My BA-3 and Waynes Linestage are going to need a proper source once finished. Still hoping to finish my builds by a fortnight after the next full moon, after easter correlates within thirty days of Jupiters next solar eclipse. That gives me some time to think and plan my source(s).
I have not found much in the way of digital discussions in correlation with the FW and PL threads. On the other hand, there is a separate digital section on this site. Nevertheless, I find it relevant to raise the subject in a separate thread here. Why?, you might ask. Well, because I, alongside many of you, regard Nelson Pass and Pass Labs as the authority in high end audio, prioritizing the listening experience over mere measurements, and so on.
The Pass Labs DAC being out of my price range, and vinyl out of my range due to the presence of curious little hands around my setup, I want to know what you guys use, and where you think I should be looking for a DAC and perhaps digital source.
As of now, I have a Mac that might be used as source. Though not optimal, and far from as good a source as I used to have prior to my DIY projects made me sell it off, it might do the trick, for starters at least.
More important, I gather, is the DAC. Any of you tried a DIY DAC? With or without opamps, I2S or not? Where to go, and why? And how make it relatively cheap?
Looking forward to your views on the matter. A contribution from Papa is also most welcome.
Regards,
Andreas
I have not found much in the way of digital discussions in correlation with the FW and PL threads. On the other hand, there is a separate digital section on this site. Nevertheless, I find it relevant to raise the subject in a separate thread here. Why?, you might ask. Well, because I, alongside many of you, regard Nelson Pass and Pass Labs as the authority in high end audio, prioritizing the listening experience over mere measurements, and so on.
The Pass Labs DAC being out of my price range, and vinyl out of my range due to the presence of curious little hands around my setup, I want to know what you guys use, and where you think I should be looking for a DAC and perhaps digital source.
As of now, I have a Mac that might be used as source. Though not optimal, and far from as good a source as I used to have prior to my DIY projects made me sell it off, it might do the trick, for starters at least.
More important, I gather, is the DAC. Any of you tried a DIY DAC? With or without opamps, I2S or not? Where to go, and why? And how make it relatively cheap?
Looking forward to your views on the matter. A contribution from Papa is also most welcome.
Regards,
Andreas
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I’d recommend Soekris for the DAC. I recently purchased a 1321, though you can diy them too. Discrete R2R with a discrete output buffer. Very nice.
I've got a diy dac. Fet audio FDA-2A with a AD1955 dac chip and discrete I/V stage.
Store << FET Audio | Hi-End Audio Projects
I just hope spencer will take up this web shop once again soon. I would like another one of this dac kits.
Store << FET Audio | Hi-End Audio Projects
I just hope spencer will take up this web shop once again soon. I would like another one of this dac kits.
I have some flexibility. But around 400 dollars including chassis and PSU is in the ball park. What do you think is a resonable budget for a DAC that does my pre and amp some justice?
Thanks to everyone, checking out the Soekris and FET link.
Thanks to everyone, checking out the Soekris and FET link.
I have had similar thoughts on a "Pass clone use appropriate DAC/streamer" (PCUADS, I guess) for folks in this forum. I'm just beginning to unravel streaming and so forth, and want something other than just Laptop source.
I use a program called music bee, which arranges digital files and allows for a WASAPI output, allegedly bypassing the Microsoft pile of sound stuff. This is all fed to a USB DAC, Audioquest red Dragon Fly.
While this works, I've looked at commercial streamers, and either they come with built in DAC which I don't want, or those with out built in DAC seem horribly expensive for what they are.
I'm thinking of a stripped down computer only for performing this service, and that search led to Raspberry Pi stuff. As a basic platform, this should suffice, although I read that their DACs don't really hit the high level of performance I'm seeking. Well, a separate DAC can be used, solving this problem.
I'm at the limit of my knowledge on this. Fortunately the latest iteration of Raspberry Pi is not that expensive if it doesn't pan out.
I realize all this topic is probably, more for the Digital forum, but I can feel the OP's desire to have a discussion with possible answers from members here, who build these Pass clone amps and share similar views on these things. I mean, we have a couple of headphone amps in this vein, and there is a Headphone forum here too...
Russellc
I use a program called music bee, which arranges digital files and allows for a WASAPI output, allegedly bypassing the Microsoft pile of sound stuff. This is all fed to a USB DAC, Audioquest red Dragon Fly.
While this works, I've looked at commercial streamers, and either they come with built in DAC which I don't want, or those with out built in DAC seem horribly expensive for what they are.
I'm thinking of a stripped down computer only for performing this service, and that search led to Raspberry Pi stuff. As a basic platform, this should suffice, although I read that their DACs don't really hit the high level of performance I'm seeking. Well, a separate DAC can be used, solving this problem.
I'm at the limit of my knowledge on this. Fortunately the latest iteration of Raspberry Pi is not that expensive if it doesn't pan out.
I realize all this topic is probably, more for the Digital forum, but I can feel the OP's desire to have a discussion with possible answers from members here, who build these Pass clone amps and share similar views on these things. I mean, we have a couple of headphone amps in this vein, and there is a Headphone forum here too...
Russellc
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Russell, have you looked into Audirvana? It might help bypass some of the windows stuff you mentioned. I’m a Mac user and can’t speak directly to that, but I’ve always streamed from my Mac laptop via Audirvana and have had good results. In fact, I was using an AQ Red not that long ago in this workflow, with good results.
In my home setup i stream Roon via a Raspbery Pi to a DAC07 from NewOnTech (The NewOntech new DAC07 is now in full production.), feeding a Korg B1 and an Aleph 5 - this sounds absolutely beautiful.
In my headphone setup, at work, i use a Topping E30 feeding a WHAMMY - this is not a bad DAC either, It measures quite well and let the WHAMMY shine.
In my headphone setup, at work, i use a Topping E30 feeding a WHAMMY - this is not a bad DAC either, It measures quite well and let the WHAMMY shine.
I am in the same boat. Have three DIY Pass clones and two in the works, including SIT3X. Have H2 in the line which makes everything sound better. I have Fostex FE168Sigmas in Tapered Quarter Wave cabinets.
Marantz CD5004 which I have is the limiting factor. High Resolution tracks from YouTube sound so much better. HD tracks played through my mobile sound great too.
So I have been thinking of using my Laptop, bypassing Windows software with apps which then output through USB, anything from FLAC to PCM to DSD to MQA music files.
Hence, I have been looking up Entry to Mid level DACs. I have seriously considered iFi Zen DAC, Topping D50s, DX3 Pro among others. Anyone with a higher budget could scale upto Topping D70 or D90s.
An alternative would be to get a High Resolution Player from Shanling or similar. One can always scale up with Sources and DACs.
Marantz CD5004 which I have is the limiting factor. High Resolution tracks from YouTube sound so much better. HD tracks played through my mobile sound great too.
So I have been thinking of using my Laptop, bypassing Windows software with apps which then output through USB, anything from FLAC to PCM to DSD to MQA music files.
Hence, I have been looking up Entry to Mid level DACs. I have seriously considered iFi Zen DAC, Topping D50s, DX3 Pro among others. Anyone with a higher budget could scale upto Topping D70 or D90s.
An alternative would be to get a High Resolution Player from Shanling or similar. One can always scale up with Sources and DACs.
Being a DIY guy I ended up assembling a Volumio DAC/Streamer
It was under $100.
It uses a Raspberry PI 3 with a HifiBerry DAC+
plugin board and Hifiberry case.
Loaded up the SD card with Volumio and the results exceeded expectations.
It can play all my FLAC files from a USB stick or
network server and can also wirelessly stream.
And I control it with a tablet from my listening chair, perfect.
It was under $100.
It uses a Raspberry PI 3 with a HifiBerry DAC+
plugin board and Hifiberry case.
Loaded up the SD card with Volumio and the results exceeded expectations.
It can play all my FLAC files from a USB stick or
network server and can also wirelessly stream.
And I control it with a tablet from my listening chair, perfect.
Got very good results with a Raspberry PI3b and the AroioDAC RPi-HAT by Abacus Audio. Like banderson546 I am using Volumio for streaming, mostly from from a harddrive via Minimserver and sometimes iTunes.
Abacus is a German no-nonsense brand and compared to the HifiBerry and the Allo DACs I had before this one sounds more relaxed while giving excellent detail to my ears.
The analog and digital sections of the Arioio can be powered independently and separately from the Raspberry. Haven't tried that yet but word is that it does sound better. I'd love to build a linear PSU for that if a fitting design can be found.
Abacus is a German no-nonsense brand and compared to the HifiBerry and the Allo DACs I had before this one sounds more relaxed while giving excellent detail to my ears.
The analog and digital sections of the Arioio can be powered independently and separately from the Raspberry. Haven't tried that yet but word is that it does sound better. I'd love to build a linear PSU for that if a fitting design can be found.
Glad to see so many responses, I wondered if others were thinking along these lines...I hoped responses would flow.
I think I will get a Raspberry and start playing around and see. I like the D
Sokeris and Topping ideas, seems this R2R deal is a God way to go.
Russellc
I think I will get a Raspberry and start playing around and see. I like the D
Sokeris and Topping ideas, seems this R2R deal is a God way to go.
Russellc
I’m using the RME ADI-2 Pro. It is a state-of-the-art DAC and, more importantly for me, it is also an excellent ADC. I route the vinyl through it into my computer, perform FIR correction, and then route the output back to it. It can record into DSD or PCM and I am outputting DSD-direct, which bypasses the DAC chip altogether. It has a plethora of other inputs and outputs and DSP function, even a loudness filter. It works flawlessly in all modes.
I recently built an F4 and the RME is able to drive it plenty loud. The imaging is other-worldly with this combination. Speakers are diy 15” woofer plus horn combo, with passive crossover between them, FIR correction and plus some other tricks to improve imaging.
The RME can also output 4 analogue channels in multichannel mode and I’ve used that successfully with subs. I’ve built multichannel DACs before but it is always kludgy with drivers, software, ins and outs, glitches, and so on. With the RME it just works, and sounds amazing to boot.
I recently built an F4 and the RME is able to drive it plenty loud. The imaging is other-worldly with this combination. Speakers are diy 15” woofer plus horn combo, with passive crossover between them, FIR correction and plus some other tricks to improve imaging.
The RME can also output 4 analogue channels in multichannel mode and I’ve used that successfully with subs. I’ve built multichannel DACs before but it is always kludgy with drivers, software, ins and outs, glitches, and so on. With the RME it just works, and sounds amazing to boot.
Thanks for that, I will look into this too. I think the Raspberry pi will serve fine for the purposes I need, as I understand it, the way it will communicate internally will effectively be as direct as WASAPI output.
At first I thought I would load musicbee into it, but that requires windows, and the Raspberry uses Linux. I have read that some have had limited luck loading windows into Raspberry, the results being described as not what I am looking for. But, since the Raspberry/USB DAC is said to be direct, this isn't a concern. I can just get a stand alone hard drive, and point the Raspberry at it.
Scaling the learning curve, slowly...
Russellc
At first I thought I would load musicbee into it, but that requires windows, and the Raspberry uses Linux. I have read that some have had limited luck loading windows into Raspberry, the results being described as not what I am looking for. But, since the Raspberry/USB DAC is said to be direct, this isn't a concern. I can just get a stand alone hard drive, and point the Raspberry at it.
Scaling the learning curve, slowly...
Russellc
Really nice to see so many responses. I, like Russel, have considered RPI. See, however Hans Beekhuyzens review of the DAC+ On this site: HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro - the sound 1, Reviews, The Hans Beekhuyzen Project
It was in fact so bad at first listen, that he didn’t review it and instead put it away. Then he connected a linear PSU straight to the DAC board and the sound became presentable. This is something to consider. If one builds a DIY PSU, it will be an affordable project. If not, the price in reality becomes so high one could instead buy something else, IOW the RPI is no longer price competitive. Another thing to consider, is the DAC2 HD hat. Hmmm
So what some have experienced, is that the DAC+ is good enough? Or is that with a linear PSU?
It was in fact so bad at first listen, that he didn’t review it and instead put it away. Then he connected a linear PSU straight to the DAC board and the sound became presentable. This is something to consider. If one builds a DIY PSU, it will be an affordable project. If not, the price in reality becomes so high one could instead buy something else, IOW the RPI is no longer price competitive. Another thing to consider, is the DAC2 HD hat. Hmmm
So what some have experienced, is that the DAC+ is good enough? Or is that with a linear PSU?
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Used the stock Hifiberry DAC+ without a linear supply and frankly didn't like it much. It might be better with a linear PSU but hearing how much better my cheap Focusrite Scarlett sounded I decided to move on.
Then got to Allo Piano 2.1 on the premise that connecting a sub is possible. Turns out their drivers are not there and the device was pretty fuzzy altogether. Sound was better than Hifiberry though.
The Arioso just works and sounds good. Will try a linear supply for the analog section next & report.
Edit: Andy - no direct comparison as I only have one Raspberry. But I had both DAC-hats here in the same system. The Aroio is more natural to my ears. PSU is a cheap USB wall-wart.
Then got to Allo Piano 2.1 on the premise that connecting a sub is possible. Turns out their drivers are not there and the device was pretty fuzzy altogether. Sound was better than Hifiberry though.
The Arioso just works and sounds good. Will try a linear supply for the analog section next & report.
Edit: Andy - no direct comparison as I only have one Raspberry. But I had both DAC-hats here in the same system. The Aroio is more natural to my ears. PSU is a cheap USB wall-wart.
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That is really great news, McGillroy. At 69,90 euros, it is worth a shot and well within budget. It should be no big deal making a 5V supply fitting the bill. Do you plan on building your own, or buy something? They are expensive as h...
A good plan might be to go for the RPI with arioso, and try a linear PSU down the road. A lot of other things to fix before that becomes my top priority.
Do you use the DIGI+ board as well? Or how does that work? 1 or 2 hats on top of the RPI?
A good plan might be to go for the RPI with arioso, and try a linear PSU down the road. A lot of other things to fix before that becomes my top priority.
Do you use the DIGI+ board as well? Or how does that work? 1 or 2 hats on top of the RPI?
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Nope - vanilla R3B+ and the Aroio DAC, a cheap plastic enclosure and stock wall-wart. The cable connected to the amp is more expensive than the whole shebang 😉
I'd like to build a linear PSU, ideally on with three outputs: 1x 2.5A for the Raspberry & 2X 1A for the analog and digital sections of the DAC. Haven't found a good example yet and am open to suggestions.
I'd like to build a linear PSU, ideally on with three outputs: 1x 2.5A for the Raspberry & 2X 1A for the analog and digital sections of the DAC. Haven't found a good example yet and am open to suggestions.