You need to give details about your box design.
1. What are the parameters of the woofer - no I won't look them up - it's your question...the more info you provide, the more likely you'll get a satisfactory answer.
2. How do you know they (the parameters) are right?
3. Sonotube Diameter and length
4. Port Diameter and length
5. How are you crossing them over, what frequency and what frequency are your mains crossed over at - or aren't they 😉?
6. How did you set levels?
7. What is associated equipment?
8. Room dimensions and placement
9. expectations....
1. What are the parameters of the woofer - no I won't look them up - it's your question...the more info you provide, the more likely you'll get a satisfactory answer.
2. How do you know they (the parameters) are right?
3. Sonotube Diameter and length
4. Port Diameter and length
5. How are you crossing them over, what frequency and what frequency are your mains crossed over at - or aren't they 😉?
6. How did you set levels?
7. What is associated equipment?
8. Room dimensions and placement
9. expectations....
This is nonsense. Fast bass = treble.
Here's an example of an optimized tube sub designed for a single 1503.
Note that the rubber trim gasket was removed from the driver to get the best seal. Closed cell foam weatherstriping tape was used under the flange
This sub driven by a good amp shakes my 2500sq ft brick house.
The 1503's have a fairly high Le, so something like a BFD is necessary to flatten the output.
Thank you ThomasW... I remember seeing that article before and will definitely re-read it. And, yes... I know... fast bass=treble... It's an old habit from a couple of years back when everyone was talking about "fast" and "slow" bass. I suppose I should use "not-as-articulate-as-I-want" bass. 😉
Ok... for details... I'll go with Ron E's list to simplify the process (and so I will be less likely to forget something)
1. Parameters:
Fs: 26.8Hz
Qms: 7.9
Qes: 0.32
Qts: 0.30
Vas: 132L
Re: 3.6-ohms
BL: 22.1
Sd: 804 cm^2
Xmax: 25.85mm
Pmax: 1000W
SPL: 91dB
2. Well, I guess I don't know the parameters are correct for sure... WinISD usually calculates values that are very close, though...
3. Tube diameter 16" (quite a tight squeeze), length, umm, 46" or thereabouts. I forget, really...
4. Port diameter is 4", length is 12", I think...
5. All speakers crossed over at 80Hz via my receiver (it's lowest setting).
6. I set levels with my receiver's test tones and Radio Shack SPL meter. I forget what actual dB level I set at, though.
7. Associated equipment? I guess my Onkyo receiver for surround and Nady Audio XA-1100 power amp for the subs (I am currently running the DPL12 with the BPD). So, each sub gets approximately 475W, though I never run them that hard at all. Running Klipsch all around, 98dB 1W/m mains.
8. My room is somewhat oddly shaped. It is not a rectangle nor is it a square... I'll just say 15x15 for simplicity's sake since I don't have a tape measure handy.
9. Expectations? Well, better sound than what I am currently getting. I would like a little cleaner sound from the BPD and I could nix the DPL12 (though I would REALLY rather have stereo subs... Although they say low bass is non-directional, I can still tell it is only coming from my left side somehow).
Ok... for details... I'll go with Ron E's list to simplify the process (and so I will be less likely to forget something)
1. Parameters:
Fs: 26.8Hz
Qms: 7.9
Qes: 0.32
Qts: 0.30
Vas: 132L
Re: 3.6-ohms
BL: 22.1
Sd: 804 cm^2
Xmax: 25.85mm
Pmax: 1000W
SPL: 91dB
2. Well, I guess I don't know the parameters are correct for sure... WinISD usually calculates values that are very close, though...
3. Tube diameter 16" (quite a tight squeeze), length, umm, 46" or thereabouts. I forget, really...
4. Port diameter is 4", length is 12", I think...
5. All speakers crossed over at 80Hz via my receiver (it's lowest setting).
6. I set levels with my receiver's test tones and Radio Shack SPL meter. I forget what actual dB level I set at, though.
7. Associated equipment? I guess my Onkyo receiver for surround and Nady Audio XA-1100 power amp for the subs (I am currently running the DPL12 with the BPD). So, each sub gets approximately 475W, though I never run them that hard at all. Running Klipsch all around, 98dB 1W/m mains.
8. My room is somewhat oddly shaped. It is not a rectangle nor is it a square... I'll just say 15x15 for simplicity's sake since I don't have a tape measure handy.
9. Expectations? Well, better sound than what I am currently getting. I would like a little cleaner sound from the BPD and I could nix the DPL12 (though I would REALLY rather have stereo subs... Although they say low bass is non-directional, I can still tell it is only coming from my left side somehow).
4" diameter port is really too small for a high excursion driver like a 1503.
Also you really should drop the tuning down to 18Hz or so, the 1503 does quite well with that tuning.
Remove the DPL-12 from the system and EQ the 1503. It's got all the bass you'll ever need.
You may need to experiment with placement IF that's a possibility.
FYI, HERE's a link to the Dumax test of a 1503
Also you really should drop the tuning down to 18Hz or so, the 1503 does quite well with that tuning.
Remove the DPL-12 from the system and EQ the 1503. It's got all the bass you'll ever need.
You may need to experiment with placement IF that's a possibility.
FYI, HERE's a link to the Dumax test of a 1503
I've actually not had any problems with the smaller port... no port noise whatsoever. In fact, usually I can barely feel any air flowing through the port, even during loud movie sequences. It helps that the driver is fairly efficient, I guess. I hit peaks of 100dB during movies, so it really doesn't need too much power to keep up. I am trying to think how I can place this thing... I just put my power amp in my closet to avoid the fan noise (man that thing is loud...), so now I am limited in placement because of the amp's location. The sub is sort of in a corner (about 2 feet away) but is against the wall. I would kind of like it to be on the other side of the room, and I do have another closet over there, but it is so packed with junk the amp would never fit. And, I just cannot deal with the fan noise... It totally overpowers quiet dialog in movies. I'll look into re-tuning as well. I am still looking into rebuilding... Anyone know of a good sub enclosure maker that charges reasonable rates? I emailed Acoustic Visions and was told that he will not be building any enclosures until spring or summer... so if there are any other options... He is actually the only builder I knew of.
And, if Stryke/Acoustic Elegance would get the drivers in, I might just take two AV15's (or four of their newer, cheaper 12" models) and let it be that. Put them in smallish sealed boxes and EQ the heck out of them for stereo subs (what I really want anyway, but no more 1503's are available).
And with all the nice information on the DUMAX report, they just couldn't include Le... 🙄 Good info, nonetheless.
And, if Stryke/Acoustic Elegance would get the drivers in, I might just take two AV15's (or four of their newer, cheaper 12" models) and let it be that. Put them in smallish sealed boxes and EQ the heck out of them for stereo subs (what I really want anyway, but no more 1503's are available).
And with all the nice information on the DUMAX report, they just couldn't include Le... 🙄 Good info, nonetheless.
I'm afraid that you just don't understand what's going on.
What makes you think newer/different drivers are the answer? You already have 2 good drivers and aren't happy with either of them. This speaks to the problem being something other than the drivers (cabinet design or room placement).
I have quite a few subs in the house including some that cost A LOT more than the 1503, and none sound better, other than my IB subs.
You don't really need to know the Le, nothing changes what's already made. All you need to know is that the 1503 has a high Le and it takes EQ to effect a flat FR plot as a result
As a reference I measured the inductance of one of my 1503's. Now it's mounted in a box, so there's a short lead of speaker wire and an input terminal attached. The inductance of all that was 2.78mH.
Whether you hear chuffing or not, you have port compression with that small port.
50% of the performance of a sub is the driver/enclosure, and 50% is room placement and proper EQ.
What makes you think newer/different drivers are the answer? You already have 2 good drivers and aren't happy with either of them. This speaks to the problem being something other than the drivers (cabinet design or room placement).
I have quite a few subs in the house including some that cost A LOT more than the 1503, and none sound better, other than my IB subs.
You don't really need to know the Le, nothing changes what's already made. All you need to know is that the 1503 has a high Le and it takes EQ to effect a flat FR plot as a result
As a reference I measured the inductance of one of my 1503's. Now it's mounted in a box, so there's a short lead of speaker wire and an input terminal attached. The inductance of all that was 2.78mH.
Whether you hear chuffing or not, you have port compression with that small port.
50% of the performance of a sub is the driver/enclosure, and 50% is room placement and proper EQ.
I was merely mentioning the dual AV15 setup because I am thinking about eventually moving to two smaller subs because I am kind of crowded in here with all these large speakers. I need some more room...
My box is really not optimal... I know... I cannot think of anyone off hand, though, who builds home sub enclosures, other than Acoustic Visions, who is not currently building enclosures. I would like to get the box a little larger and maybe change the tuning on it. I have quite a bit of 16" sonotube left, but I'd rather not use it because it begins getting rather tall since it is not wide enough.
Would two 4" flared ports be a better solution for tuning? I modeled that a couple of days ago and I think each port had to be 19" with two flared ports. Somewhat of a problem considering all the 4" flared port kits only go to 17"...
I am reconsidering what I can do with my room. Right now, I can only see one way to arrange things and still have this place inhabitable... and that is how it currently is. If I move the sub to the other wall, I'll have to also move the amp over there, which will, again, lend to the much hated fan noise. I've got the BFD on the list of things to get as well... for when I settle on a means to arrange everything (and after I get a better enclosure going).
My box is really not optimal... I know... I cannot think of anyone off hand, though, who builds home sub enclosures, other than Acoustic Visions, who is not currently building enclosures. I would like to get the box a little larger and maybe change the tuning on it. I have quite a bit of 16" sonotube left, but I'd rather not use it because it begins getting rather tall since it is not wide enough.
Would two 4" flared ports be a better solution for tuning? I modeled that a couple of days ago and I think each port had to be 19" with two flared ports. Somewhat of a problem considering all the 4" flared port kits only go to 17"...
I am reconsidering what I can do with my room. Right now, I can only see one way to arrange things and still have this place inhabitable... and that is how it currently is. If I move the sub to the other wall, I'll have to also move the amp over there, which will, again, lend to the much hated fan noise. I've got the BFD on the list of things to get as well... for when I settle on a means to arrange everything (and after I get a better enclosure going).
Two 4" ports would be definitely better. You can purchase only both flared ends and then you buy longer ABS pipe to make the center section at the home hardware store. Since you're at it, you could tune it lower, but then you still have a small sonotube.
Try to play with the room placement, put a subwoofer in the center of your room and crawl on the floor. Where you think the sound is the best, put the subwoofer there and listen.
You probably need a Behringer BFD and a bigger sonotube.
Good luck!
Try to play with the room placement, put a subwoofer in the center of your room and crawl on the floor. Where you think the sound is the best, put the subwoofer there and listen.
You probably need a Behringer BFD and a bigger sonotube.
Good luck!
Do they sell the ABS pipe at Lowe's or Home Depot? I have looked through their plumbing departments several times and only recall the larger thickness PVC. I probably didn't look hard enough, though... Should I even look into maybe using three 4" ports? That would make for very long ports... but how much is enough to avoid port compression?
I am looking into getting a new enclosure made, so the sonotube won't be in commision anymore. I think I may have stumbled on the right person to build, too... 🙂
I was planning on measuring the frequency response of my room tonight... but I've hti a brick wall. I used my long RCA cable to run to my sub amp now that I moved it into the closet. So, I have nothing to run from my computer to my receiver for digital coax. And, I'd hate to waste a CD for test tones only...
I am looking into getting a new enclosure made, so the sonotube won't be in commision anymore. I think I may have stumbled on the right person to build, too... 🙂
I was planning on measuring the frequency response of my room tonight... but I've hti a brick wall. I used my long RCA cable to run to my sub amp now that I moved it into the closet. So, I have nothing to run from my computer to my receiver for digital coax. And, I'd hate to waste a CD for test tones only...
You mean a blank CD? They are less than $0.50 these days for the best Taiyo Yuden discs... Shouldnt be too big a waste. 😉
One thing you could try, to see if the BFD is going to help that much, is bring your PC temporarily into your HT room. Then use it as your source, and start measuring your in-room response with a tone generator.
Once you've done that, get a paragraphic EQ plugin and start playing music in winamp, foobar or cooledit. You should be able to apply the paragraphic eq plugin to these program's wave output, so then you could start applying EQ filters in realtime to see what effect they have.
If you have a soundblaster live or audigy card, a more elegant alternative that requires no fancy plugin/player combos would be to download the KXproject DSP drivers (do a search for KX on this forum) and use its EQ plugins.
That would at least give you an idea of what to expect from parametric EQ of the sort the BFD can provide in your room.
Once you've done that, get a paragraphic EQ plugin and start playing music in winamp, foobar or cooledit. You should be able to apply the paragraphic eq plugin to these program's wave output, so then you could start applying EQ filters in realtime to see what effect they have.
If you have a soundblaster live or audigy card, a more elegant alternative that requires no fancy plugin/player combos would be to download the KXproject DSP drivers (do a search for KX on this forum) and use its EQ plugins.
That would at least give you an idea of what to expect from parametric EQ of the sort the BFD can provide in your room.
I'm almost sure that home depot sells ABS pipe, maybe it's a bit thick versus the flared ends, but it's always something you could sand to make it fit.
Two 4" ports is enough for your design.
Maybe Precision Sound could sell you a pipe of the right length from the start, I don't know.
Two 4" ports is enough for your design.
Maybe Precision Sound could sell you a pipe of the right length from the start, I don't know.
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