KLH and JBL full ranges, EV 8 + 10", Utah 8", and a few tube period console mixes, and even a few 2 way.
I really like a little of most kinds of music; favorite opera arias, classic rock, jazz, even a bit of techno.....I learned quickly how many of many favorite songs are from BAD recordings, Yes Fragile Round about for example. Good recordings show themselves with listening when volume is not the goal, and one can hear all the recording has, fingers on metal strings, nylon tip sticks on cymbals, piano/harp like you're next to them, etc..
I can't try every form of cabinet for each driver, on one can; but I did find that open/air suspension seemed best for open phased depth of ..."presentation?". The BAD issue was an obvious lack of bottom to balance it all out. The few ported/folded cabinets I had, out right muted/muffled the bottom, not to the extent the kids do in their cars you hear coming from blocks away, but muted none the less.
My solution is an inline equalizer used before the amplifier, which is important. The main amp will only push the upper music range not the power robbing lower 80hz. Lower power tube amplifiers, units driving inefficient speakers, or demanding music w/ wide dynamic range all are helped to cope w/ the output. I use a M&K ($75ish on E-bay) fixed at 90hz. There's a Dahlquist w/ variable level ($175ish on E-bay)and others costing hundreds. I prefer to use an active sub in a SEALED cabinet; again ported modifies the sound. The best change comes to the full range or main speakers. The removal of the cone bouncing bass allows for a vibrant clear detailed sound. I learned this when I bought the M&K unit w/ the bypass toggle switch between the two volume knobs on the front (my other one doesn't have it). The sound difference is night and day, BIG improvement. The unit does pick up transformer hum, a CD player or even an alarm clock; so keep it away from things. The low freq. crossover is hard to hear, and if you have an active sub w/ a variable crossover, you can choose 100hz level and overlap that freq.. So, if you're committed to 4"(140hz) or 5 1/4" (110hz) you can turn up the sub freq to meet them. I use a pair of 8" dual cone cast frame speakers by Utah w/ a M&K 8" sealed active sub. I have tried Klipsch Heresy, La Scala, and the big K Horns and I think I'm louder and have a single driver sound over a 3 way speaker. My 4.5 wpc SET tube amp sings all night! I can't compare to $1000 Lowther or Tannoy Red or Gold speakers; I never can but them, my whole system w/ shipping was at $750ish. Some of those fancy cabinets alone are $4-500.
I hope I gave you something to think about and maybe a choice to get a sound you want.
Again, all just my opinion, and we all know what they say about opinions!
GOD bless America.....Mike
The drivers used have an impact on the sound as well. That's why we collect them looking for "that" sound. I have Fostexes 8-20 cm, a few in Foster, Coral 4", KLH and JBL full ranges, EV 8 + 10", Utah 8", and a few tube period console mixes, and even a few 2 way.
I really like a little of most kinds of music; favorite opera arias, classic rock, jazz, even a bit of techno.....I learned quickly how many of many favorite songs are from BAD recordings, Yes Fragile Round about for example. Good recordings show themselves with listening when volume is not the goal, and one can hear all the recording has, fingers on metal strings, nylon tip sticks on cymbals, piano/harp like you're next to them, etc..
I can't try every form of cabinet for each driver, on one can; but I did find that open/air suspension seemed best for open phased depth of ..."presentation?". The BAD issue was an obvious lack of bottom to balance it all out. The few ported/folded cabinets I had, out right muted/muffled the bottom, not to the extent the kids do in their cars you hear coming from blocks away, but muted none the less.
My solution is an inline equalizer used before the amplifier, which is important. The main amp will only push the upper music range not the power robbing lower 80hz. Lower power tube amplifiers, units driving inefficient speakers, or demanding music w/ wide dynamic range all are helped to cope w/ the output. I use a M&K ($75ish on E-bay) fixed at 90hz. There's a Dahlquist w/ variable level ($175ish on E-bay)and others costing hundreds. I prefer to use an active sub in a SEALED cabinet; again ported modifies the sound. The best change comes to the full range or main speakers. The removal of the cone bouncing bass allows for a vibrant clear detailed sound. I learned this when I bought the M&K unit w/ the bypass toggle switch between the two volume knobs on the front (my other one doesn't have it). The sound difference is night and day, BIG improvement. The unit does pick up transformer hum, a CD player or even an alarm clock; so keep it away from things. The low freq. crossover is hard to hear, and if you have an active sub w/ a variable crossover, you can choose 100hz level and overlap that freq.. So, if you're committed to 4"(140hz) or 5 1/4" (110hz) you can turn up the sub freq to meet them. I use a pair of 8" dual cone cast frame speakers by Utah w/ a M&K 8" sealed active sub. I have tried Klipsch Heresy, La Scala, and the big K Horns and I think I'm louder and have a single driver sound over a 3 way speaker. My 4.5 wpc SET tube amp sings all night! I can't compare to $1000 Lowther or Tannoy Red or Gold speakers; I never can but them, my whole system w/ shipping was at $750ish. Some of those fancy cabinets alone are $4-500.
I hope I gave you something to think about and maybe a choice to get a sound you want.
Again, all just my opinion, and we all know what they say about opinions!
GOD bless America.....Mike
So, Mike, of the enclosures from the OPs short list, or any others which would you recommend for the FE127?
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I was not happy with the FE127E due to the treble peak - you're ears may be happy with it but if you have doubts you could pick the FH3 enclosure because I've read that it's very tolerant to driver spec. and you could use a number of other drivers in the enclosure later if you decide you want to try something different. I've not built or heard the FH3 myself.
Thanks Chris! I'd appreciate the help during the build process for sure!
Thanks Dave, that is great help! I'd love to request for the Fonken plans. How do I pay for them and how much? I haven't heard of the trapezoidal floorstander you mention. Does it sound as good as the F Prime? If so I'd like to try it out.
As to Enabl, when is the best time to do it? Before or after construction of the cabinets? I'm going to take some time to do this build given my schedule. I tried looking at some old threads on Enabling, but the galleries seem like lost links since picasa shutdown.
Thanks Godzilla! Your projects look great! I've decided not to go with the BIB however just for size constraints. I have enough space in my room, but transporting them is going to be my issue(no car).
Audiomusic, I appreciate your inputs. I will try and get a subwoofer when the budget allows for it.
Bigun, I think the FH3 will have too much bass for my room. The Fonkens might do better.
General Question :
I received my amp and drivers(cables on the way). I'm impatient to listen to them. Is it safe or advisable to directly hook in the drivers to the amps? Can I break them in that way?
Thanks Dave, that is great help! I'd love to request for the Fonken plans. How do I pay for them and how much? I haven't heard of the trapezoidal floorstander you mention. Does it sound as good as the F Prime? If so I'd like to try it out.
As to Enabl, when is the best time to do it? Before or after construction of the cabinets? I'm going to take some time to do this build given my schedule. I tried looking at some old threads on Enabling, but the galleries seem like lost links since picasa shutdown.
Thanks Godzilla! Your projects look great! I've decided not to go with the BIB however just for size constraints. I have enough space in my room, but transporting them is going to be my issue(no car).
Audiomusic, I appreciate your inputs. I will try and get a subwoofer when the budget allows for it.
Bigun, I think the FH3 will have too much bass for my room. The Fonkens might do better.
General Question :
I received my amp and drivers(cables on the way). I'm impatient to listen to them. Is it safe or advisable to directly hook in the drivers to the amps? Can I break them in that way?
email me. They are free, althou i do take donations.
It is the same tuning. It doesn't have as low a diffraction signature as the fill-on miniOnken with the big champhers, but is easier to build and eliminates the need for stands.
A really nice set Bernie did for FF165 -- for the FE127 it would be narrower (about 75%).
Anytime
Yes, you can start the break-in
dave
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