Hi...
Time after time all of us face the issue of changing the location...sometimes for the better, sometimes worse. Due to certain circumstances my stereo will have to move to a much smaller room. For the moment, I am running the Open baffles with Visaton B200 and Eminence Beta 15. My concern is that this combination won't be so happy in a 3 x 3.5m room. So, I have started thinking about building a box...but the question is...which one?
So, there are some "parameters" which will have to be accepted as "fixed" by WAF, and I am trying to play with the possible variables in order to find an optimum solution.
Fixed: Room size 3 x 3.5 m. Speakers will be placed along the 3.5 m wall. One of them will most probably end up in the corner. The other one won't be able to go quite in the corner due to WAF (piece of furniture). It will be next to the back wall, some 60-70 cm from the corner. Listening place will be on a couch which will be placed next to the opposite wall. On the left side of the couch is the door, windows are on the right side.
The driver: I will be able to use either Visaton B200 or Fostex Fe206E, as I own them both and I won't be able to buy/sell or make other arrangements.
So, it seems that I will have to choose an enclosure which works fine against a wall, and/or close to the corner(s). I prefer huge dynamic sound, which sort of rules out some closed/small boxes ot TL's (I had been running Fostex Fe206e in ML TLs, and have never been quite happy with the bass)...
So...I have in mind several enclosures, but will build just one. I need to help as to decide which driver/enclosure fits best.
Start with Fostex Fe206e:
1. BiB
Pros: can work in the corner, simple to build, gives huge dynamic sound that I like.
Cons:Some other designs made specifically for FE206e can work better than a BiB. Then the question is if I will be happy with that, (or wonder why I haven't build something else)
2. Sachico
Pros: Perhaps sonically the best enclosure for this driver.
Cons: Quite complicated to build, not sure if my local woodworker can do it properly. Also, not sure if a huge double-mouth horn will sound good in a small room.
3. Chang
Pros: Simpler to build than Sachico, while still capable of offering nice and large, dynamic sound.
Cons: Not really suitable for low Qts of Fotex FE206e, maybe it won't deliver proper bottom end. Also, not sure if big double mouth BVR will sound good in a small room.
4. Fostex FE208 sigma factory horn. Size is acceptable, maybe it will workd in the given size of the room, but...(not sure if this could be a good compromise)
Then, I have Visaton B200:
Sadly, much less enclosure choices with this one.
1. BiBs would become huge, end even if I could fit that monster in a room, I have no clue how it will sound...
2. Scott and Dave had some sort of double mouth BVR for B200. (Loreena?) It could be a good choice, but, beside being huge, don't know if it will work fine in a small room. So..
One may notice that I have deliberately excluded some designs like Metronome, Half-Chang and similar. The reason is many of them need BSC, and I have conclude that I don't like it. I would prefer a speaker box with enough low end gain so it doesn't need BCS....
Tough choice, isn't it?
What would you do...
Time after time all of us face the issue of changing the location...sometimes for the better, sometimes worse. Due to certain circumstances my stereo will have to move to a much smaller room. For the moment, I am running the Open baffles with Visaton B200 and Eminence Beta 15. My concern is that this combination won't be so happy in a 3 x 3.5m room. So, I have started thinking about building a box...but the question is...which one?
So, there are some "parameters" which will have to be accepted as "fixed" by WAF, and I am trying to play with the possible variables in order to find an optimum solution.
Fixed: Room size 3 x 3.5 m. Speakers will be placed along the 3.5 m wall. One of them will most probably end up in the corner. The other one won't be able to go quite in the corner due to WAF (piece of furniture). It will be next to the back wall, some 60-70 cm from the corner. Listening place will be on a couch which will be placed next to the opposite wall. On the left side of the couch is the door, windows are on the right side.
The driver: I will be able to use either Visaton B200 or Fostex Fe206E, as I own them both and I won't be able to buy/sell or make other arrangements.
So, it seems that I will have to choose an enclosure which works fine against a wall, and/or close to the corner(s). I prefer huge dynamic sound, which sort of rules out some closed/small boxes ot TL's (I had been running Fostex Fe206e in ML TLs, and have never been quite happy with the bass)...
So...I have in mind several enclosures, but will build just one. I need to help as to decide which driver/enclosure fits best.
Start with Fostex Fe206e:
1. BiB
Pros: can work in the corner, simple to build, gives huge dynamic sound that I like.
Cons:Some other designs made specifically for FE206e can work better than a BiB. Then the question is if I will be happy with that, (or wonder why I haven't build something else)
2. Sachico
Pros: Perhaps sonically the best enclosure for this driver.
Cons: Quite complicated to build, not sure if my local woodworker can do it properly. Also, not sure if a huge double-mouth horn will sound good in a small room.
3. Chang
Pros: Simpler to build than Sachico, while still capable of offering nice and large, dynamic sound.
Cons: Not really suitable for low Qts of Fotex FE206e, maybe it won't deliver proper bottom end. Also, not sure if big double mouth BVR will sound good in a small room.
4. Fostex FE208 sigma factory horn. Size is acceptable, maybe it will workd in the given size of the room, but...(not sure if this could be a good compromise)
Then, I have Visaton B200:
Sadly, much less enclosure choices with this one.
1. BiBs would become huge, end even if I could fit that monster in a room, I have no clue how it will sound...
2. Scott and Dave had some sort of double mouth BVR for B200. (Loreena?) It could be a good choice, but, beside being huge, don't know if it will work fine in a small room. So..
One may notice that I have deliberately excluded some designs like Metronome, Half-Chang and similar. The reason is many of them need BSC, and I have conclude that I don't like it. I would prefer a speaker box with enough low end gain so it doesn't need BCS....
Tough choice, isn't it?
What would you do...
What little I can tell you:
I built a Half-Chang with FE206e; needed BSC; works quite well to my ear.
Double mouth horns, as I understand them, need more distance between speaker and listener than you have available.
Good luck!
Jim
I built a Half-Chang with FE206e; needed BSC; works quite well to my ear.
Double mouth horns, as I understand them, need more distance between speaker and listener than you have available.
Good luck!
Jim
Build H-frames with either Alpha 15 or Goldwood 18 inch drivers, put the B200 on an appropriately sized OB and sit them on top of the H-frames.
Or build BIBs for the 206e
That's what i would do.
Or build BIBs for the 206e
That's what i would do.
Thanks Jim!
While I have a certain sympathy for double mouth horns, I also understand that my domestic environment doesn't allow for such a design. 🙁
BiB could be an easy build but on the other hand, it can overpower the room.
Seems like Half-Chang or Fostex 208 sigma factory enclosure (with Fe206e driver) may be the most probable candidates...
Regards,
vix
While I have a certain sympathy for double mouth horns, I also understand that my domestic environment doesn't allow for such a design. 🙁
BiB could be an easy build but on the other hand, it can overpower the room.
Seems like Half-Chang or Fostex 208 sigma factory enclosure (with Fe206e driver) may be the most probable candidates...
Regards,
vix
this is how i heard the visaton B200. was sitting atop of a pair of 18" woofers. thing was huge but sounded pretty good, if not a little bottom end heavy. its owner was a an ex army gunner so maybe couldn't hear a lot of high end anyway.
the b200 sounded a little bit crazy in the highends but phase plugs are rumoured to correct this significantly.
Hi Jeff,
At the moment I am practically using an open baffle; biamped Visaton B200 on top, Eminence Beta 15 at the bottom. While it sounds good in a biggish room where they are now, due to some WAF circumstances they will have to move to a smaller room. If it turns out that they sound OK, then fine, but my concern is that OB's, being tucked next the back wall, and practically in corners, without a possibility to pull them out, will suffer...
Then better to build something that works in such environment...
At the moment I am practically using an open baffle; biamped Visaton B200 on top, Eminence Beta 15 at the bottom. While it sounds good in a biggish room where they are now, due to some WAF circumstances they will have to move to a smaller room. If it turns out that they sound OK, then fine, but my concern is that OB's, being tucked next the back wall, and practically in corners, without a possibility to pull them out, will suffer...
Then better to build something that works in such environment...
Attachments
Your small room size rules out Sachiko (or Kirishima which Scott figures is better (even with 206e)), Vulcan should work -- but you may find that you'd have to work to throttle back the bass.
I'd suggest Dallas II for 206e & your room.
B200 probably needs at least 10 times the power to be as dynamic. Not a lot of boxes for these, they have mostly seen duty in OBs. Joe Rasmussen has done an aperiodic TL that has a ruler flat impedance... i don't know if he has managed that without filters or not, but it appeals to me because one could play with current amps.
dave
I'd suggest Dallas II for 206e & your room.
B200 probably needs at least 10 times the power to be as dynamic. Not a lot of boxes for these, they have mostly seen duty in OBs. Joe Rasmussen has done an aperiodic TL that has a ruler flat impedance... i don't know if he has managed that without filters or not, but it appeals to me because one could play with current amps.
dave
Thanks for the suggestions. Considering everything once again, FE206E BiB is the most likely candidate. (Easier to build than Dallas II, height is not a problem, one corner available)
Another thought has been running in the background...Onken style box for Visaton B200! It is almost aperiodic box, and provided that it is large enough, should work well. I still don't know "how large" it should be, but if it is smaller than Emken, then fine 🙂
Another thought has been running in the background...Onken style box for Visaton B200! It is almost aperiodic box, and provided that it is large enough, should work well. I still don't know "how large" it should be, but if it is smaller than Emken, then fine 🙂
By factory specs, Q is too high for one of my miniOnken. A true aperiodic box 150-230 litres looks like it might work thou.
dave
dave
Update: If not sure which of the two, get a third one 😀
I just bought these 2nd hand (not originally planned, but I couldn't resist). Now gotta figure out what to do with them. At first I thought to try a BIB ,but now I think that it is a better idea to go FAST route 😀. Just gotta be patient till I find a nice pair of woofers and figure out what box to put them in.
In the meantime, I could put the CSS in some sealed/aperiodic boxes..
I just bought these 2nd hand (not originally planned, but I couldn't resist). Now gotta figure out what to do with them. At first I thought to try a BIB ,but now I think that it is a better idea to go FAST route 😀. Just gotta be patient till I find a nice pair of woofers and figure out what box to put them in.
In the meantime, I could put the CSS in some sealed/aperiodic boxes..
Attachments
I would have said b200's in visatons solo 100 design. Has a pretty complicated correction network but I had a pair of these for years. They are a little big, but sound great in a small room and 30hz is quite audible. Easy to build and look like normal speakers if you put a full length grille on them.
Warm, non fatiguing sound, no tweeter or sub needed in a room that size on axis. Well worth a look 🙂
Warm, non fatiguing sound, no tweeter or sub needed in a room that size on axis. Well worth a look 🙂
Hi Dave,
I have a pair nice sealed boxes from oldish speakers which are just gathering dust. Drivers themselves used to be 2 way (8" + tweet). I just thought to use this enclosure for the CSS (will adapt a hole for the CSS instead of 8" driver). However the box has around 15 l volume. Is it too big, or can it be used successfully?
Thanks,
Vix
Hi,
My 2 cents are:
Seems the B200 was design to OB panel, so it is hard to made a good box for him, better use it in a OB panel even.
My 2 cents are:
Seems the B200 was design to OB panel, so it is hard to made a good box for him, better use it in a OB panel even.
Except one!
I'll most probably put B200 in a box-their packaging 😀
Until at sometime I decide to build OB in the future, or perhaps hide them so somebody finds them 100 years later and enjoys antique sound 😀
If the Solo 100 is too big, try the Solo 50.
I have the Solo 20 with BSC and Phase plug and the only thing it need right now is a sub. I will try building a Solo 50 with or without the a tweeter.
I have the Solo 20 with BSC and Phase plug and the only thing it need right now is a sub. I will try building a Solo 50 with or without the a tweeter.
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